Leaders of the pacl

[Rasclomalum]

No HQ choices can have identical wargear. Does this mean that you have violated the rules if you give both a Rune Priest and a Wolf Priest tactical dreadnought armour (and nothing else)? 

 

Two ways of looking at it:

 

1) They have received the exact same upgrade.

2) They still have different wargear courtesy of the WP being armed with a Crozius and the RP being armed with a runic weapon.

 

But which proposition is correct?

[Wulfebane]

The latter.

[Rasclomalum]

Thank you.

[Russ Brother 92]

It only affects two of the same HQ - so 2 RPs in TDA would be illegal, one would require something else (most go for Wolftooth Necklace or Melta Bombs due to cheapness) - whereas having 1 RP and 1 WP it doesn't matter as they're different HQs - it also doesn't affect Unique HQs (Logan, Ragnar etc.) as they're named characters...

[Marshall Bretton]

on this subject actually, if you take for example 2 rp and give them both tda, but you give one a rune sword and the other a rune axe do they count as different given that both are still under the heading runic weapons, but in 6th rules they are actually different weapons with different rules

[dswanick]

on this subject actually, if you take for example 2 rp and give them both tda, but you give one a rune sword and the other a rune axe do they count as different given that both are still under the heading runic weapons, but in 6th rules they are actually different weapons with different rules

They're not different weapons with different rules.  Due to the special close combat rule of wounding daemons on a 2+, all Runic Weapons are "Unusual Force Weapons".  So, by RAW, all Runic Weapons are S User/ AP 3 / Melee plus their own special rule (regardless of their apparent "type")..

[Marshall Bretton]

ah right, my bad, however the point still stands, i will just change the example.

 

so we have 2 wgbl, give them both tda, 1 has a power axe the other a power sword, do they count as different loadouts?

[dswanick]

ah right, my bad, however the point still stands, i will just change the example.

 

so we have 2 wgbl, give them both tda, 1 has a power axe the other a power sword, do they count as different loadouts?

That is debatable, with no clear answer - you'd have to discuss before a game.

[Ragnars Claw]

 

on this subject actually, if you take for example 2 rp and give them both tda, but you give one a rune sword and the other a rune axe do they count as different given that both are still under the heading runic weapons, but in 6th rules they are actually different weapons with different rules

They're not different weapons with different rules.  Due to the special close combat rule of wounding daemons on a 2+, all Runic Weapons are "Unusual Force Weapons".  So, by RAW, all Runic Weapons are S User/ AP 3 / Melee plus their own special rule (regardless of their apparent "type")..

 

Thats not how it's played in UK tournaments.

[dswanick]

 

 

on this subject actually, if you take for example 2 rp and give them both tda, but you give one a rune sword and the other a rune axe do they count as different given that both are still under the heading runic weapons, but in 6th rules they are actually different weapons with different rules

They're not different weapons with different rules.  Due to the special close combat rule of wounding daemons on a 2+, all Runic Weapons are "Unusual Force Weapons".  So, by RAW, all Runic Weapons are S User/ AP 3 / Melee plus their own special rule (regardless of their apparent "type")..

 

Thats not how it's played in UK tournaments.

No, I don't imagine it is.  Look at GW's ruling on Njal's Runic Weapons -

 

"Njal’s staff acts as a runic weapon (stave) that nullifies enemy psychic powers on the roll of a 3+ (see page 36).", C:SW, FAQ

 

So GW clearly wants Njal's staff to be S 6/ AP 4, but because of the written rule in the BRB (pg.60) and Njal's staff having the rule "wounds daemons on a 2+", it is an Unusual Force Weapon by the definition.  Thus it is S User / AP 3 regardless of it being designated by the FAQ as a "Staff".

[Ghostwolfalpha]

I was under the impression that codex faqs supersede brb rules, as the codex is specific while the brb is the baseline for all codexes?

[dswanick]

I was under the impression that codex faqs supersede brb rules, as the codex is specific while the brb is the baseline for all codexes?

Codex > Advanced BRB > Basic BRB (BRB, pg.7).  Erratas/Amendments change an existing rule, while FAQs simply clarify the "proper" interpretation of a "correctly written" rule.

 

As such, nothing about the Amendment alters the Unusual Force Weapons rules.

 

That said, nothing about calling Njal's staff a "Runic Weapon (Stave)" changes the rule that it is an Unusual Force Weapon, thus S User/AP 3.  As Runic Weapons (Staves), Runic Weapons (Axes), and Runic Weapons (Swords) are all S User/AP 3 under the Unusual Force Weapons rules.

 

So the end result is that the Amendment could and should be read to say "Njal’s staff acts as a runic weapon (stave) Unusual Force Weapon that nullifies enemy psychic powers on the roll of a 3+ (see page 36)." since Runic Weapons are Unsual Force Weapons, and his is just an unusual Unusual Force Weapon (layering on the 3+ dispel rule on top of the usual Runic Weapon's 4+ Dispel and 2+ Wounds Daemons rules).

 

In order for Runic Weapons to work they way they obviously want them to, they'd have to release an amendment detailing the various Runic Weapons like they did for Frost Weapons:

• Runic Sword - S User / AP 3 / Melee, Dispel, Daemon-bane
• Runic Axe - S User+1 / AP 2 / Melee, Unwieldy, Dispel, Daemon-bane
• Runic Staff - S User+2 / AP 4 / Melee, Concussive, Dispel, Daemon-bane

[Wulfebane]

I'm just gunna point out.. Njal's staff is a named item (Staff of the Stormcaller) and falls into its own set of unique rules. It should not dictate the rules toward any other runic weapons.

[dswanick]

I'm just gunna point out.. Njal's staff is a named item (Staff of the Stormcaller) and falls into its own set of unique rules. It should not dictate the rules toward any other runic weapons.

Except using that logic, Njal's staff doesn't wound Daemons on a 2+ (as that is only enumerated in the Runic Weapon rules). But it does because it states "Njal’s staff acts as a runic weapon" thus borrowing all the rules for Runic Weapons (including being an Unusual Force Weapon) before layering on its own additional rules.

[Wulfebane]

 

 

I'm just gunna point out.. Njal's staff is a named item (Staff of the Stormcaller) and falls into its own set of unique rules. It should not dictate the rules toward any other runic weapons.

Except using that logic, Njal's staff doesn't wound Daemons on a 2+ (as that is only enumerated in the Runic Weapon rules). But it does because it states "Njal’s staff acts as a runic weapon" thus borrowing all the rules for Runic Weapons (including being an Unusual Force Weapon) before layering on its own additional rules.

 

 

Yes, A = B. B =/= A.

 

Njal's staff acts as a runic weapon. Runic weapons don't act as Njal's staff. His staff shouldn't even be brought into generic runic weapon discussions.

[dswanick]

 

 

I'm just gunna point out.. Njal's staff is a named item (Staff of the Stormcaller) and falls into its own set of unique rules. It should not dictate the rules toward any other runic weapons.

Except using that logic, Njal's staff doesn't wound Daemons on a 2+ (as that is only enumerated in the Runic Weapon rules). But it does because it states "Njal’s staff acts as a runic weapon" thus borrowing all the rules for Runic Weapons (including being an Unusual Force Weapon) before layering on its own additional rules.

 

Yes, A = B. B =/= A.

 

Njal's staff acts as a runic weapon. Runic weapons don't act as Njal's staff. His staff shouldn't even be brought into generic runic weapon discussions.

Ah, now I think I understand what you're saying - Njal's Staff only entered this discussion as an example of how GW imagines that Runic Weapons can have a "type" (Axe, Sword, Staff) when they are clearly all Unusual Force Weapons (and therefore S User / AP 3), because of this question:

 

 

 

on this subject actually, if you take for example 2 rp and give them both tda, but you give one a rune sword and the other a rune axe do they count as different given that both are still under the heading runic weapons, but in 6th rules they are actually different weapons with different rules

They're not different weapons with different rules.  Due to the special close combat rule of wounding daemons on a 2+, all Runic Weapons are "Unusual Force Weapons".  So, by RAW, all Runic Weapons are S User/ AP 3 / Melee plus their own special rule (regardless of their apparent "type")..

[skeletoro]

Yep, its evidence to suggest that RAI is that runic weapons have a type. I don't think anyone is arguing that Njal is evidence of it being RAW.