Monkeychunks Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Hi all, While I'm sure everyone is having fun digesting the new rules, I am very concerned at both the quality and amount of anti-aircraft options available to us. First impressions do not look good on this front, which is a serious damper considering how prevalent aircraft are in a competitive setting. For the purposes of this I am considering Heldrakes, Vendettas and swarms of Scythes as the problems to solve. The likes of Dakkajets or Stormravens don't seem to carry the same amount of bile. From what I've seen, our actual options include: - Lord of Change. A S6 Vector Strike might scratch off a HP from the bigger fliers while simultaneously putting you into the back arc for a Flickering Fire up the tailpipe. Inflicts D3+1 S6 hits followed by a few dice of S5 into the rear, so you stand a fair chance of removing a flier in one pass. Not terribly reliable however. - Slaaneshii Daemon Prince. A very similar idea except the Flickering Fire is replaced with a Lash of Despair and we end up 50pts cheaper. In this case the rear-shots are resolved as S6 and are free from any psychic-damping effects, so it might be better as a pure aircraft-killer. However the LoC obviously brings far more utility and while its both more expensive and less effective, it brings so many other tools that it might be the preferred option. - Soulgrinder. 3 BS3 Autocannon shots are hardly going to scare the opponent, but its better than nothing. I just cannot see this doing any real damage to an AV12 flier because it lacks RoF and accuracy. Might plink the odd HP off but its certainly not going to hinder a determined spam. - Aegis Gun with spare Herald. The default option for everyone except 'Nids, it gives us 4 extremely accurate shots along with an immortal Scoring unit. Certainly works best with Nurgle units because they can afford to be off the front lines. Any other good options available to us? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272896-anti-air-with-the-new-book/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricBasser Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Horrors. With Herald and Loci of Conjuration. Re-rolling to-hit at str 6. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272896-anti-air-with-the-new-book/#findComment-3329824 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Ignoring them is an option especially armies with 3 or less fliers. However playing an army with loads of Vendettas or Nightscythes is only going to be countered directly if you take loads of fliers yourself. No rule book on me but Vector strikes go against rear I think, so that's useful. 4D6 S6 attacks might be useful too. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272896-anti-air-with-the-new-book/#findComment-3329831 Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricBasser Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 I think vector strike is always on the side. All honesty, they are Daemons, and will always get a 5++ or better. Just ignore them and go for their troops. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272896-anti-air-with-the-new-book/#findComment-3329842 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Let's see with Horrors, 20 Herald & Conjuration Loci. 4D6 S6 shots = 14 shots on average 14 shots @ TL'd skyfire = 4.3 hits Hmm, that's less then a single HP on average when firing at AV12. Against AV11, you're looking at 1-1.5 HP per turn on averge. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272896-anti-air-with-the-new-book/#findComment-3330004 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Let's see with Horrors, 20 Herald & Conjuration Loci. 4D6 S6 shots = 14 shots on average 14 shots @ TL'd skyfire = 4.3 hits Hmm, that's less then a single HP on average when firing at AV12. Against AV11, you're looking at 1-1.5 HP per turn on averge. Plus the Heralds 2-3d6 that he does as well :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272896-anti-air-with-the-new-book/#findComment-3330034 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Good point. The herald would add some extra firepower. The whole squad will set you back around 250-300 points depending, for that same price you could afford a pair of Grinders or a single good FMC. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272896-anti-air-with-the-new-book/#findComment-3330046 Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricBasser Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Could do both. This was just talking about anti-air capabilities. All different slots, do could take both. Besides, how good is 3 str 7 shots at bs 3? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272896-anti-air-with-the-new-book/#findComment-3330054 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Could do both. This was just talking about anti-air capabilities. All different slots, do could take both. Besides, how good is 3 str 7 shots at bs 3? I'm not saying one is better than the other, just putting the point values into perspective. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272896-anti-air-with-the-new-book/#findComment-3330057 Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricBasser Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Lol, sorry. Seems like there's too much debating going on this forum. Just becoming a reflex now. :p Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272896-anti-air-with-the-new-book/#findComment-3330059 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Lol, sorry. Seems like there's too much debating going on this forum. Just becoming a reflex now. I know the feeling... As far as how good the grinders are, let's see. We'd get 3 hits between 2 grinders. That's 1 HP per turn against AV12 (50% of the time it will be a pen hit) and 1.5 against AV11. Basically the same as those Horrors. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272896-anti-air-with-the-new-book/#findComment-3330062 Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricBasser Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Yeah. I had a feeling it was about the same. As far as best goes, I think it's a little risky and expensive, but a ML3 Daemon Prince of Slaanesh with Wings, Power Armor, and Lash of Despair. Rolling all powers on Biomancy and hoping for Iron Arm. With Iron Arm it's 2D6 str 7-9 shots. Just not a good range. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272896-anti-air-with-the-new-book/#findComment-3330067 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Allies? Maybe guard with a couple FW anti-air lascannon turrets and a lascannony flier of their own? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272896-anti-air-with-the-new-book/#findComment-3330096 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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