List frustration

[Howland Greywolfe]

GAH, its been so long since I played a game and with a new edition out I have no idea how to do lists anymore. Sure I have played a few games with my guardsmen but then my list just got even better with every edition (Airborne, been doing that since 3rd ed and only now peopl complain).

 

Well, I need advice, whats good now, what sucks, what may work and stuff like that. I love using rhinos, but I hear they suck now and I love using a land raider and a vindicator to lead my spearheads. I also love using wolf guard, but cannot think of a way to use them not in terminator armour. I am thinking of using Bran as my wolf lord since he as great rules and I love his abilities, but I am confused about what happens if he is in a transport (and from what I have read he can outflank with any squad now, just to conferm). Any advice about the metagame now, what the army that everyone is spearheading and the most common tactic now.

[Squark]

The death of mech is greatly exaggerated by a lot of people. Fully mechanized lists are still very competitive (Somewhat less so if your local 'crons players are spamming the crap out of gauss, but aside from that). Penetrating hits from a missile launcher now only have a 1 in 6 chance of killing a vehicle, and stunlocking with glances is no longer possible either. Hull points do reduce long term survivability, but they boost the vehicles effectiveness while under fire significantly until they are actually destroyed. One thing you should be aware of is that is no longer possible to assault out of a non-assault vehicle ever, nor is it possible to jump out of a fast vehicle that moved 12". Given that wolves have counter attack and don't have any fast transports, neither of those nerfs are a huge deal.

 

Bran Redmaw does indeed give the transport outflank, but judging by the ruling for wolf scouts, behind enemy lines will not transfer over to the transport.

[Howland Greywolfe]

Hmm cool to know. And one more thing, are plasma pistols worth it on Wolf Lords and is it worth giving them a 2+ save and a belt of russ or just one or the other?

[IronFather84]

I agree with the above assesement on the mech rules. I like the new system in a lot of ways. Yes you can be glanced to death over all but there is no more vehicle destroyed on a glancing hit anymore. I still use razorbacks and vindicators in my army quite often. WG are not bad in power armor in my opinion. I run them in PA. For instance when using them in the "leader of the pack" role TA can help you soak wounds but it will also stop you form cathing units if they run away. Also term armor has the bulky special rule so they will take up two slots in a vehicle so since they can't deep strike and you want to throw them in a drop pod you can only fit 5. So if you wanted you could do your Bran Redmaw with WG in PA and throw them in a redeemer or crusaider and flank them off the side of the table or something like that. It would kinda cover all those bases so to speak.

[Squark]

Loyalist marines tend to be the majority of the metagame, so not being able to catch enemies isn't that much of a downside in my opinion. Personally, I feel the main advantage of power armor for wolf guard is being able to ride in rhinos. Also, the wound catching thing doesn't actually work without your dice being skewed- Yes, wolf guard terminators have double the chance of making their armor save, but they also cost twice as much, so it's a wash.

 

But frankly, for outflanking with Bran Redmaw, I'd honestly say just stick him with grey hunters- Grey Hunters are very good at outflanking anyway, and they score, which is a big plus.

[Ghostwolfalpha]

Hmm cool to know. And one more thing, are plasma pistols worth it on Wolf Lords and is it worth giving them a 2+ save and a belt of russ or just one or the other?

With challenges being a big part of the game now, an invulnerable save and a 2+ armour is almost required for HQ's, at least to me they are. Its more forgivable if the HQ isn't intended to get into cc, but Wolf Lords can be monsters in cc, so do it up.

 

I agree with everyone when they say that mech isn't dead, you just have to be smart with yout vehicles. Know what you intend to lose and what will be an obvious bullet magnet. If you play a lot of Necrons or Tau, drop pod some threats into their backfield and see how quickly they forget about that rhino rolling up.

 

Where are the rules and such for the different company leaders?

[Squark]

 

Hmm cool to know. And one more thing, are plasma pistols worth it on Wolf Lords and is it worth giving them a 2+ save and a belt of russ or just one or the other?

With challenges being a big part of the game now, an invulnerable save and a 2+ armour is almost required for HQ's, at least to me they are. Its more forgivable if the HQ isn't intended to get into cc, but Wolf Lords can be monsters in cc, so do it up.

 

I agree with everyone when they say that mech isn't dead, you just have to be smart with yout vehicles. Know what you intend to lose and what will be an obvious bullet magnet. If you play a lot of Necrons or Tau, drop pod some threats into their backfield and see how quickly they forget about that rhino rolling up.

 

Where are the rules and such for the different company leaders?

Only Logan Grimnar, Ragnar Blackmane, and Bran Redmaw have their own rules (Logan because he's the Great Wolf, Ragnar because he's the iconic Wolf Lord and I believe the first one who ever got fluffed out, and Bran Redmaw was added in IA 11 because making him just a regular Mark of the Wulfen doesn't really make sense). The rest of the wolf lords just use the vanilla wolf lord table.

 

On plasma pistols, 2+ saves, and Invul saves for wolf lords; Plasma pistols are the same cost as a power weapon for Wolf lords, which rules them out (2 Power weapons means you can choose to have an axe and a  maul/sword, giving you both the AP 2 you need to avoid terminator tarpits, and a weapon that takes advantage of being I5). Runic Armor is generally considered a must for any wolf lord without a Storm Shield, and even then its a good idea. As for the invul save... Storm Shield+Powerfist comes out to the same cost as 2 power weapons and a Belt of Russ. Pick whichever suits you better. As to invul saves for Independent characters- Yes. The only close combat HQ that can get away with skipping it that I can think of is a certain dirty Xenos Overlord, and they've got their own defenses.

[Ghostwolfalpha]

I also agree that a plasma pistol isn't worth it on a Wolf Lord. On a divination Rune Priest, maybe. As with anything, it depends on thr synergy and overall style of your list.

 

For challenges, a Power Fist/Wolf Claw lord is a terrifying opponent, I have also become fond of the Frost Sword/Storm Shield combo if you dont plan to see a ton of 2+ armour saves.

 

Haven't had a ton of success with PA wolf guard as a unit, seeing as Grey hunters do it much cheaper without the customization. Pack leaders where something I didn't use often in 5th ed, but now in 6th, I find it hard to justify not taking them.

[skeletoro]

There really isn't any reason to take a frost sword over a wolf claw (except perhaps if you're using a pistol - but certainly not in conjunction with a storm shield). The wolf claw is cheaper and usually wounds more easily (vs t3, 8/9 vs 5/6, vs t4, 3/4 vs 2/3, vs t5, 5/9 vs 1/2, vs t6, 11/36 vs 1/3, vs t7 11/36 vs 1/6 - so better almost across the board, t6 being a marginal exception).

 

PA wolf guard with power axes and bolt pistols are extremely heavy hitters, but are fragile for their 28 point price tag. In a wolf guard pack they're pretty good but you'd need to put something tougher in front, such as TDA WG. If you keep the PA axe guys at the back and allocate wounds to the TDA guys first, they are a worthwhile option.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Slightly confused by what you were saying.. Are you saying you want a list where you have non terminator armor wolf guard or you do want terminator armor wolf guard? I have always had fun rolling with Logan Grimnar.. and they only HQ I enjoy rolling with more is a Wolf Lord on a Thunderwolf rolling with  other thunderwolf cav. With Logan allowing WG to be taken as troops you could use the WG instead of your GH's. It's a tactic a few guys at the FLGS I go to expressed some interest in... it would definitely add some different flavor to the SW's

I have come to the conclusion (as a new 40k player) that I love tanks. They are cool models and a lot of fun to use... this is the only edition I have played and I really don't feel like using them puts me at a disadvantage. I have found that I really need to pick up some rhinos and razorbacks because my foot slogging troops really need the mobility. Anywho.. lately I have been starting my Land Raider's in reserves has really been turning out well. I'm not really a big fan of long fangs though I do like them and will always take one squad of them. For the other HS slots I am going to be picking up two Vindicators that will fulfill the role of objective denial. Towards the end of the game you could probably start rolling em out and breaking lines but I definitely wouldn't try that at the beginning of the game.

[Ghostwolfalpha]

There really isn't any reason to take a frost sword over a wolf claw (except perhaps if you're using a pistol - but certainly not in conjunction with a storm shield). The wolf claw is cheaper and usually wounds more easily (vs t3, 8/9 vs 5/6, vs t4, 3/4 vs 2/3, vs t5, 5/9 vs 1/2, vs t6, 11/36 vs 1/3, vs t7 11/36 vs 1/6 - so better almost across the board, t6 being a marginal exception).

I failed to mention that the Frost Sword and Storm Shield are on a thunderwolf mounted HQ. Its helps to instant kill T3 characters and wound MC's as I play a lot of IG and CSM. The wolf claw is never a bad option unless your fighting 2+ heavy armies. Although, the Wolf Claw is seeming better now.

[Howland Greywolfe]

Well here is the list I came up with with your advice (and reading loads of other stuff ealse were)

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272965-first-list-in-a-long-time/

 

Tell me what you think here or there.

[Guest Drunk Guardian]

Frost Sword on a thunderwolf mount is a LOT better than a frost sword on foot.

 

Also, wolf claws are most effective on thunderwolf cavalry, since they'll almost always be rolling a 4+ to hit, where a Wolf Lord will frequently (if not always) be rolling a 3+.