Dark Angels: Army Options and Viability?

[Eulfein]

Greetings Brothers! I am a new Dark Angels player (currently building a Ravenwing Dakka-banner army) and I was wondering if the Deathwing-Ravenwing combo armies of old are still viable? If not then how come? I noticed 2 distinct armies being fielded by fellow Inner Circle brethren in the forum (most players in the forum anyway): Ravenwing armies and Gunline armies. 

 

So I beg to ask: whats wrong with the deathwing? 

 

Thanks brothers!

[Jehoel]

Nothing is wrong with Deathwing. Everyone is enjoying the new strength of the Ravenwing and greenwing forces after to long a time as a mono-build codex is all.

[Eulfein]

ah I see... thank you for the clarification brother! If that's the case is the "Deathraven" army build still viable? which HQ choice is best for that army configuration?

[Jehoel]

I would say that it depends on how balanced you want your Deathwing/RavenWing elements to be. If you do a Deathwing supported by Ravenwing, then Beliel is the better choice to me. Sammiel is better when Ravenwing is the primary element. Myself, I'm working on a Ravenwing/greenwing list loosely based on the Ravenwing novel. Soooo many options now.

[Eulfein]

I know! the codex was the BEST present I ever got from my wife! I'll try putting together a Ravenwing-centric Deathraven army (I'm rather partial to Sammael) and I'll post it on the Army List  thread!

 

Thanks again brother! For the Lion!

[Nemo vas Varya]

I personally, having come from Ravenwing in the old codex, falling in love with a full blown mixed wing... plus with my attempt to bring to the table the close working relationship the DA have with their successors, a mixed wing serves me better.

 

Currently, I am running to Ravenwing squads, a Ravenwing Support Sqd of 2 Speeders, 2 Termie squads, 2 tacitcal squads, and 2 Dev sqauds with 2x FOC, with Azrael, Chapter Master Unnamed (WIll be the Chapter Master of my fluff chapter using the Company Master... yaay for fluff driving me to ineffective choices? :-p) and two librarians, one from each chapter.

 

Right now the Devs are from Chapter 2 (Name is still in works, working names are Angels of St. Dinael, Angel's Vesper, or whatever I think of later....) with one librarian and the 'chapter master' in the other chapter scheme. One squad of termies will be as well. I am planning on leaving my Ravenwing pure DA though, although that may change.

[Bomber]

One of the things I like best about 6E Dark Angels is that every aspect of the codex is balanced and well thought out.  You can do anything you want and essentially get what you want out of it.  I'm reasonably new to Dark Angels from play aspect but been working on them for a while to get what I wanted.  The codex update gave me much more options that I didn't have before.  You can do pure Deathwing, Ravenwing or Greenwing .  All three are VERY viable and competitive if you balance your wargear right.  You can also mix any of the above and only get better.  I started with intent to do pure Deathwing.  Something about dropping terminators on the table and having your opponent sigh and "let the games begin".  The new codex I am going to run a mixed wing with Deathwing and Greenwing support.  It's really hard to make a horrible list with DA right now.  

[Aleax]

One of the things I like best about 6E Dark Angels is that every aspect of the codex is balanced and well thought out.  You can do anything you want and essentially get what you want out of it.  I'm reasonably new to Dark Angels from play aspect but been working on them for a while to get what I wanted.  The codex update gave me much more options that I didn't have before.  You can do pure Deathwing, Ravenwing or Greenwing .  All three are VERY viable and competitive if you balance your wargear right.  You can also mix any of the above and only get better.  I started with intent to do pure Deathwing.  Something about dropping terminators on the table and having your opponent sigh and "let the games begin".  The new codex I am going to run a mixed wing with Deathwing and Greenwing support.  It's really hard to make a horrible list with DA right now.  

The codex is pretty solid, rule-wise. I am surprised I can make a list with tactical marines and get a competitive list. And as I like to even have more troops, I can save points on the HQ and only take a Techmarine for cheap. The marines come with stubborn, and not auto-fall backing, which is an Ultramarine thing so this is, fluff-wise, pretty good. Now I am not sold on plasma loads everywhere in the new codex fluff-wise, but it makes the codex threatening for the opponent nonetheless. So yes, DA lists can be made even more scary now.

 

As for the OP, to me DW is as fragile as ever, but their power weapons can make them earn their points back, against power armoured opponents. Problem against horde armies then? Whirlwinds help a lot. I am not sold on this, but this may work, or will work against most opponents anyways...

 

Cheers.

[Rizara]

Deathwing terminators still suffer from what they have always suffered from, and that is small arms fire.  They actually gained numbers in bodies, and lots of useful abilities such as death wing assault, the ability when they deathwing assault ot twin link their weapons and of course split fire.   With the newest edition, AP2 has become the bane of everyone it seems and everyone is reaching for plasma weapons.    DW termies still have to fear them, as they make them rely on the ever so inadequate 5++ save.  

All in all, Dark angels have always been a plasma loving army, we just got a massive boost to this plasma love, that it seeps in all our units, even our DW termies and Ravenwing.   Across the Board, the dark angels became better overall, and cheaper in alot of major areas.   All Ravenwing and DW lists are still as solid as ever, and DW/Ravenwing lists work great.   The advantage that we got this codex is that we can take what we want, and not feel their are mandatory lists we have to take to field a workable army.  Mixxed wing seems to shine in all around lists, but if your not too careful you can find you run out of points really fast to take everything you want. 

 

While I personally have only played two games in 6th and only one with the dark angels, they aren't a bad army.   They have anti flyers if you want it, anti troops, anti tanks, lots of character, and unique units you will get no where else.   We even have units that really stick it to chaos, but we can easily hold our own against every army.  As mentioned, everything is viable, and you aren't limited to specific options like the last codex to field a viable dark angels army.  

[ForTheLion]

Sadly i feel that any non-pure-ravenwing army is no longer tournament competitive...i have been playing this game since 4th ed, and have been to most major and minor tournaments and where as in the previous edition deathwing THSSCML spam made it to the top, this edition it has no chance in the current meta. This is also reflected in the majr US tournaments where you dont see DA with termie or greenwing builds (even though i myself am skeptical abt greenwing) reching any top places...

Having said that Ravenwing (dakkabanner lists) seem to be all over the peaks of tournaments, personaly out of the 40 or so games ive played with pure ravenwing (new codex) i must have won 90%....

So yeah in my humble opinion Deathraven is just too expensive...where as pure raven is win....pure deathwing is also too expensive

[Artemid]

I actually really liked the hammernator list out of coolness. I've had a lot lot of trouble getting a good DW list together because yes, they got better, but the price increase of them AND their back line fire support breaks the bank. If you go for more bodies you don't get any of the good to play with, or you have the goodies and fewer bodies with none of the back line either way in my experience.

[supercrazy05]

I can only talk from my own perspective from the few games I have played in both 6TH and with the Dark Angels Period.

 

I dont think pure DW is going to be viable at all. Just not enough bodies on the map. I think if you want to run them you are going to have to add at least a few parts from GW and RW.

 

Im running a 2000 pt list in a 16 Man tournament this weekend. My support will be a 5 man Tac Squad with Plasma Gun to help run my Aegis, 2 3 man RAS squads with Meltas, Plasma and Melta Bombs and a Dark Shroud. Just enough bodies to help get my DSing termies where they need to be.

[Tiger9gamer]

or you can have some heavy weapon squads in back/Away from the action to shoot some plasma or CML, while the Assault cannons and hammers land near the line.

[Nemo vas Varya]

Deathwing terminators still suffer from what they have always suffered from, and that is small arms fire.  They actually gained numbers in bodies, and lots of useful abilities such as death wing assault, the ability when they deathwing assault ot twin link their weapons and of course split fire.   With the newest edition, AP2 has become the bane of everyone it seems and everyone is reaching for plasma weapons.    DW termies still have to fear them, as they make them rely on the ever so inadequate 5++ save.  

All in all, Dark angels have always been a plasma loving army, we just got a massive boost to this plasma love, that it seeps in all our units, even our DW termies and Ravenwing.   Across the Board, the dark angels became better overall, and cheaper in alot of major areas.   All Ravenwing and DW lists are still as solid as ever, and DW/Ravenwing lists work great.   The advantage that we got this codex is that we can take what we want, and not feel their are mandatory lists we have to take to field a workable army.  Mixxed wing seems to shine in all around lists, but if your not too careful you can find you run out of points really fast to take everything you want. 

 

While I personally have only played two games in 6th and only one with the dark angels, they aren't a bad army.   They have anti flyers if you want it, anti troops, anti tanks, lots of character, and unique units you will get no where else.   We even have units that really stick it to chaos, but we can easily hold our own against every army.  As mentioned, everything is viable, and you aren't limited to specific options like the last codex to field a viable dark angels army.  

 

Yes, it is very easy to run out of points now. Of course I make it harder and play with four HQs at 2000 and 2500. (Two librarians with prescience and infravisors+power field baby sitting Devestators, and Azrael and a Inter Chap/Company Master running up the field with a tactical squad... lots of fun, but almost 1/3rd of my points are tied up in HQs... but everyone is hating my devestators with 3+/4++ Prescience, and sometimes Perfect Timing, ignore night fighting, and without a lot of long range blind stuff right now. B E A utiful.

 

Played a Chaos Marine dude the other day who was very sad to see all his Heldrakes die in one turn. They arrived, prescienced MLs with Skyfire murder one, Azraels tactical squad sitting on Skyfire nexus objective murder the other with Azraels Combi-Plasma, and the other Dev squad, prescienced, managed to knock it out of the sky with Las-cannons on snap fire.

 

He was furious. I was laughing. He did not see what was so funny. Then my two ravenwing assault squads outflanked and murdered the cultists he had comping objectives, while his marines and other stuff got murdered in the mid field by a lot of bolter fire, and devastator fire.

 

Long story short, Dark Angels can bring a TON of firepower to the table now, even before the dakka banner is considered. Stick a Dakkabanner in a Ravenwing command squad, and you can dakka your entire list. Start on one side of the table, fire all that is in the bubble, then turboboost your RCS, moving the dakka bubble, and fire with the rest of your army. You can EASILY put out 100-150 bolter shots a round.

[march10k]

What's your points level?  I'm still loving my mechanized deathwing list from the previous edition, with modifications:

 

Now I'm fielding two crusaders.  One has belial plus assaulty termies, the other has knights.  Both are venerable, and in the tourney version, one has a 4++ shield-bearing techmarine on board.  Those two deploy second to see where the enemy's antitank strength is before they place, then haul ass straight at a flank...on turn two, two tactical termie squads DWA without scatter and hose the enemy down along with the crusaders, and the fighty termies sweep in to clean up the mess.  Easily wipes 1/3 of the enemy army in one turn, after the enemy has two turns of nothing but two AV14 targets to shoot at...in the nasty version AV14, venerable, 4+ save targets!  Deathwing is still super viable, you just need to go second and combine the most impregnable tank in the non-APOC game with scatter-free, reserve-roll-free deepstrikers to achieve local superiority (1850 points against 5-600) to pretty much end the game on the bottom of turn 2.  There's pretty much no enemy deathstar that can handle eight knights, five assault termies, and belial, especially after having eaten four ass cannons, twinlinked, eight stormbolters, twinlinked, and four hurri-bolters first, so it's best to drive that pair of crusaders right into the enemy's strength!

[Onisuzume]

So I beg to ask: whats wrong with the deathwing?

We're getting only 5/6th the models at 1.5k points as with the old codex.

That said, the addition of Virtus in Extremis banner makes them much more viable when deployed en-masse (really, who wouldn't hate 26 terminators with FNP?).

 

As for greenwing, how is some 81 bodies at 1.5k points not viable?