Billuriye Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 deus: is not that, is the fact that for some fans if you are not a sociopath who kill and do things badass almost every single second then the charater is weak, just look kratos of god fo war, the fan then to downplay the fact that he is pretty much a murder psychopath to dosent understand that rip everyone maybe is not the answer, Anyone likes Kratos? He's an ugly written character. Besides, killing yourself just to make the pain go away is weak stuff. I can respect suicide from boredom, logical reasons, fun but not despair. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272932-the-end-of-corax/page/4/#findComment-3332737 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deus Imperator Vult Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 deus: is not that, is the fact that for some fans if you are not a sociopath who kill and do things badass almost every single second then the charater is weak, just look kratos of god fo war, the fan then to downplay the fact that he is pretty much a murder psychopath to dosent understand that rip everyone maybe is not the answer, Anyone likes Kratos? He's an ugly written character. Besides, killing yourself just to make the pain go away is weak stuff. I can respect suicide from boredom, logical reasons, fun but not despair. I have a soft spot in my heart for him just cause in each game he just has a name to yell 'ARRRRREEEEEEESSSSS' ZEEEEEEEUUUUUUUSSSSS!' but he is an awfully written character. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272932-the-end-of-corax/page/4/#findComment-3332742 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratboy1664 Posted March 21, 2013 Author Share Posted March 21, 2013 Right, this thread has totally deviated from my origional post and has turned into a personal slanging match. I thought the B+C was better than that and I hoped for a rational argument both for and against Corax commiting suicide. You let me down brothers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272932-the-end-of-corax/page/4/#findComment-3332882 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deus Imperator Vult Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Apologies Brother, I have a very short attention span. Personally I feel like it would me a massive kick in the teeth if they did that to Corax especially since he's probably been one of the best written Primarchs thus far. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272932-the-end-of-corax/page/4/#findComment-3332890 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Right, this thread has totally deviated from my origional post and has turned into a personal slanging match. I thought the B+C was better than that and I hoped for a rational argument both for and against Corax commiting suicide. You let me down brothers. Meh, frankly its a rather 1 dimensional topic. You either think its in character or you dont. There isnt really any room for debate as its just personal interpretation, and expecting serious debate from this is a little naive. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272932-the-end-of-corax/page/4/#findComment-3332962 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Right, this thread has totally deviated from my origional post and has turned into a personal slanging match. I thought the B+C was better than that and I hoped for a rational argument both for and against Corax commiting suicide. You let me down brothers. Edit: Oh crap, there is an insult in this thread. Sorry about not spotting it. Seems like you're right. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272932-the-end-of-corax/page/4/#findComment-3332983 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durfast Spiritwolf Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 dursfast: well i curze stay in his way of thinking, he know that by the imperial law that he enforce, he have to be kill, he know that he is gulty and that they will use his method to enfocer that, in the end he wins, ia twisted way of think:he is a compleate monster to thinks that you ones like him to enforce de law and in the end the imperium prove him right I think we pretty much agree, but I would argue that Curze's focus is terror rather than judging and killing. I think that he believes a peaceful society only exists when everyone is too terrified to break the rules. So he takes monstrous actions for cold, logical reasons and deplores the hypocrisy of those that criticise him, including the Emperor. His assassination/murder/judgment proves the hypocrisy and validates his methodology. In the same way Russ plays the barbarian chief, Curze plays the unstable vigilante. Vesper, smileys always help :) Ratboy, sorry if we didn't dance in the way you wanted, but we are all here by choice ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272932-the-end-of-corax/page/4/#findComment-3332985 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratboy1664 Posted March 22, 2013 Author Share Posted March 22, 2013 OK so in 30k we know Gods are real. Would suicide be a mortal sin as it is in todays Catholicism and if so what would happen to his soul? Would he commit suicide if he believed there was a chance his soul could rejuvenate his father and get him up off the golden throne (a bit like a jump start in a car) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272932-the-end-of-corax/page/4/#findComment-3333074 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durfast Spiritwolf Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 OK so in 30k we know Gods are real. Would suicide be a mortal sin as it is in todays Catholicism and if so what would happen to his soul? Would he commit suicide if he believed there was a chance his soul could rejuvenate his father and get him up off the golden throne (a bit like a jump start in a car) You insult everyone in the thread and then expect more responses to your ruminations? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272932-the-end-of-corax/page/4/#findComment-3333095 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deus Imperator Vult Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 OK so in 30k we know Gods are real. Would suicide be a mortal sin as it is in todays Catholicism and if so what would happen to his soul? Would he commit suicide if he believed there was a chance his soul could rejuvenate his father and get him up off the golden throne (a bit like a jump start in a car) Do we? The only Primarchs who 'know gods are real' are a handful of the traitors and even some of them are still doubting 'in the name of the gods you claim are real' Angron Butchers Nails. The Imperium was still largly secular at the time and the Primarchs definitely were the only one who showed any religious behavior before they eye or terror was Lorgar *cough* the weakest of them *cough cough*. So would it be a mortal sin? No but every Primarch was created with a strong sense of martial honour and pride so the idea of suicide would be abhorrent to them. Even Curze, arguably the most damaged of them, doesn't shoot himself he allows an assassin to do it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272932-the-end-of-corax/page/4/#findComment-3333096 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 I actually retract my statement about suicide out of despair being weak stuff for Primarchs. Apparently when a Primarch bond with his people and fails them in return, he becomes unstable or worse suicidal. We see that with Fulgrim who begs for a quick relief after seeing his legion for what it became and killing his brother, Magnus who lashes out in a final desperate moment to save his sons, Angron who is not Angron after failing to die along his brothers and sisters, Lorgar who commits heresy from fear of his legion being destroyed ( as much as he claims he does that out of search for truth ), Sanguinius, who nearly takes what daemon offers to him to prevent his sons getting degenerated or worse killed etc. Seems like you had a valid point Ratboy1664. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272932-the-end-of-corax/page/4/#findComment-3333101 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Lorgar was the only religous Primarch? So...Russ's Legion believes in Uppland, the Underverse, trains Priests, and thinks venerates the Emperor as the Allfather who gathers the souls of the honored dead to fight by his side at the end of time. But they have no religion. Also, Rune Priests don't violate the Edict of Nikea. As for the weakest, Lorgar wasn't one who could be doubled by every member of his Legion that was above average heighth. Back to Corax...the Chaos Gods certainly don't run on the morality of Catholicism, the only one that would consider suicide a bad thing is Nurgle. Khorne cares not from where the blood flows and Slaanesh teaches one should revel in every sensation, including their own death. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272932-the-end-of-corax/page/4/#findComment-3333161 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deus Imperator Vult Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Lorgar was the only religous Primarch? So...Russ's Legion believes in Uppland, the Underverse, trains Priests, and thinks venerates the Emperor as the Allfather who gathers the souls of the honored dead to fight by his side at the end of time. But they have no religion. Also, Rune Priests don't violate the Edict of Nikea. As for the weakest, Lorgar wasn't one who could be doubled by every member of his Legion that was above average heighth. Back to Corax...the Chaos Gods certainly don't run on the morality of Catholicism, the only one that would consider suicide a bad thing is Nurgle. Khorne cares not from where the blood flows and Slaanesh teaches one should revel in every sensation, including their own death. I was not implying that any of the religions of 41k run on the morality of Catholicism. He was, other Primarchs venerated him in their own way sure but it was Lorgar who wrote the Leticio Divinitatus, it was Lorgar who got chastised by the Emperor for making planets worship him and idolised a mortal as a saint. As far as the weakest goes those were Angrons words and unless I am misremembering Lorgar even thinks it himself when he goes after the other Primarchs at Isstvan. You won't hear me say anything complimentary about Alpherus but atleast he plays to his strengths Lorgars strengths pre-EoT were... preaching. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272932-the-end-of-corax/page/4/#findComment-3333285 Share on other sites More sharing options...
yhta Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 the chaos gods dosent like suicide because it stop is plaything for amuse then, in one history a luna wolf make a promise to the dark gods to kill is friend and imperial fist and to every single marine made with his geneseed, centurys later he is tired and annoy by the gods who just him, in try to fight in the next imperial fist and kill him, only to fing out that when the sword past his chest i was still alive and his body fight by his own, remenber well this: chaos dosent want to win, just want to play with you...forever For then, you are pretty much just a mini in a wargame(and yes that is a very scary thought) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272932-the-end-of-corax/page/4/#findComment-3334834 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon2027 Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 If Corax feels the need to die, then I rather he went to the EoT to fight, the honourable death as it were. Why was he so depressed. Maybe he thought if he had not been so rash with genetic experiments he could have been there at Terra, maybe he will realise that the Alpha Legion stole the emperors (and his) work, which will somehow impact on the final outcome, sending him into a shame spiral. I would like to add that in the IA the RG appear in, there is a line suggesting that he is fact frozen in status until the emperor forgives him. So who knows what crazy shizzle will happen to Corax. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272932-the-end-of-corax/page/4/#findComment-3335623 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathwatch/Grey knight Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 But primarchs aren't the same (on emo level after emp's death)...Russ went bezerk in the great scouring, Guiliman tried to heal IoM, Dorn was self punishing and Corax went to depression...Like people, they all respond differently when going trough shock... I don't know what you mean Russ went beserk last time I checked he went straight back to fenris said goodbye to his sons and left with his honour guard all except one to go find the forbidden tree In the eot that has fruit that can save the emperor Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272932-the-end-of-corax/page/4/#findComment-3338145 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 Lorgar was the only religous Primarch? So...Russ's Legion believes in Uppland, the Underverse, trains Priests, and thinks venerates the Emperor as the Allfather who gathers the souls of the honored dead to fight by his side at the end of time. But they have no religion. Also, Rune Priests don't violate the Edict of Nikea. As for the weakest, Lorgar wasn't one who could be doubled by every member of his Legion that was above average heighth. Back to Corax...the Chaos Gods certainly don't run on the morality of Catholicism, the only one that would consider suicide a bad thing is Nurgle. Khorne cares not from where the blood flows and Slaanesh teaches one should revel in every sensation, including their own death. Splitting hairs but they are pretty big hairs IMO I feel the space wolves are spiritual vs religious. The Space Wolves' beliefs do not require others to believe. Both religions the Word Bearers follow(ed) do. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272932-the-end-of-corax/page/4/#findComment-3338172 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathwatch/Grey knight Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 If Corax feels the need to die, then I rather he went to the EoT to fight, the honourable death as it were. Why was he so depressed. Maybe he thought if he had not been so rash with genetic experiments he could have been there at Terra, maybe he will realise that the Alpha Legion stole the emperors (and his) work, which will somehow impact on the final outcome, sending him into a shame spiral. I would like to add that in the IA the RG appear in, there is a line suggesting that he is fact frozen in status until the emperor forgives him. So who knows what crazy shizzle will happen to Corax. That would be the case in the old fluff But now I don't think so I mean they discovered the alpha legion at the end of deliverance lost dont you think corax would be smart enough to put the pieces together And you guys have gotten it all wrong for example even if he had enough numbers to go to terra he wouldn't have made it cause of the warp storm that would've stopped him The old fluff said after the battle of terra he agreed with guilliman cause he had no choice then he went back to deliverance ( I remember their was a story about the space wolves witnessing the raven guards witnessing the mutated raven guard in battle with traitors I forgot what they called the story though? And I don't know what time frame that happened Anyway when corax went to deliverance he gave the mutated the emperors peace ( killed them) cause he blamed himself that his sons became that way he said he was sorry and killed them but after he did that he hated himself because it was wrong the mutants followed his orders and were loyal to him so he locked himself in the tower for a year and came out and said nevermore which I remember reading that means ravenspire or raven guard in his language Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272932-the-end-of-corax/page/4/#findComment-3338221 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deus Imperator Vult Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 But now I don't think so I mean they discovered the alpha legion at the end of deliverance lost dont you think corax would be smart enough to put the pieces together Personally I would love a book, novella, short story Throne even just a paragraph of Corax brutally torturing an Alpha Legionare. You know tearing out its pergonoid, cutting off limbs, striping it of its armour then pointing at its crotch while Agapito takes a pict. I don't think 'nevermore' was ever supposed to be Khiovarian language it was more of an obvious hat tilt to Poe's story that basically inspired the whole legion. I still think that yes he would have been upset, yes he has appeared to be one of the more human Primarchs, but I still cant see him casting himself from the Ravenspire or eating a lascannon (i dont think a bolt pistol would do it) shot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272932-the-end-of-corax/page/4/#findComment-3338351 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathwatch/Grey knight Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 I'm not saying that I honestly hate the traitors that say he will do suicide he's not a guardsmen for Chris sake I forgot to add my theory hopefully BL are smart to figure it out or hopefully do something similar My theory is after a year of secluding himself he finially figures out what to do...... Hunt down alpharius which might be mission impossible for someone else but this is corax the primarch who can be right in front of your eyes without you knowing the. The only person who corax couldn't hide from is Vulcan ( that's just a theory after reading angel exterminatus). So corax could or will be hiding in every single alpha legion warband to get clues on the whereabouts of alpharius which I think is pretty good idea What do you think Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272932-the-end-of-corax/page/4/#findComment-3338504 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legionator Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 I'm not saying that I honestly hate the traitors that say he will do suicide he's not a guardsmen for Chris sake I forgot to add my theory hopefully BL are smart to figure it out or hopefully do something similar My theory is after a year of secluding himself he finially figures out what to do...... Hunt down alpharius which might be mission impossible for someone else but this is corax the primarch who can be right in front of your eyes without you knowing the. The only person who corax couldn't hide from is Vulcan ( that's just a theory after reading angel exterminatus). So corax could or will be hiding in every single alpha legion warband to get clues on the whereabouts of alpharius which I think is pretty good idea What do you think Wasn't Alpharius known to be killed by Guilliman? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272932-the-end-of-corax/page/4/#findComment-3339258 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksad Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 he's likely to have killed someone looking like Alpharius, yes. then again, so did everyone and their dog. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272932-the-end-of-corax/page/4/#findComment-3339287 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathwatch/Grey knight Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 I'm not saying that I honestly hate the traitors that say he will do suicide he's not a guardsmen for Chris sake I forgot to add my theory hopefully BL are smart to figure it out or hopefully do something similar My theory is after a year of secluding himself he finially figures out what to do...... Hunt down alpharius which might be mission impossible for someone else but this is corax the primarch who can be right in front of your eyes without you knowing the. The only person who corax couldn't hide from is Vulcan ( that's just a theory after reading angel exterminatus). So corax could or will be hiding in every single alpha legion warband to get clues on the whereabouts of alpharius which I think is pretty good idea What do you think Wasn't Alpharius known to be killed by Guilliman? Apparently but the ultramarines know no knowledge of this battle especially when in stead of falling Down on their knees like any other legions would if they lost their primarch they attacked like they didn't notice it so guilliman surprised at this called a retreat cause he knew he lost and guessed that he didn't kill alpharius at all and as I said before the ultramarines don't acknowledge this battle that's why you hear speculations of that it was omegon and his marines were the ultramarines Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272932-the-end-of-corax/page/4/#findComment-3339455 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deus Imperator Vult Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Because Alpherus can't even stand his ground against one of his brothers... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272932-the-end-of-corax/page/4/#findComment-3339586 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Hadafix Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Because Alpherus can't even stand his ground against one of his brothers... Which Alpharius are we talking about? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272932-the-end-of-corax/page/4/#findComment-3339608 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.