number6 Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Because people wondering how a walking dreadknight can possibly be worth it, here are the promised batreps. Got back from my 5th annual trip to Con of the North in St Paul. Once again, I was blown away by the quality of the terrain and armies. And for the first time since 2008, I took my GKs. Back then -- at the dawn of 5th edition with the Daemonhunters -- I won all three games and was just 2 points shy of winning it all, somehow losing out to the guy I beat in my 2nd game. (He maxed out on paint and theme, whereas I only got middling points for those.) I did win Best Sportsman, however. So I had high hopes for this tournament. After all, I had a newly improved and clearly overpowered codex, right? This year the points limit was 1750. Here's what I took. Inquisitor: TDA, psycannon, daemonhammer, servo skull, psyker (always Prescience) 10 Terminators: psycannon, incinerator, 5 halberds, 4 daemonhammers, justicar w/halberd 10 GK Strikers: 2 psycannons, daemonhammer, justicar w/halberd Razorback: psybolts 10 GK Strikers: 2 psycannons, daemonhammer, justicar w/halberd Razorback: psybolts Stormraven: TLLC, TLMM Dreadknight: heavy incinerator Dreadnought: 2x TLAC, psybolts Dreadnought: 2x TLAC, psybolts http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd136/number61971/CotN%202013/8876A1D5-792A-4A3F-AF04-5EFB123226CE-7464-000008022F5DB016_zps33d3d789.jpg http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd136/number61971/CotN%202013/6D5CDD2B-606B-4025-A11B-604E193FF7D3-7464-0000080236AA6201_zps10a8b262.jpg http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd136/number61971/CotN%202013/B750203A-2184-4F1A-8EAF-AC071783D8BE-7464-000008023E3F0183_zpse4641a69.jpg I invariably combat-squadded all my GKs. 5 termies -- including justicar and incinerator -- rode in the stormraven. The other 5 were joined by the Inquisitor and footslogged for dominating mobile firepower. For each strike squad, 2 psycannons and 3 normal dudes would deploy as a firebase while the justicar, hammer, and remaining dudes would ride in a razorback as a mobile combat/interception unit. The dreadknight would deploy or deep strike from reserves as needed. ++++++++++ Game 1: Orks Nob Bikers with flyer support, the same guy I played last year in game 3 (my 'nids vs his GKs) Warboss: attack squig, bosspole, cybork, power klaw, bike Wazdakka 8 Nob Bikers: cyborks, bosspole, 2 power klaws, 1 big choppa, painboy 9 Warbikers: nob w/bosspole, power klaw 9 Warbikers: nob w/bosspole, power klaw Dakkajet Dakkajet Blitza-bommer The primary mission was Purge the Alien: 1 VP per unit destroyed. Secondary missions were the usual ones from the BRB, 1 VP each for First Blood, Slay the Warlord, and Linebreaker. Most VPs wins the game. Vanguard deployment. The table was dense with terrain, lots of forested hills and a few ruins. I won the rolls both for table side and first turn. I deployed my Striker firebases centrally on a hill, flanked on both sides with the razorbacks. Inquisitor Quixote's unit went on my left, the dreadknight on the right, both of them to the outside of the razorbacks and in front of the dreadnoughts. My opponent put both HQs in the nob biker unit on my left, a biker unit in the center close to the nobs, and the other biker unit somewhat out on my right flank. He failed to seize the initiative. Turn 1 A quick turn for both of us since he deployed just far enough back to guarantee I couldn't shoot at him with my short-ranged GK weaponry. I zipped both razorbacks forward, turned them sideways, and popped smoke, forming a narrow choke point through which was the only space he could run his bikes without taking dangerous terrain tests. It also guaranteed that he couldn't charge me any earlier than his 2nd turn. Since Quixote couldn't hit anything, I just shuttled him sideways to make room for the dreadnought to get a clean line of fire to the warboss and Wazdakka. Both dreads took shots at the Nobs and a couple of bikes were killed. http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd136/number61971/CotN%202013/8D7FEAD6-DFBB-4D54-AD1E-35FBEC9157CF-7464-0000080212F060D1_zps3908abd3.jpg On his turn he decided that the meatiest targets and fastest route to close combat was through my choke point, so he pushed the nobs as far as he could get, letting the nearby bike unit keep pace. The bikers on my right flank turbo-boosted forward. He poured an immense amount of fire into the razorback on my left, and by rights he should have gotten First Blood. But I made just enough cover saves to leave the vehicle with a single hull point, sparing the combat squad inside from certain destruction. Turn 2 I effectively won the game on this turn. My stormraven arrived from reserves, hovering, and disembarked the GKTs in front of the bikers on my right flank. I moved the dreadknight into the razorback gap, ready to assault the nobs. Quixote moved forward into an advantageous firing position, as did the dreadnoughts. Both combat squads disembarked from the razorbacks. The dreadknight flamed a few nobs dead. Both firebase units killed a couple more and put two wounds on the warboss. Quixote's unit and the leftmost combat squad killed a few more nobs, taking the painboy, too. Both dreadnoughts fired into the unit, killing all but three of the nobs. The stormraven hit the warboss with both weapons, one of which was Look-out-sir'd onto a hapless nob, but the other one wasn't pawned off, and the warboss was smoked. Despite the carnage, Wazdakka stuck around. Meanwhile, the rightmost combat squad and the disembarked GKTs incinerated and shot up the bikers on the right flank, killing the nob and 4 others, causing them to flee. The dreadknight then charged Wazdakka and the nob remnants and challenged. Wazdakka refused and got to watch his buddies get splatted hard. He turned tail and ran right into the midst of the other biker unit, the dreadknight consolidating in hot pursuit. http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd136/number61971/CotN%202013/3542D898-0F4A-4086-B955-8AF3C2B985D7-7464-00000802196E54BF_zpse9cca1ea.jpg Fortunately for my opponent, all three of his Ork planes arrived from reserves. Wazdakka also rallied and joined the biker unit. The other biker unit also rallied. Unfortunately, there just wasn't much he could do. He did manage to dakka glance my stormraven into wreckage and kill two GKs from one of my firebase units, but that was it. Turn 3 Mop up time. The razorback on my left tank-shocked Wazdakka's unit into a convenient formation for the dreadknight to incinerate, killing 6 bikers in one go. The razorback on my right immobilized itself on the forested hill trying to pursue the other biker unit, so settled for taking potshots at a dakkajet. Quixote and a dreadnought combined to explode the blitza-bomma. The other GKTs killed two of the four remaining bikers from the unit that regrouped last turn. They failed morale again and tried to run off the table but only rolled 3". Everybody else took two hull points off of a dakka jet. Then the dreadknight charged Wazdakka and Co. and challenged. This time my opponent gamely accepted and let me pulverize him good. The bikers were crazy brave, however, and decided to stick around. http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd136/number61971/CotN%202013/D53F7C98-D893-40CD-B83B-207BA122893B-7464-0000080220767B24_zps9e29601f.jpg On my opponent's half of the turn, his bikers rallied but had nothing they could do, stranded deep in his deployment zone and restricted to snap shots. His other bikers were gonna get squished, and he otherwise he had just two dakka jets remaining to him. The planes flew to my right and tried to punk the GKTs, but their TDA was proof against their fire. The dreadknight slaughtered the remaining bikers and meandered over toward the last two bikers on the table. Turn 4 The dreadknight incinerates the bikers, and the rest of my army downs the dakka jets. Wipeout. Maximum battle points to me. http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd136/number61971/CotN%202013/72CE7139-BE93-4D9A-8B5F-4E33B9A315D5-7464-00000802270E7BE8_zps2c7e76ed.jpg Game 2 report to come.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272942-2013-con-of-the-north-batreps/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 What I find most impressive is that the right-hand bikers moved 24" toward your table edge, leaving them 24" away. Then you were able to arrive from reserves, move and disembark 12" onto the board and be within incinerator range, despite them being well out of range by at least 4+" Did you actually come on from your table edge (the short board edge) or did you do it wrong and come on from the long table edge? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272942-2013-con-of-the-north-batreps/#findComment-3330507 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 Vanguard deployment. You use the long table edge. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272942-2013-con-of-the-north-batreps/#findComment-3330509 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Oh poo, I was thinking Hammer and Anvil and really getting confused with the picture, haha. Doi. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272942-2013-con-of-the-north-batreps/#findComment-3330516 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 So, where was I...? Oh yes. Game 2: Necrons w/Ork Allies My first ever game against Clay McCarty and one of his oh-so-pretty armies. He actually brought this exact same army to last year's Gentlemen's GT. He's got some terrific, almost hilarious, fluff for it, and every unit is elaborately named. The basic theme of the army is that Anrakyr has enslaved a small cadre of Orks under a big mek. And with the Ork slaves to hold the ground, Anrakyr and his Necrons can dominate the skies and control the battlefield at will. It's a great-looking army, and a terrifying one to have to face. http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd136/number61971/CotN%202013/FFFBF186-3EFC-4F69-BA59-5A9AA354AB82-7464-00000802BAD9884A_zps30a5a49b.jpg Necrons Anrakyr the Traveller, Unifier of the Dynasites Council of Pyrrhia, Royal Court of the Traveller: * Harbinger of Eternity w/chronometron * Harbinger of Despair w/veil of darkness * 2 Harbingers of the Storm 5 Deathmarks, Hunters from Hyperspace 5 Pyrrhian Eternals, Vanguard of the Traveller 5 Warriors, The Implacable Advance 5 Warriors, The Inevitable Defeat 4 Night Scythes, Scourge of the Skies Doom Scythe, Apex of Annihilation Ork Allies Klaytonium Mekkatork, Big Mek Extraordinaire: shokk attack gun 30 Ork Boyz, Slaves to the Traveller: 3 big shootaz, nob w/power klaw and bosspole Nazgrub Wurrzog's Big Gunz: 3 Lobbaz, 6 extra grot crew, 3 ammo runtz Fortification Nazgrub's Skrap Wall and the Big Dakka: Aegis defense line w/Quad Gun With exactly a single win against Necrons since their new codex near the end of 5th edition, and with such a fearsome army across from me, I was resigned to being tabled. The Primary Mission was the Scouring (6 objectives, each worth a variable number of VPs), with secondary objectives of First Blood, Slay the Warlord, and Linebreaker worth 1 VP each. Most VPs wins the game. The table was my favorite one, which I've been fortunate enough to play on each year: the downed Thunderhawk! http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd136/number61971/CotN%202013/4E6423D6-A2A0-4B93-8066-BBEA64A15553-7464-00000801D412137E_zpsa2676268.jpg We took turns placing objectives. One ended up in the lee of the left side of the Thunderhawk; two near the short table edge toward which the Thunderhawk was pointing; one near the long table edge to the Thunderhawk's right in a straight line from its tail; one near opposite table edge, centered; and one in the small cluster of rocks just in front of the big gray rock slab. Deployment was Dawn of War; I won the rolls for choice of table side and opted to take the far side of the table as shown in the picture. I also won the roll for 1st turn but gave it to him. He deployed his defense line in a shallow arc on my right, surrounding the objective in his deployment zone. The big mek and boyz surrounded the objective, the grot lobbaz and quad gun filled out the rest of the defense line, right in the center of the table. Everything else was embarked on a scythe and held in reserves. On my left I placed a single razorback and the other firebase. Most of the rest of my army I deployed directly behind the thunderhawk where he couldn't draw line of sight to it, though I did expose Quixote's unit -- shielded behind the other razorback -- and one firebase unit that I intended to walk forward and take possession of the objective in the rocks. I held my dreadknight in reserves for deep strike. Clay marked the combat squad in the razorback on my left. My plan was as follows. 1. Harass or deny the objectives on my left. Neither were in range of the shokk attack gun, and the Thunderhawk denied line of sight to much of that side of the table anyway. 2. Take the rocky objectives with one firebase unit, where they would also be in range of the grots and Orkz. 3. Advance Quixote, the dreadnoughts, and a Razorback to threaten Linebreaker and to get rid of the Orkz and grots. I prioritized the destruction of the quad gun and shokk attack gun very highly. The only target I felt was more important to eliminate was the Doom Scythe, but I was going to have to wait for it to show up before I could react to it. 4. As the end of game approached, find a way to get units onto the objectives closest to the Thunderhawk, especially the one in the lee, as it would be all but impossible for Clay to even contest it. Even if it was worth just 1 pt, it would probably be worth taking for the guaranteed VP. But as it turned out... When we flipped over markers, the '4' was in the lee of the Thunderhawk! Furthermore, the objective the Orks held was only a '1'. The one in the rocks was a '3'. The other '3' was on my left, close to Clay's deployment zone, the other '2' and '2' were closer to my deployment zone. I still felt my plan was sound. I had to gamble that I could take at least the '4' near me and one of the '3's or both of the '2's, all of which were relatively nearby. And I still couldn't let the quad gun, lobbaz, and shokk attack gun fire any longer than necessary. If they were allowed to combine with the Night and Doom Scythes, I'd be tabled. Besides, I felt I could win line breaker pretty easily. He was going to be landing his Necrons somewhat close to me, and if I kept my units close-ish, I felt that I could survive the initial losses and get into assault somehow. Because I wanted the final turn, and because I was relatively well hidden, I didn't even bother to seize the initiative. To be continued... 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Reclusiarch Darius Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Interesting matchups so far. That Nob Biker list deserved to lose, its completely the wrong list to bring against Knights (force weapons lol). Good on him for trying, but you won at deployment basically. That Necron list is pretty janky. He can make up all the cool names he likes, his scoring consist of one Ork blob (which you can just focus down Turn 1), and two 5-man Warrior squads. You win 4/5 mission on scenario, and in 'Purge' you outshoot and outmelee him by a substantial margin. The SAG might nuke your Terminators/Strikes, but if you DK or Raven kills the Mek first, he has no anti-Marine firepower. This is why Scythe spam is terrible, it wipes out so many points even at 1,750. Let us know just how hard you own the Necron player though. Might motivate him to not field Scythes, go for the true Necron strength (AV13 Living Metal wall of death). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272942-2013-con-of-the-north-batreps/#findComment-3330700 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kierdale Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Very entertaining reads so far :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272942-2013-con-of-the-north-batreps/#findComment-3330784 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 That Necron list is pretty janky. He can make up all the cool names he likes, his scoring consist of one Ork blob (which you can just focus down Turn 1), and two 5-man Warrior squads. You win 4/5 mission on scenario, and in 'Purge' you outshoot and outmelee him by a substantial margin. The SAG might nuke your Terminators/Strikes, but if you DK or Raven kills the Mek first, he has no anti-Marine firepower. This is why Scythe spam is terrible, it wipes out so many points even at 1,750.Disagree completely. I've faced Necron flying circuses multiple times, and had only beaten it once before. It follows a principle similar to 4th ed and 5th ed Tau lists. In those armies, I took only 2x 6 Fire Warriors and a unit of Kroot for Troops, and then loaded up on the shooty. Mostly, you only ever need to take 1 objective and deny any others your opponent might try to claim. I was so successful with my Tau that people complained it was an overpowered codex! Necron lists like this one here follow exactly the same principle. IMHO, they are actually more effective because flyers are more difficult to deal with, and thus are asymmetrically potent. Furthermore, Necron scythes are all of cheap, plentiful, and incredibly potent with their firepower. (Gauss weapons suck!) The first time I faced up against the flying circus -- back in 5th edition -- 3 night scythes and a doom scythe did most of the work to have my GKs tabled inside of 4 turns. Since that initial experience, I have mostly continued to lose to Necron flying circus lists. They were the primary reason I built this specific tournament army that I'm using in these batreps. Heavy flyer lists were clearly potent enough to just shoot me off the table; you don't need many scoring units to win with those kinds of armies. It may seem strange to you, but I assure you: it is not a "new" or "janky" style of army build. Rather, a tried-and-true overall strategy for wargaming success in any wargame. 40K is no exception to this; it's just another wargame, after all. In fact, Clay used this army last year to place 5th in the Gentlemen's GT. And as you'll see later, he placed high in the CotN as well. Anyway, ON TO THE BATTLE REPORT! +++++ Game 2, continued Turn 1 A quick turn for both of us, since most of his army was off the table and most of my guns were too short-ranged to hit his Orks. His shokk attack gun did get the most fortunate scatter possible on Str 8 however, stripping the razorback on my right of its heavy bolter and killing a terminator and two GKs from the nearby Inquisitor and firebase units. The lobbas put a ton of wounds on the terminators and I lost another one. I zipped both razorbacks straight forward 12" and popped smoke. The razorback on my left hugged the Thunderhawk and was midway between both objectives on that side of the table. The one on my right simply made a beeline for the big mek, but it would still be at least 2 turns before the combat squad inside could get stuck in. (Stupid 6e disembarkation rules....) Quixote's terminators ran around the rear end of the Thunderhawk in the wake of the damaged razorback so that any scythes that wanted to shoot at them would have to do so in the face of the vast majority of my army. Both dreadnoughts kept pace with Quixote. I ran the full firebase unit on my left toward the safety of the Thunderhawk and the 4 VP objective but didn't roll high enough to make it; they would be clearly visible to any scythes coming in on my left side. The depleted firebase unit on my right ran over the rock slabs and would reach the 3 VP objective in the nearby rocks next turn, and would also then be close enough to take shots at Orks. Both dreads took shots at the quad gun but only managed to strip a single hull point off of it. Turn 2 3 of the night scythes and the doom scythe came on from reserves. He lined all four planes up on my left, halfway onto the table, with the doom scythe flanked on my left with a one night scythe and on my right with 2 night scythes, making it all but impossible for me to get any shots on the doom scythe. He dropped the deathmarks out just in front of the razorback. The doom scythe took a hull point off the razorback and killed 2 from the firebase unit that were running toward Thunderhawk safety. They failed morale but were too far up to run off the table (though they tried!). A night scythe wrecked the razorback and I piled the GKs out the rear so that nearly all of them couldn't be seen by the deathmarks. However, one was still just visible and the deathmarks punk'd him. The two remaining night scythes combined their shots to kill the rest of the combat squad off. Meanwhile, the shokk attack gun took aim at the firebase squad running for the rocks objective, got Str 10, but scattered far enough that it only touched 2 of them, killing one. The lobbas initial shot scattered wildly off target, only managing a few hits on the the terminators to no effect. On my half of the turn, both the dreadknight and the stormraven thankfully showed up. I zoomed the stormraven so that it was nose to nose with the doom scythe. I dropped the dreadknight to the left of the quad gun, which was on the outside of his defense line encampment, almost dead center in his deployment zone. I zoomed the remaining razorback straight for the big mek again. Next turn I would be able to tank shock a path through the ork mob, hop out, and hopefully clear the objective with the help of my army's firepower. The firebase squad on my right ATSKnF rallied and took cover behind the Thunderhawk, taking possession of the 4 VP objective. The other firebase unit walked onto the 3 VP objective in the rocks. The dreadnoughts and Inquisitor also walked forward. At this point his quad gun intercepted the stormraven, but only managed to strip a single hull point. I knew I had to kill the doom scythe, but I also had to deplete his air force as much as possible, and I also had to do all I could to keep my stormraven in the air. Normally I prefer focusing fire until I am sure that a priority target is dead, but I figured I had no choice but to spread my fire around to as many scythes as I could hit and try and take out the Quad Gun, too, all at once. All my losses to Necrons to date were due to me being unable to take out the opposing Necron air force. To that end, the stormraven fired its multi-melta at the doom scythe and the lascannon at the night scythe on my left ... both of them exploded! The warrior unit inside went into ongoing reserves. Unfortunately, I had failed to get prescience up this turn, so my Inquisitor's fire at the night scythe he could clearly target was ineffective. One dread managed to kill the quad gun while the other took a hull point off the nearest night scythe. My firebase unit in the rocks killed 3 orks. The dreadknight incinerated a lobba and a couple of grots dead. All in all, not a bad turn for me. Two fliers -- including the doom scythe -- were gone, and the shooty grots with their quad gun and lobbas were virtually neutralized. Furthermore, the dreadknight and a combat squad would be reaching the orks next turn. With luck, Quixote would be able to down another scythe, and then it would be cleanup time. Turn 3 Clay's remaining night scythe came on from reserves and reinforced his air superiority on my left, dropping out some warriors near the 2 VP objective that was closer to my deployment zone. One of his night scythes zoomed into my deployment zone, and out dropped Anrakyr and friends. The damaged night scythe flew off the table into ongoing reserves. The deathmarks had the harbinger of despair attached and they teleported next to Anrakyr. (Damn! Should have remembered Warp Quake! ) Anrakyr targeted the dreadnought nearest him and took it over. He used that dreadnought to shoot the dreadnought in front of it in the rear and exploded it. Anrakyr's unit shot the mind-controlled dreadnought in the rear and wrecked it. The deathmarks took aim at the firebase squad huddling under the Thunderhawk and reduced it to a single GK with a psycannon. The night scythes on the table exploded the stormraven, killing two of the embarked terminators. On the other side of the table, the last of the grot lobbas tried to kill some of Quixote's retinue of terminators but failed to do so. And then the spectacular: the shokk attack gun rolled snake eyes and sucked the mek and about half of the orks into the Warp! At this point, I realized that Clay still had a unit of Warriors that could walk on and take the 3 VP objective on my left near his deployment zone, and his other warriors were going to take the 2 VP objective on my left close to my terminators. And the 4 VP and 2 VP objectives near the Thunderhawk and in my deployment zone were not going to be claimed unless I completely eliminated Anrakyr's unit and the deathmark unit. He would win 5 VPs to 4 VPs, and that was only if the night scythes didn't manage to kill to the 3 GKs holding onto the that objective in the rocks. The game could still swing in any direction. I had to decide whether it was worth trying to contest or claim the 2 VP objective on my left, or try and secure the objectives near the Thunderhawk and distract Clay's attention away from the units heading for his Orks and the little unit huddling in the rocks. I decided to go for claiming as many of the 4 objectives I was either on or about about to possess, and, if the game continued long enough, see if I could do anything about the Warrior units on my left. I doubted he would let me claim the 4 VP objective easily, yet I currently had only 3 terminators in position to do anything about the objectives he was claiming. To this end I sent all my terminators toward Anrakyr and the deathmarks. The last psycannon from one firebase squad and the 3 models from the other firebase squad poured fire into Anrakyr and took out one of the ethereals. Quixote's unit, boosted by Prescience and several rends, eliminated both Anrakyr, the cryptek, and 2 more ethereals. The other terminator unit killed one deathmark with stormbolters and got in position for a charge. On the other side of the table, the dreadknight incinerated another lobba and some grots into ash and prepared to assault. The razorback drove into the massive hole formed by the shokk attack gun's implosion, neatly cutting the remaining orks in half. The combat squad disembarked and killed all the orks holding the 1 VP objective with stormbolter fire, frightening the last remnants of the horde off the table. The dreadknight charged and wiped out the grots with ease, consolidating back toward the left side of the table and Clay's objectives. My terminators charged the deathmarks and wiped them out in assault. Quixote was too far away to charge, unfortunately, leaving Anrakyr and three ethereals safe after reanimation. Another excellent turn. I was starting to feel like I might actually be able to win this game. I was currently up 9 VPs to 3 VPs. (8 objective VPs + linebreaker vs 2 objective VPs + first blood) Turn 4 The damaged night scythe returned to the battlefield while Anrakyr re-embarked on his night scythe and flew off the table. The other night scythe turned and flew toward the thunderhawk and center of the table. The warriors that were forced into reserves by the destruction of the night scythe on the bottom of turn 2 walked onto the left side of the battlefield and ran, claiming the 3 VP objective. The warriors on the 2 VP objective to my left waited it out. Clay prioritized the destruction of my terminators at this point. I assumed he was thinking that if he could get rid of them, I wouldn't be able to score enough objective VPs to win. (An assessment I would have agreed with.) He poured night scythe fire into Quixote's unit, but their TDA was proof against the Necron weaponry this time. I ran the dreadknight toward the warriors that had just claimed the 3 VP objective, but it would be at least another turn before he could hope to incinerate them. The combat squad was happy to sit on top of the 1 VP objective inside Clay's aegis defense line. Similarly, the GK firebase in the rocks were content to keep the 3 VP objective. Quixote and his depleted retinue reversed course and headed toward the rocks and firebase unit holding the objective in case Clay managed to kill them off; Quixote's remaining retinue would be able to claim it starting turn 5 if required. The lone psycannon GK ran out of the lee of the Thunderhawk toward the 2 VP objective in my deployment zone and would be claiming it next turn. The 3 GKTs from the stormraven took possession of the 4 VP objective in place of the GK with the psycannon that just ran off of it. I managed to strip a hull point off of the undamanged night scythe with psycannon fire, but that was it. The score was now 9 VPs to 6 VPs in my favor. Turn 5 Anrakyr's night scythe zoomed into the center of the table and dropped out Anrakyr. The other two night scythes tried their best to orient themselves for shots on my terminators. In total, two could get shots off on Quixote's unit, one could fire upon the GKTs on the 4 VP objective. Anrakyr and the two scythes poured fire onto Quixote's unit but only managed to kill one terminator. The other scythe failed to kill any of the terminators claiming the objective. The warriors on the 3 VP objective tried shooting at the onrushing dreadknight but failed to hurt it. On my turn the lone GK psycannon gunman took possession of the 2 VP objective in my deployment zone and the dreadknight fried 4 of the warriors on the 3 VP objective but two of them got back up. Unfortunately, he failed his charge, but making it would have been a long shot anyway. (I think it was 11" away.) I tried blowing away Anrakyr's unit but only managed to kill a single ethereal. It seemed to me that for Clay to have any chance, he would need all 7 turns, and he'd have to both kill my dreadknight and the terminators under the Thunderhawk ... a tall order. We rolled to see if there would be a 6th turn.... Nope! Victory to the GKs: 11 VPs to 6 VPs. Unfortunately, this wasn't double my opponent's score, so I missed out on 2 of the 4 available bonus points. Still, it was enough to pit me against the day's current top points leader: Matt Raatz and his Chaos Daemons, who had tabled both of his previous opponents in 4 turns or less. Game 3: The Championship, to come Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272942-2013-con-of-the-north-batreps/#findComment-3330927 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted March 20, 2013 Author Share Posted March 20, 2013 Game 3: Chaos Daemons This one was for all the marbles. A win would almost certainly crown me champion. A draw with bonus points could also see me place in the top three. This was to be my first game against Matt Raatz, who isn't the prolific converter that Clay McCarty, Andrew Martin, or Aaron Loomis are, but he's just about their equal in painting ability. His daemons were very, very pretty, especially the soul grinder. (Apparently I didn't take a pic of his army, however. ) Ku'Gath 9 Flamers 9 Flamers 9 Flamers 8 Plaguebearers 8 Plaguebearers 8 Plaguebearers 6 Screamers 6 Screamers Soul Grinder Matts army was clearly a no nonsense, fluff-be-damned, min-maxed tournament build designed to utterly dominate the battlefield, ceding the skies entirely. I can see why it was so damned effective. Unless he went up against a Necron flying circus, he had everything required to crush enemies on the ground (provided he wasn't stupid unlucky with his drops). I was only vaguely aware of the White Dwarf updates to flamers and screamers. Nobody in my local group has been playing daemons since then (at least, not when I've been to the store), so I had no first-hand experience. This was unfortunate, as despite my real caution, I still underestimated the true power of the flamers and screamers. What was also unfortunate was that the table to which we were assigned was all but devoid of line of sight blocking terrain. http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd136/number61971/CotN%202013/FBB4B4C0-A36D-4B35-98CA-C7E45DF004B4-7464-0000080203623252_zps6445a6e0.jpg Yes, some blocking terrain would have given protection to the daemons from my shooting, but the flip side is that there was virtually no way I could control how much of my army would available for him to fly over with screamers or upon which to drop the flamers. The final bit of bad luck for me was that while I got to pick my table side for Dawn of War deployment (I chose the side with the wrecked Rhino in a swamp), Matt won the first turn, denying me a chance to set up a Warp Quake bubble. The Primary mission was Crusade: 3 VPs per objective marker claimed with a scoring unit. We rolled up 3 objectives, which ended up getting placed near my deployment zone in a virtual line: one on the left, one left of center, and one far to the right. Secondary missions were the usual: First Blood, Slay the Warlord, Linebreaker, worth 1 VP each. Most VPs wins the game. I deployed in a castle formation behind the swamped Rhino. Both dreadnoughts formed the left wall, the razorbacks the front wall, and the dreadknight the wall on the right. Behind the razorbacks huddled my firebase units, and behind them, hugging the board edge, was Quixote and Co. I just had to hope either that Matt's preferred wave didn't show up (Ku'Gath, 2 sets of Flamers, 1 set of Screamers, the Soul Grinder), or that his drops scattered. Turn 1 Neither of those hopes materialized. He was ballsy with his drops; you have to be with an army like this. And it paid off for him. He stuck both units of flamers just a few inches from my left flank. Ku'Gath actually scattered closer to me but didn't mishap, landing right in the swamp directly in front of the razorbacks. The screamers scattered a bit sideways and ended up also on my left flank, but still not far. Only the soul grinder dropped a bit farther away, but that wasn't really a problem since he wanted to drop pie plates on me anyway. My first taste of what flamers were capable of astonished me. He took aim at the leftmost firebase unit with his flamer units, but still managed to touch one of the dreadnoughts, the leftmost razorback, some of the models in the other firebase unit, and even a couple of terminators in Quixote's unit. The razorback was lucky, just suffering 2 hull points of damage. The dreadnought was wrecked. The leftmost firebase unit was obliterated. Two from the other firebase unit were killed as well. And a terminator died for good measure. Then the soul grinder dropped a battle cannon on the remnants of the other firebase unit, killing all but a single GK bearing a psycannon. The template also touched the rightmost razorback -- which lost a hull point -- and the dreadknight -- which shrugged the wound off. Ku'gath flamed both razorbacks but failed to damage them any further. Well.... That sucked. After successfully activating 3 warp quakes, I disembarked the combat squads from the razorbacks to add to my greatly reduced firepower, then drove both razorbacks forward 6" into the swamp, blocking Ku'Gath from charges and preventing him from getting any closer with his breath of chaos. The dreadknight moved and was within 7" of charging the soul grinder. I moved the remaining dreadnought toward the closest unit of flamers, and everybody else shifted enough to ensure clear firing lanes at the the farther unit of flamers. My naive plan was to kill as much of the farther flamer unit as I could and tie up the nearer flamer unit in assault to prevent it from shooting any more. To that end everything but the dreadnought and dreadknight -- from razorbacks to GKs -- shot at that outer flamer unit, and I did manage to kill 6 of them. The dreadnought killed one flamer from the nearer unit and then charged. Foolish. I simply hadn't reckoned on the power of breath of chaos in overwatch mode. 27 dice later, the dreadnought was a smoking wreck. Awesome. More successfully, the dreadknight charged the soul grinder and took two hull points off it, suffering a single wound in return. Still ... what a miserable turn. Turn 2 Now that I had warp quake up, Matt didn't want to risk dropping too closely to my army. His final flamer unit arrived, as did 2 of the plaguebearer units. One of the plaguebearer units took possession of the objective on the far right, the other one attempted to take possession of the leftmost objective but mishapped into the screamers and died. The new flamer unit landed safely but scattered almost directly away from me about 9", likely taking them out of any fighting for the next two turns. I thanked the Chaos Gods profusely; I definitely needed the respite! Still, he had more than enough to cause me great pain, and wasted no time inflicting it. He tried to find a way to get the screamers to fly over my units but there wasn't quite enough space for them to land, so he turbo-boosted them down my left flank, ending just a few inches from Quixote. The flamers that fended off the dreadnought jumped in such a way that they formed an arc around all of my strike squad GKs, and the depleted unit of flamers nearly took their place. Ku'Gath flamed the undamaged razorback and took a hull point off it, but didn't charge. (I suspect Matt just forgot about it.) The flamers ringing me obliterated the combat squad on the right and took 3 more GKs off the combat squad on the left. Because they had to maximize wounds on their target unit they were unable to land a template on the lone psycannon guy, so he miraculously survived the slaughter. The 3 other flamers killed two of my terminators. In combat, my dreadknight finished off the soul grinder and consolidated toward the plaguebearers on the the rightmost objective. I could see no way any of my infantry currently on the table was going to survive the game. It seemed to me that my only hope was to get the terminators off the stormraven and onto the rightmost objective and hope to hold it, while timing a hover move from the stormraven to contest whichever objective Matt would attempt to take with his final plaguebearer unit. (I was betting the leftmost one.) Which meant keeping the flamers and screamers occupied for as long as was possible. A tall order. Unfortunately, my stormraven came on this turn. (I would really have liked for it to have waited one, if not two, more turns.) I made the best of it by hovering on and dropping the GKTs out in front of the plaguebearers. The dreadknight moved over to support them. After the dreadknight and GKTs shot them up, 2 of the plaguebearers had died. The dreadknight failed to make the charge. Meanwhile, I went through the motions of activating warp quake again even though there was little point. Also, I decided that tying up the flamers was of paramount importance. And after witnessing what breath of chaos can do when being charged, that meant devoting everything to the assault, just so I could guarantee getting some models into combat. Yet I also couldn't afford to let Ku'Gath get into the act. So I had the stormraven and both razorbacks target Ku'Gath, somehow managing to take him down by 3 wounds. (3 more to go!) Everybody else -- Quixote and my remaining Strikers -- shot up flamers arced around me, killing 2, then they all charged. Matt chose to target Quixote's unit, and I let Quixote himself suck up two of the resulting wounds while he watched another of his terminators bite it, leaving the GKT with a psycannon, two striker GKs from a combat squad (including the Justicar and a daemonhammer), the GK with a psycannon, and a wounded Quixote as the only models to make it into combat. They did well, killing 3 of the flamers (leaving 3 left), taking no wounds in return, and were now safely locked in combat. Ugh. Things were dire. He had a full flamer unit coming, a full screamer unit still to arrive, a full screamer unit still around, ready to cause trouble, a full plaguebearer unit still to arrive, and Ku'Gath. Meanwhile, I had bupkus. It was going to take a miracle.... Turn 3 Matt's plaguebearers showed up and he landed them near the leftmost objective, ready to take it starting next turn. The screamers also arrived. He looked to place them near the scrum around his other plaguebearer unit, but they ended up scattering toward the center of the table. My opponent made a couple of curious decisions this turn. I would have ensured the ultimate destruction of my Inquisitor and the bedraggled remnants stuck in combat with his flamers this very turn. All he had to do was charge in with the full unit of 6 screamers that were right there and it'd be a done deal. (4 attacks each on the charge at Str 5 and AP 1!) To not do that meant that I was likely to destroy the flamers they were in combat with, and -- if they wiped out them out on his turn -- my remnants could potentially shoot/assault the depleted flamer unit nearby as well. Instead, he turbo-boosted the screamers in the direction of my stormraven. I can only assume he prioritized the destruction of it far more. The depleted flamer unit jumped over the combat, heading toward the right as well. Ku'gath wandered off in that direction as well, probably hoping to get in on some dreadknight/GKT action in a turn or two. Finally, the full unit of flamers that dropped last turn jumped in the direction of the flamer combat. As far as I was concerned, all of these moves were to his detriment. (I.e., the fresh flamer unit could've taken out the dreadknight in a single salvo starting next turn if it wasn't stuck in combat. And even if it was, there were some juicy GKTs nearby ready for the breath of chaos....) But I was willing to roll with it. He had no shooting phase, so it was straight to combat, where Quixote & Co. did just manage to kill off the last of the flamers. On my half of the turn, I sent the GKT unit near the plaguebearers directly toward the right table edge, hoping to maximize the distance between them and all of the screamers. I needed them to avoid getting caught up in assault for as long as possible; I could wait to try taking the objective until at least turn 5 if I had to. They and the dreadknight combined to shoot and incinerate 4 of the plaguebearers dead. The dreadknight charged, finished them off in assault, and consolidated toward the right as well, following in the GKTs footsteps, taking him just out of any screamer unit's average charge range. The stormraven stayed in hover mode, backed off to the right by 18" -- taking it out of likely screamer charge range! -- then fired upon Ku'Gath and took a wound off. Both razorbacks stayed put -- they were my backup objective deniers -- fired upon Ku'Gath and took another wound off. (One to go!) Quixote & Co. took aim at the depleted flamer unit, killing two. They all charged and somehow managed to avoid taking any wounds from overwatch, easily killing it off in the ensuing assault. Everybody consolidated as far as they were able in the direction of the plaguebearers near the leftmost objective. There was no way in hell they were gonna make there alive, but it was the only way I had to keep my opponent devoting at least one unit to this side of the table. They would easily kill off the plaguebearers; Matt simply couldn't let me do that. Something had to stick around to deal with these guys! Turn 4 Matt appeared to realize the mistakes he made last turn and reversed course to correct them, though I think he overcompensated. The screamer unit that lately turbo-boosted toward the stormraven instead turbo-boosted back to the left, flying over the lone GK with a psycannon and killed him. (I would have gone to threaten the dreadknight and nearby GKTs instead. Give the flamers two turns and they could eliminate Quixote & Co. just fine.) The flamers jumped in an arc to the right of Quixote, his last GKT escort, and the last two models of the last strike squad. Targeting the strike squad also let them land templates on Quixote's unit as well, and everything was overkilled by a truly ridiculous amount. His recently arrived plaguebearers took possession of the nearby objective. On the right side of the table, the screamers turbo-boosted over my GKTs but did no damage. Ku'Gath was too far away to flame the dreadknight and also failed to charge. My turn. I assumed that I could strip at least one more wound off Ku'Gath with shooting, so I maneuvered my dreadknight around for the best incinerator angle on screamers. Between his heavy incinerator and my GKTs -- which included another incinerator -- they killed four of them off. Everybody piled into the screamers for combat, wiping them out. The dreadknight consolidated several inches to the left of the objective. The GKTs pretty much stayed put. The stormraven switched to zooming mode and just managed to keep Ku'Gath in his sights, managing to inflict the final wound! The razorbacks tried moving out of the swamp but the one on the left immobilized itself, effectively blocking the other one. The mobile razorback started its move around the blocking one. Both razorbacks targeted screamers but nothing came of it. Turn 5 Down to the wire. Matt couldn't quite contest the objective on the right, but neither could I quite contest the objective on the left. Still, if the game ended this turn, Matt was going to win based on the secondary objectives. (He had all three of First Blood, Slay the Warlord, and Linebreaker. All I had was Slay the Warlord.) Matt jumped the flamers over the razorbacks and absolutely demolished them with breath of chaos. The screamers turned back around and turbo-boosted to the right again. However, because of my need to take the objective, they would be in charge range if there was a turn 6. I was down to my stormraven, my dreadknight, and my GKTs. The GKTs took possession of the objective. The stormraven zoomed toward the plaguebearers on the left, taking a wound off of a flamer with shooting. My dreadknight moved to intercept the screamers, killed one with his heavy incinerator, and charged. He killed one, but Matt rolled very well and the 12 attacks in return were just enough to strip him of his final 3 wounds. The screamers consolidated toward the GKTs. I was down 4 VPs to 6 VPs. We rolled and ... there would be a turn 6! Turn 6 Matt was down to a unit of plaguebearers, a unit of flamers, and a unit of screamers. The plaguebearers obviously stayed put. He jumped and ran the flamers toward my GKTs on the right. The screamers zoomed in and charged my GKTs. I managed to kill one before they struck back, but the remaining ones killed three of my GKTs in return. Crap. On my half of the turn, the stormraven slipped into hover mode and hovered right next to the plaguebearer objective and killed one of them for good measure. My last two GKTs put a wound on a screamer but were themselves finished off. We rolled for a turn 7 but it didn't come. Though we drew on the primary objectives 0-0, Matt won the game 1 VP to 3 VPs on the strength of the secondary objectives. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272942-2013-con-of-the-north-batreps/#findComment-3331739 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Disagree completely. I've faced Necron flying circuses multiple times, and had only beaten it once before. It follows a principle similar to 4th ed and 5th ed Tau lists. In those armies, I took only 2x 6 Fire Warriors and a unit of Kroot for Troops, and then loaded up on the shooty. Mostly, you only ever need to take 1 objective and deny any others your opponent might try to claim. I was so successful with my Tau that people complained it was an overpowered codex! I play Tau, and that kinda list died with 5th edition. I too have fought Necron Air lists, they suffer in objective games when you wipe their Troops then laugh when they can't do the same by dice down. As you proved, he couldn't deal with your army with his firepower. I don't honestly understand why people go Scythe heavy, when AV13 wall not only brings more scoring, but heals scoring units (ie Warriors) and punishes forces which lack ways to crack multiple AV13 targets at range. Not surprised you lost to Daemons, they were overpowered spam garbage after White Dwarf. Now, they've been reduced back to 'worst codex in the game' status. I don't expect the same results next time you fight that list, if it even places next year. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272942-2013-con-of-the-north-batreps/#findComment-3331765 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atdi Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Nice batreps and congrats on your wins :-). Just a quick note: not the player who overwatches decides which unit takes the overwatch. You decide it by choosing the unit who charges first, so in your case the lonely gk with psycannon could have taken the overwatch wounds and the termis and co could have charged in unharmed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272942-2013-con-of-the-north-batreps/#findComment-3331791 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted March 20, 2013 Author Share Posted March 20, 2013 Not precisely accurate. The unit being charged can choose to NOT overwatch the 1st unit that charges, in expectation that other units will also be charging so that one of those other units can be overwatched instead. This is what my opponent did. +++++ Final Tournament Results Out of 38 players I came in 8th overall, tied for 7th on pure battle points (game) results, my best result since that 2008 near miss. Can't complain about that. Here are the final results for all armies, based purely on battle points. 1. Daemons (Matt Raatz, who also took 1st overall) 2. Orks 3. Space Marines 4. Orks 5. Necrons 6. Eldar 7. Daemons 7. GKs (me!) 7. GKs w/Necron Allies 7. Necrons w/Ork Allies (Clay) 11. Eldar 11. Orks 11. Space Marines 11. Space Wolves 15. Blood Angels 15. Dark Angels 17. Dark Angels 18. Space Marines 19. CSM 20. Space Marines 21. GKs 21. Eldar 23. CSM 24. Orks (my round 1 opponent) 25. Dark Angels 25. Dark Angels 25. Dark Eldar 25. GKs 25. Space Marines 30. Dark Eldar 31. Eldar 31. Orks 33. Blood Angels 34. IG w/CSM Allies 35. Tyranids 35. Tyranids 37. CSM w/IG 38. Blood Angels Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272942-2013-con-of-the-north-batreps/#findComment-3331805 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted March 20, 2013 Author Share Posted March 20, 2013 I play Tau, and that kinda list died with 5th edition.Except ... it didn't? I know, 'cause like I said, I played that kind of Tau list for most of 5th edition. It totally did NOT die, because I won tournaments with it! It ain't hard to keep squishy troops alive if you never expose them to the enemy. There are reserves, devilfish with (in 5th edition) a constant 4+ cover save that can also be entirely hidden behind hammerheads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272942-2013-con-of-the-north-batreps/#findComment-3331808 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeratul29 Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Number6, can I ask how you do your red? Because I've been wanting to do a red like that Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272942-2013-con-of-the-north-batreps/#findComment-3331856 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atdi Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 That´s not true if he doesn´t overwatch the first unit that charges him and this unit reaches the flamers he can´t overwatch another unit because he´s already "locked in combat". Only if the first unit would fail the charge he could overwatch the second unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272942-2013-con-of-the-north-batreps/#findComment-3331857 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted March 20, 2013 Author Share Posted March 20, 2013 Hmmm. That's not the way we've been playing it locally. Will look into this more closely. It was also how we handled it at the CotN.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272942-2013-con-of-the-north-batreps/#findComment-3331908 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoJack Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Hey N6, how did you deploy half of your terminators on the board and keep the other half in reserve in the SR? I'm fairly certain you can't do this, since you combat squad when you deploy, and you can't depoly until you leave reserves. I don't believe you can deploy one combat squad and keep the other in reserves. If I'm wrong please correct me, because I've been telling people they can't do that. Nice batreps. I'm happy about being proved wrong about the DK :) @RD The reason necron air with msu works so well is that you can't hurt their troops because they're in reserve. By spamming flyers, they make it almost impossible to remove them all, practically guaranteeing that one flyer drops its troops off sometime late game, similar to the elder shuffle of yesteryear. I'm not saying AV13 wall isn't effective (it definitely is), just that cronair is also effective. Also, he had 4 troops, the pyrrhian externals are immortals with furious charge and counter-attack (it's free with anrakyr). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272942-2013-con-of-the-north-batreps/#findComment-3331954 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted March 20, 2013 Author Share Posted March 20, 2013 Number6, can I ask how you do your red? Because I've been wanting to do a red like thatIt's very simple. 0. Black prime followed by thorough black undercoat. 1. I have the old Mechrite Red Foundation Paint. (I believe that Mephiston Red is the current equivalent to this.) This is my base coat. 2. I have the old Blood Red. (I believe that Evil Sunz Scarlet is the current equivalent.) This is my layer. 3. I have the old Blazing Orange. (I believe that Trollslayer Orange is the current equivalent.) This is my highlight. Mostly this is edge highlighting, but on robes/tabards I sorta-kinda do a thick "glaze" by applying a bit of paint then, with a somewhat watered-down brush, spread the paint around the area where I want it. Finally, the entire model gets a thinned down wash of Gryphonne Sepia. (I believe that Seraphim Sepia is the current equivalent.) The wash is about 2 parts Sepia to 3 parts water. This does two things I like. Firstly, it warms up the tone of the entire model. Secondly, it helps to add depth to the model, since, otherwise, my painting looks rather "flat". Hey N6, how did you deploy half of your terminators on the board and keep the other half in reserve in the SR? I'm fairly certain you can't do this, since you combat squad when you deploy, and you can't depoly until you leave reserves. I don't believe you can deploy one combat squad and keep the other in reserves. If I'm wrong please correct me, because I've been telling people they can't do that.Reading the rules for Combat Squads, it says two things. 1. "Both combat squads can be deployed in separate locations." And, more importantly, 2. "If you decide to split a unit into combat squads, then each combat squad is treated as a separate unit for all game purposes from that point on." (emphasis mine) Deployment happens all at once. Since both combat squads are effectively two completely separate units, I can decide to put one on the table and one into reserves, if I so choose. There are no restrictions implied by that 2nd rules quote above. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272942-2013-con-of-the-north-batreps/#findComment-3331974 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoJack Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Yup, I'm wrong. The rulebook says, "When deploying armies, the player can choose not to deploy up to half their units (rounding up), keeping them in reserves for later." So logically units are either deployed or in reserves, and units in reserved are not deployed. The rules for combat squading say that it happens immediately before deployment (which implied to me would happen right before you placed the models on the table and after you've rolled for reserves). Looking at the combat squad rule closer (and continuing what N6 said), "including the... number of units you can place in reserves," which would suggest combat squading does in fact happen in reserves and by deployment, they mean pre-game deployment, not the units deployment. So, yes, I'm thankfully wrong, as this adds a bit more tactical flexibility than before, although I liked the idea of rolling for reserves on one unit, than combat squading it into two units on the table. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272942-2013-con-of-the-north-batreps/#findComment-3332062 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Except ... it didn't? I know, 'cause like I said, I played that kind of Tau list for most of 5th edition. It totally did NOT die, because I won tournaments with it! It ain't hard to keep squishy troops alive if you never expose them to the enemy. There are reserves, devilfish with (in 5th edition) a constant 4+ cover save that can also be entirely hidden behind hammerheads. Not what I meant. What I mean is, Tau attrition lists (which were already a kinda iffy style for an army that never traded well) died when 6th came out (when I said 'died with 5th', I meant when 5th got made redundant). Most especially when CSM got their update. I'm hoping when Tau get their update, we'll get some power back. I'd like to be as good as Crons. Our infantry are weak and overpriced, our tanks are reasonably durable but overpriced (legacy 4th issues), the battlesuit units work but again, xenos tax is a pain. The reason necron air with msu works so well is that you can't hurt their troops because they're in reserve. By spamming flyers, they make it almost impossible to remove them all, practically guaranteeing that one flyer drops its troops off sometime late game, similar to the elder shuffle of yesteryear. I'm not saying AV13 wall isn't effective (it definitely is), just that cronair is also effective. Also, he had 4 troops, the pyrrhian externals are immortals with furious charge and counter-attack (it's free with anrakyr). The Necron Troop roster is pathetic. He has three 5-man units, two of which have only 4+ armour. Immortals with Furious Charge are a bad joke. Anrakyr is a terrible HQ, dunno why the Necron guy didn't take Zandrekh or even Imotekh. At least he did the right thing with Orks and brought a Shoota blob, but because there is only one, its easy to focus down. Once the Ork scoring is dead, the Necron stuff is easy to finish off. As number6 proved in his game, the Necron list just doesn't have the firepower to remove Knight scoring units. In particular, the Necron list does nothing to the Terminators. You can make the Scythe spam a disadvantage by careful positioning. Pre-measure as much as you can, try and block bombing runs so he can't deploy onto objectives with the MSU units. I agree that its a pain to get rid of the Scythes, but if you can make them useless, that's equally effective. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272942-2013-con-of-the-north-batreps/#findComment-3332192 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kierdale Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Thank you for posting those very good battle reports and congratulations on your position. That last battle was particularly hard fought and entertaining! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272942-2013-con-of-the-north-batreps/#findComment-3332240 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atdi Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Hmmm. That's not the way we've been playing it locally. Will look into this more closely. It was also how we handled it at the CotN.... Ok we play it like I said. I also read some articles on some blogs which were talking about eating the overwatch fire with an expendable unit and then charge in with your hammer-CC-unit, but that doesn´t mean that it is true or played right like that. I will look it up in the rulebook again if I have it available on sunday or monday. But as long as it´s played consistently at the tournament it´s alright to play it like that I think :-). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272942-2013-con-of-the-north-batreps/#findComment-3332428 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted March 21, 2013 Author Share Posted March 21, 2013 Reclusiarch Darius, on 20 Mar 2013 - 18:55, said: Not what I meant. What I mean is, Tau attrition lists (which were already a kinda iffy style for an army that never traded well) died when 6th came out (when I said 'died with 5th', I meant when 5th got made redundant). Ah, I gotcha. Actually agree, too. Tau got reduced to "play as or with allies only" for these early months of 6th edition. Fortunately, the new codex is due out in less than two weeks. Reclusiarch Darius said: As number6 proved in his game, the Necron list just doesn't have the firepower to remove Knight scoring units. In particular, the Necron list does nothing to the Terminators. This is an interesting set of observations. Firstly, note that I said that I have a history of losing to cron air force lists. Their firepower has traditionally been more than enough to wipe out my scoring units. Secondly, note that I said it was this history of losses that caused me to design this army list the way I did. My "traditional" lists clearly had an achilles heel in all-comers play: flyer-heavy armies. Ever since the new GK codex, there have been a surprising number of "absolute" statements bandied about this particular web forum. The key ones I want to focus on are: * "Troop GKTs are worthless. Always take Paladins instead if you want TDA." * "Strike Squads are the only GK Troops worth taking, unless you're playing henchman spam." * "Walking Dreadknights are worthless. Always take the Personal Teleporter." * 5th edition: "Always take psyfleman". 6th edition: "Psyflemen are just 'meh' now. You're better off spending points on flying Dreadknights." As you can see, I didn't follow any of these "truths". So why did I win? And why was I able to beat my bugaboo army of Necron flying circus? Because I built the list coherently with the express purpose of covering a glaring weakness in the GK army codex. That's why. GKTs are worthless and Strikes are the only good Troops to take? Not so fast! Flyers in general don't have the right kind of weaponry to puncture TDA, and a Dreadknight escort goes a long way toward attracting enemy firepower away from my GKTs. Furthermore, the DK offloads much of the "need assault capability in my army" from the GKTs, further reducing the amount of attention they will absorb from the enemy. Add in a prescient Inquisitor with a psycannon, and HEY! I've got twin-linking dakka, so much of it that the unit of "worthless" GKTs becomes a dangerously survivable enemy of anything my opponent can field. Including -- especially -- flyers! Finally, now that Stormravens MUST start in reserves, and because nothing can ever charge into assault when arriving from reserves, I wanted a unit insisde that could potentially survive if the Stormraven was blasted out of the sky right when it arrives. That means invulnerable saves. That means units in TDA or nothing. Can't put purifiers or strikers inside. That was fine for 5th edition, not so much in 6th edition, IMHO. Having terminators in reserve also makes for a great game-changer. So now that's +2 pts in favor of lowly, useless GKTs ... at least in the context of my army list design. Walking dreadknights are worthless? Not when they are used to perform the specific roles I just outlined. Absorbing attention away from my Troops and presenting the most credible assault threat to the enemy. The ability to deep strike is just as good on a DK as it is on any other GK unit (e.g., Strike Squads.) The ability to pull a unit from reserves and use it to pressure an enemy on a surprise flank is a useful ability. Because my Troops were not designed to do that -- specifically designed not to do that -- the natural role for this went to the DK. Giving him a teleported would have been a poor choice for a number of reasons. Primarily, I would have been tempted to fly him out on his own rather than use him as a Troops escort like I really need. It was WAY more effective -- strategically -- to rely on Deep Strike for those occasions where I felt it was actually more important to get him in the enemy's deployment zone ASAP. That way I was more likely to use him in his intended role as Protector of my Troops, Absorber of Firepower, and Dissuader of Enemy Assaults. And lastly, psyflemen are now merely 'meh'? Depends, doesn't it? The GK codex is miserable when it comes to flyer defense. I had no place for a fortification in my build, and the stormraven is just two expensive to rely upon (can't get enough of them!) as the sole element. So, need as much twin-linking as is possible! That means psyflemen. They were actually responsible for downing the Ork flyers in my 1st game. But there's something else about psyflemen that people never seem to remember. They are awesome at tying up enemies in assault. Getting even a single turn of assault-blocking can mean the difference between winning a game and losing a game. Especially if it means protecting your Troops. You'll note that I never left my dreads in my backfield. They -- like the dreadknight -- walked right alonside the rest of my army, typically on the flanks. They were there to be sacrificed should the need ever arise. They -- like all the other "useless" units I took -- were combined into a coherent whole that functioned brilliantly on the tabletop. Design your list and tactics properly, and you can make an army like Necron Flying Circus look "bad" by comparison. I still think it's a very, very good army build. But I had played against it often enough to know what had to be done to defend against it and, ultimately, beat it. I was careful not to render it too useless for play against anything else I might run up against, and like to think I succeeded. But it was the victory against the Necrons that I am proudest of, and feel like that vindicates all of my army list design decisions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272942-2013-con-of-the-north-batreps/#findComment-3332617 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Secondly, note that I said it was this history of losses that caused me to design this army list the way I did. My "traditional" lists clearly had an achilles heel in all-comers play: flyer-heavy armies. To be fair, Flyers are kinda breaking the game in 6th. Anti-air platforms are few and far between, and stuff like the Heldrake is invalidating otherwise balanced forces. It's an annoying shift in the meta we'll all have to account for. * "Troop GKTs are worthless. Always take Paladins instead if you want TDA." Lol, since when? Scoring Terminators are amazing. Ours in particular combine shooting prowess with melee in a way that Tac Terminators can't match. Even Deathwing aren't as flexible as us. Paladins are in real trouble in 6th. Wound allocation is gone, they're not longer characters, and S8 AP2 is becoming more prevelant again. They still work, but I wouldn't normally take them outside of Draigowing lists. TDA blob is cheaper and better in many cases. * "Strike Squads are the only GK Troops worth taking, unless you're playing henchman spam." Nope. In fact, I'd be taking 1-2 at most. They're quite mediocre in melee, and Henchmen do outperform them as a pure shooting unit. 'Warp Quake' however is pretty relevant, and aside from Henchmen they are our cheapest scoring unit. They're good, but spamming them is a bad idea usually. * "Walking Dreadknights are worthless. Always take the Personal Teleporter." Worthless is probably the wrong word. I'd say more 'riskier'. They still smush everything they come into contact with, but mobility is so important in 40k, and we're already a slow mid-field army type for the most part. Giving him 'Scout'/Outflanking via 'TGS' is a reasonable way to get around not taking the teleporter. Tank walls are not really a thing anymore, so a flanking heavy incinerator on an MC is pretty handy for clearing out the backfield. However, personally I don't use him that way. * 5th edition: "Always take psyfleman". 6th edition: "Psyflemen are just 'meh' now. You're better off spending points on flying Dreadknights." Haha no. Who is advocating that? PsyDreads are still our only real anti-Flyer and anti-transport platform. They're also unchanged in the role of 'blowing up T4 multi-wound', like Nob Bikers, Oblits, Tyranid Warriors etc. You can do without them, but I'd be wary of doing that. Shooting over 24" just doesn't happen much without them. number6, I'm not taking away from your win by any means. Flyer lists are annoying and can defeat otherwise balanced armies. I think however you exploited his lack of scoring presence and his general lack of means to kill off your scoring, which is how you won. There were other factors as well, but by dice down, you have more scoring on more objectives. He got outplayed, pure and simple. Good work :) As I mentioned before, I think next time round, you'll crush whatever that Daemon player decides to bring. The new codex is just...wow. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272942-2013-con-of-the-north-batreps/#findComment-3332899 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted March 22, 2013 Author Share Posted March 22, 2013 * "Troop GKTs are worthless. Always take Paladins instead if you want TDA." Lol, since when? Scoring Terminators are amazing. Ours in particular combine shooting prowess with melee in a way that Tac Terminators can't match. Even Deathwing aren't as flexible as us. There's quite a long history of most of these "rules" I quoted. True, not everybody agreed with them ... but they have all been quite commonly bandied about. At least enough for me to have noticed.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272942-2013-con-of-the-north-batreps/#findComment-3332914 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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