minionboy Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Hey everyone, I posted about this on Warseer, but didn't really get any solid advice. Basically, what do you think the best allies are for chaos and why? What roles are the allies filling that the CSM is lacking? Initially, I thought Daemons would be the best, being the only Battle Bro's that we get, but honestly, after pouring over the Chaos Daemons codex for days, I haven't found any holes in the CSM army that the CD book really solves. The CD book seems to be mostly cheap scoring units or fast assault units, which are roles which are already well covered in the CSM book (though you could make an even faster, more aggressive army with a few CD allies). Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsmith Aznable Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 I like my IG Air Cavalry. A Commissar with some melta or plasma Veterans flying in on a Vendetta to shoot up everything in sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 I would go with Imperial Guard, since they are useful to just about anyone. They would also be fairly fluffy for many warbands. I haven't had a enough time to mess around with the new daemons, but they certainly are fluffy if nothing else. Other Xenos have their uses but I guess it really depends on what you want to do. Again here I'll let anyone with specific experience talk... I know shoota boyz are pretty good, but I don't know if anyone has found them useful for their chaos army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornywingythingy Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Honestly? Depends on your primary csm list, I'm loving demon allies in my spawn rush list atm, two cheap units of plaguebearers for backfield camping, lord of change with two greater and 1 lesser reward, then add some fun stuff, but it won't work so well if your army isn't so agressive.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 necrons: anti-air, haywire/scythe, scoring, cheap, nightfighting. counts-as dark mechanicus. IG only 2nd because we can't join their blobs and got battle cannons of our own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 IG , then demons . orcs are ok , they were much better pre nob nerf. necron are ok too , but necron work better with other dex as main. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 In a vacuum, I'd agree that IG are the best option and much of that is based around the super value of the Vendetta. Artillery is another good reason to take the ground pounders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkOne Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 I've had a pretty good time using IG as allies. Though, if I'm not mistaken, there is no way to have more than 1 vendetta, unless they're in a squadron, no? And if they're in a squadron they have to move together and fire at the same target etc? I want to build a demons army to ally into my CSM, and eventually stand on its own so I've been playing around with that. Things that I think demons can bring to the table to augment a chaos army are: Greater Demons - our demon prince is only T5, and in my experience doesn't stand up as the only monster out there. Adding any of the greater demons as allies, and bringing a heavy prince (maybe a 2nd hq prince from CSM) makes for a nice monster mash, but not necessarily better than using straight demons. We assume the reason to use CSM as main force is to bring at least 2 drakes in this case. Nurglings - I love the little excrement piles. Great objective campers, cheap and durable (barring any S6 templates - I'm looking at you, Dreadknight) Furies - with mark of khorne or slaanesh (I think slaanesh does more here) these guys are still te cheapest jump infantry in the game. 160 pts gets you a cloud of 20, and in an Afro army they are unparalleled as a deal with this or perish type distraction. Soul grinders - almost categorically better than our defilers these hulks bring av 13, shrouding, skyfire and the option of ordinance or S10 AP1 shots. Great utility, and if modeled correctly have a 2+ save behind an Aegis. Demon princes - they're just like the ones from Our codex but w different options. Mark of slaanesh with whip and iron arm is just crazy, 2d6 shots at 12" S7-9 w iron arm? Wow... Nurgle ones with shrouding are good too, but the main thing is a demon prince doesn't need to take a psychic power from their god-lore... They can have all of them from biomancy, increasing te chances of iron arming. There are other neat things demons bring to the table, like BS5 blood letters to man your gun emplacements, hordes of fast running +3", fleet rending demonettes, and of course divination. The sad thing for me is that you can only bring 1 herald in an allied detachment. Just my $0.02. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minionboy Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 I've had a pretty good time using IG as allies. Though, if I'm not mistaken, there is no way to have more than 1 vendetta, unless they're in a squadron, no? And if they're in a squadron they have to move together and fire at the same target etc? I want to build a demons army to ally into my CSM, and eventually stand on its own so I've been playing around with that. Things that I think demons can bring to the table to augment a chaos army are: Greater Demons - our demon prince is only T5, and in my experience doesn't stand up as the only monster out there. Adding any of the greater demons as allies, and bringing a heavy prince (maybe a 2nd hq prince from CSM) makes for a nice monster mash, but not necessarily better than using straight demons. We assume the reason to use CSM as main force is to bring at least 2 drakes in this case. Nurglings - I love the little excrement piles. Great objective campers, cheap and durable (barring any S6 templates - I'm looking at you, Dreadknight) Furies - with mark of khorne or slaanesh (I think slaanesh does more here) these guys are still te cheapest jump infantry in the game. 160 pts gets you a cloud of 20, and in an Afro army they are unparalleled as a deal with this or perish type distraction. Soul grinders - almost categorically better than our defilers these hulks bring av 13, shrouding, skyfire and the option of ordinance or S10 AP1 shots. Great utility, and if modeled correctly have a 2+ save behind an Aegis. Demon princes - they're just like the ones from Our codex but w different options. Mark of slaanesh with whip and iron arm is just crazy, 2d6 shots at 12" S7-9 w iron arm? Wow... Nurgle ones with shrouding are good too, but the main thing is a demon prince doesn't need to take a psychic power from their god-lore... They can have all of them from biomancy, increasing te chances of iron arming. There are other neat things demons bring to the table, like BS5 blood letters to man your gun emplacements, hordes of fast running +3", fleet rending demonettes, and of course divination. The sad thing for me is that you can only bring 1 herald in an allied detachment. Just my $0.02. Sadly, Nurglings aren't scoring, as they are swarms. You do make an interesting point about Furies that I hadn't thought of, but with only A1 each, I wonder if Seekers wouldn't be more effective. Overall, I'm pretty disappointed (something that if you know me, you know I rarely say) with Chaos Daemons as allies. I think they would have been a totally viable option if CSM icons could prevent them from scattering, as their own icons do, but that opportunity was missed. Looks like it's back to IG, Necrons, Ork and Tau allies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 icons arent the thing that stops demons from being realy good ally , the instability rule is . If one could put a tzeench herald in to a tzeench marked unit , people would be runing havocks or even oblits [probably oblits] with them . there would also probably someone crazy to use them in a plasma terminator spam army too. yet we dont have that , So we stick to the stuff which either works ok alone [grinders , DP , GD] or horde units[herald+pb. herald+netts]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkOne Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Ooohhhhh snap! I didn't realize that swarms didn't score! Back to the drawing board... The issue I see with seekers over furies is strictly cost. For 4 less points than 20 furies you get 13 seekers. 13 seekers have 39 base attacks, 52 on the charge, are WS5, S3 but die just the same as furies. 20 furies have 20 base attacks, 40 on the charge, S4, WS3, and 7 more wounds than the seekers. Seekers can also be difficult to maneuver in a large group due to cavalry bases. In either case including a herald with the exalted locus of beguilement and a steed w etherblades has always been the plan. Lets say a unit charging suffers 3 casualties on the charge from over watch, seekers lose 12 attacks, furies lose six. 40-36 attacks, retooling to hit, and seekers are faster... If I hadn't already started modeling my furies I'd give seekers serious consideration... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derpasaurus Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 I like the idea of guard or daemons. I'd personally go for guard due to my also having a sisters of battle list so they can pull double duty. My idea is either like the air cav idea or a cheap hq/troop and a line of leman russ tanks. That'd give either army some nice mobility or some serious firepower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornywingythingy Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 For 4 less points than 20 furies you get 13 seekers. 13 seekers have 39 base attacks, 52 on the charge, are WS5, S3 but die just the same as furies. 20 furies have 20 base attacks, 40 on the charge, S4, WS3, and 7 more wounds than the seekers. Seekers also get hammer of wrath, so cause 13 auto hits at i10.... You can also give them the move through cover locus on a herald and they won't take dangerous terrain..... I'm seriously sold on them tbh.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spear of Achilles Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 I run a Vraks style Tainted Guard army with my Chaos. Cultists really fit the image and with Pask manning a Punisher and a Black Mace DP of N or Tz taking the lead....such FUN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henrywalker Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Servants of decay for the win!!! plague ogryn, artillery strikes and chemical mortars (small blast ap3 poison 2+) cheap ablative wounds that let your lord infiltrate and all sorts of awesome crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastellan Kong Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 I'd also like to chime in on the Seekers vs Furies discussion. Seekers ld7. Furies ld2. Might not be an issue all the time, but having a unit evaporate because it lost combat by 1 or 2 could be annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonzi Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 I'm getting loads of mileage out of Daemonettes + Herald in my Noise Marine list. The speed and hitting power of the daemons is a nice complement to the durable shooting element that my CSM bring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerryrich Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Orcs are my current favorite. Big blob of shoota boys beats a big block of cultists anyday. big guns w/ a shock mech make for a great addition to a few backfield oblits and lets you be more agressive with said oblits. Add in a few grots to go to ground on a back field objective and you are golden. and lets face it they are CHEAP! Once in my spawn rush list i used a big block of Shoota boys and a Warphead. I had 15 spawn and 30 boys on my enemy in round 2. Locked him down till my Plagues and Lord showed up to finish them off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slayer le Boucher Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Personnaly i'm really tempted to take Necrons as allies, modeling them has old Rogue Trader Chaos Androids... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dar'kir Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 IG, mass up infantry squads w/ mortars, access to ordance. Works pretty well for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spear of Achilles Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 I've been running paired great unclean ones and x2 plague beares/x3 grinders + Typhus dual zombie horde, x2 oblits with mark/nurgle and heldrake....works well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 I'd also like to chime in on the Seekers vs Furies discussion. Seekers ld7. Furies ld2. Might not be an issue all the time, but having a unit evaporate because it lost combat by 1 or 2 could be annoying. This is really a non issue as you always would run a Herald in the unit of Furies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 Guard or Daemons. I lean daemons, not necessarily because it's stronger, but because it's something loyalist marines can't already do the same but better than us. Orcs and Crons are decent choices as well. But honestly? In the 1250 to 1850 point games I typically play, I generally don't have points for any allies at all. I mean, A couple drakes, a lord w/ bike escort, a couple CSM/Cultist squads, some oblits & havocs, ADL w/ quad, and I'm already pushing my usual points limit, if not over it. What of that do I drop, really? Not the drakes surely. I can drop the CSMs, I suppose, but that's not a lot of points to work with, and I'd end up spending what few points for allies I got out of it replacing the scoring troops I gave up to get them, instead of taking anything cool like a greater daemon or soulgrinder or guard fliers or the like. I suppose I could drop the bikes and run Huron instead of my lord, but I don't really want to run a named character not associated with my subfaction. Anyway, I guess what I'm saying is that unless you play particularly large games, you kind of have to build the whole list around your allies to fit them in at all. If you try to add allies to a regular CSM list, you'll run out of points before you get that far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebris Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 As an EC player I have tested both Guard (I have 150 models of them) and the Daemons, well it turned out that the Daemons have much more synergy with my army. The Guard is a solid ally, but it needs to fit well in your list. What the IG brings are guns, more guns, small guns, big guns and special guns, oh and armour too. I think that for an assault army like the Berzerker the IG is golden since it is able to sit behind an Aegis and deal with enemy units from range, thinning the dakka coming your berzerkers way. In fluff the IW would most certainly benefit from a solid artillery train that the IG can provide. Than you have the Deldar. But think that, wynches, hellions and other thing come second to Seekers of Slaanesh and Daemonettes of Slaanesh. Their job is the same, kill in melee, move fast and be a nasty support unit or a solid meat shied to place between your line and the enemy terminators. Well the Daemonettes work superbly in this role. I would go with the Deldar for some wierd things like monsters, poison and similar stuff but again you have to build your army around that theme and have a way to capitalize on the swift movement of the Deldar. Than is the Orks, well I love those guys. I have played a game with a Mekboy with Lootas and Shootas in support and damn they are awesome. The sheer weight of dakka those guys bring is more than enough to stop many armies in their tracks. Lastly is my favorite, Daemons. You have all flavors of them, ranged, melee, marine killers, terminator killers, vehicle killers, flying, tarpit...there is a daemon unit for every role you need them. Plaguebearers to sit on objectives, Daemonettes to kill marines and terminators and even threaten light vehicles, Bloodletters to simply obliterate power armor and even Tzeentch has some solid cards to play, Divination most of all. As an EC player my core is composed by Noise Marines, they are a ranged unit that is kitted to deal with marines thus I need something to stand between them and the enemy, to deal with enemy deathstars and to provide my army with a nice counter punch in assault. The Daemonettes are superb in this role and their Herald has the access to perhaps the best Loci in the codex with rerolls to hit and forced duel if I wish so, needless to say that the Discipline of Excess completes well the package. But hear me out, there is more onto Daemons. They are good to complete our core CSM army with a nice assortment of tricks. The Berzekers benefit much from a solid Bloodletter squad to take the charge and eat Overwatch fire, the Thousand Sons are good in concert with Horrors, Flamers and Screamers and the Plaguebearers are overall a great choice and even the beasties of Nurgle are good tarpit units for the army. So it all depends on your army setup, if you are a ranged thing you need some solid counterattack units, if you are a melee army you could benefit much from a first wave of daemon fodder and all types of army benefit from a solid Soul Grinder in support and some Plaguebearers on objectives... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 ...and then comes the realization that those allies would work better together without us :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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