Ravenwing vs chaos bat rep

[Boniface]

Last night I played a 2000 point game with this list.

Sammael 200

RWCS SoD, Apoth, Champ, GL 220

Master, Articifer, Mace of redemption, Auspex, jump pack melta bombs 165

 

RAS (6) 2 melta ABMM 236

RAS (6) 2 melta ABMM 236

RAS (6) 2 melta ABMM 236

RAS (6) 2 melta ABMM 236

 

RWBK (6) 2x GL 252

RWBK (5) GL, Power sword 217

 

He had something like

 

Typhus

 

4x 20 man Nurgle zombies

3x 3man obliterators

 

3 drakes.

Aegis line with comms relay.

 

It was a vanguard set up for big guns never tire. 5 objectives.

 

I set up and got first turn so I scouted up everything.

1st turn I moved 3 squads in range of he banner and unleashed a torrent of fire.

24 shots x 3 units did absolutely nothing.

He was getting a 4+ cover and feel no pain (plus his rolling was insane) I barely killed anything.

(Although in hindsight he might have used FnP when he wasn't allowed to.)

 

His turn he did some shooting and assaulting killing a squad of bikes with plasma cannons.

The assaults went in my favour mostly. I even hit and run a few times.

 

My turn 2. Another ineffective round of shooting although at this point I got my black knights involved. In close they tore everything apart. The master on the other hand got killed. Sadly it was not enough.

 

His turn 2

The drakes arrive and closed up shop. Unable to stay in CC I got mullered so badly that at the point (it was nearly 1 in the morning a well) I had 2 attack bikes Sammael and CS and the was about it. He had 3 full obit units most of 3 zombies typhus and 3 drakes.

 

Due to time as much as anything I forfeit.

 

In short whilst the list was alright his saves were epic an as soon as the dragons turned up it was game over they killed about 4 entire units alone.

 

Ravenwing need AA.

[Dread]

Nice report. I know how you feel. I think maybe a Nephilim or 2 might have helped. I wish I knew what to tell you about the drake thing but facing it alot myself. My game tonight was 1500 against necrons and I also got a good butt kicking. Have better ideas for next weeks game.  This may sound odd, but I'm taking my command squad out and adding more bikers, command got wasted by death ray, failed jinks and no FNP. Sounds like you faced a nurgle army, FLP is only against instant kill now and ravenwing just doesn't have any stength 10 weapons. Keep fighting for the Emperor!

[Gillyfish]

Hmm, it sounds like he took what is considered to be a hard counter to Ravenwing with his drakes. Is the intention that your list remains pure Ravenwing? If so, then your only option may be a Nephilim to harass the drakes and thin out some of his larger units. The latter perhaps being of greater importance. That will mean you'll need to sacrifice some more bikes, but of course his aegis line may counter the jetfighter.

 

It looks like with the plague zombies he was hoping to bog you down, so perhaps some Landspeeders might also have been a good choice, perhaps equipped with MLs and heavy bolters to thin them out. To be honest I think your list may well have struggled against his anyway.

 

If you're willing to go outside pure RW then you may have some quite nasty options to use to even the odds.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Instead of the master with jump pack, you might try a librarian on bike with prescience.. that will help with AA

[Boniface]

I'm fine with changing it up. I am totally ditching the master in this set up. Some changes I've been contemplating.

Azrael and command squad with SoD in pod straight swap with Sam and command.

Drop the 6 man BK and master replace with 5 man terminators, Librarian with PFG and possibly a techie with PFG.

Although I am also thinking that 4 LS Typhoons is a good idea. I'm basically trying to balance for all comers.

Alternative list.

Azrael 215
Command Squad, SoD, Drop Pod 200

Librarian L1 PFG 95 (in pod)
Techmarine PFG Bike 100

RAS (6) 2 melta ABMM 236
RAS (6) 2 flamer ABMM 226
RAS (6) LS typhoon 236
RAS (6) LS typhoon 236

RWBK (5) Psword 217

DWK (5) 235 or DW (5) PF/SB PC 235

1996

 

Or

 

Sammael 200
RWCS SoD, Apoth, Champ, GL 220

 

Librarian L1 PFG Infravision 100

Techmarine PFG Infravision 85

Techmarine PFG Infravision 85

 

RAS (6) 2 melta ABMM 236

RAS (6) 2 flamer ABHB 216
RAS (6) ABMM 216

Tactical (10) Meltagun Drop pod 185

 

Devastators (5) 4 lascannons 150

Devastators (5) 4 lascannons 150

Devastators (5) 4 lascannons 150

 

1993

[Chaplain Lucifer]

In list one azrael will give 4++ to his unit so the PFG on Lib is redundant IMHO. You also lack a GL on the BK squad. Still IMHo the list has no sinergy because the Sod will be on foot and the bikes will have to stay close to it so it will cut your mobility in later turns.

 

List 2 still leaves your scoring squads vulnerable to fliers or other menaces despite protectibg well your devastators which also are a glass cannon , vulnerable to massed small arms fire.

 

IMHo I would just fiddle with your original list until you get the hang of it.

[Brom MKIV]

 

IMHo I would just fiddle with your original list until you get the hang of it.

This is my impression too brother. Would you mind elaborating on a few things? 3 dragons is the Anathame to ravenwing but I think the results could have turned out a little less lopsided although I may be mistaken without more info.

-It sounds like you directed your firepower at the zombies? If not my mistake but if so that is one thing to correct. The oblits are his only source of firepower for 2 game turns and should eat every single shot in your army especially melta after rad grenades.

-Did the captain assault the oblits and get instagibbed? Or did he get accept a challenge with typhus perhaps and if so where was sammael?

-Lastly where were the black knights first turn? I didnt see much mention of these guys til later.

Anyway I may be way off base but this list is IMO is still ripe for a loss by your RW going first as you did so maybe just a different approach might be worthwhile.. For example, in the same scenario:

-combat squad your bike squads but still advance everything exactly the same.
-focus entirely on eliminating the obliterators (FB, 3 KPs) while avoiding assault as much as possible by parking speed bumps in front spread longwise. A couple sac units will deny his entire army.
-turn 2 get into assault with his zombies with your entire army and stay there for the game (LB = 5 kps).

-lastly the reason for combat squad is multi purpose, charge interdiction, but also splitting your army into many scoring units will make it hard for him to wipe out your last turn grabbers. If his dragons switch to hover disengage via H&R and nab objectives or even try to shoot them down.

[Boniface]

Ok to elaborate. The map was terrain heavy so getting about was tough.

 

My master got instana killed by an oblit. Typhus never did anything. (It was only 2 turns though)

 

Sammael didn't make it into assault I don't remember why now I think space was an issue. He was so close too.

 

I should have attacked the obliterators first in hind sight but it was my first 6th game and my first game in about 2-3 years. That and they were buried in zombies. Getting within range was difficult.

 

My black knights we're struggling to cross the board because of terrain (more room to move than anything else).

 

All in all I just got it all wrong.

 

I would like suggestions if you're willing on ways to improve I know the theory. Maybe I just need to make some changes and run it a few more times.

[Brom MKIV]

Very cool then welcome back to the game brother! Its a great time to be gaming aint it!

 

Ya im a fan of changing your approach before altering the list too much. Not saying a few changes arent good though, such as typhoons, devs, tweaks whatever.

 

The suggestions I gave above I feel would be a good place to start, basically just a threat analysis and your avenues to victory. Establish your strategy then try and impose it. 

 

You should have at least 1 round of shooting with the auspex in range possibly 2 and either way just fire through those zombies. Thing is he is getting a 4++ from the aegis which is better than that of intervening models anyway. The zombies are literally worthless except to charge you which is where your speed bumps come in until T2 when you dont care anyway. Also this way you get to overwatch the zombies instead of wasting valuable shooting on them and overwatching dakkawing is damn good. 

 

Also if you inflict enough wounds on those oblits he should see hes in a seriously tough spot: risk losing his only ranged elements and giving away KPs or go to ground and miss out on shooting anyway.

I can almost guarantee you he will GtG behind the aegis for a 2++ cover over losing the squads. Fine his threat is gone and theyre still just termies especially with rad giving T4 vs salvo 4 bolters. Now you have 2 turns to get rid of 18 T4 terminator wounds with TL bolters, plas and 12 instant death meltas. 

 

Avenue to victory: If you can destroy those 3 (or even 1 and keep the others from getting onto an objective) unit(s) over the course of an entire game but preferably by turn 2 you have a solid chance at winning by either hiding from baleflamers and/or bailing out with multiple scorers to claim objectives if the coast is semi clear. This is actually why zombies are not very good, they lower the value of heldrakes.

 

From there you can always get sneaky with other things like a few throw away shots at the comms to get his guys away from it before he rolls for reserves.  

 

Obviously this strategy will change mission dependent and so on but the general jist is the same against this list.

 

Lastly I would also work on objective placement. With ravenwing against a static army such as this put all your objectives in the far corner(s). Your bikes will reach them. He wont. This also protects better against heldrakes, especially because if your running larger terrain pieces he may not have LOS regardless of their turret BS.

[RedMoon]

terrain shouldn't be an issue for you just plow threw it lol. unless its impassable your bikes dont care. you get an armor save if you fail a dangerous check and your command and black nights even have skilled rider.