How to equip and use Bloodletters

[x01848m]

I am getting ready for my second game with the new Daemons in a few days, and have decided to add in Bloodletters to replace my Pink Horrors. In looking at them I think they will be best run in a 15-20 squad size. I plan to use one big block of 20 up the middle, for which I will use the grimoire of true names (with reroll from Fateweaver as needed) to help them weather the storm of GK strombolter shots which will be coming their way, and to mitigate their losses when they inevitably have to charge through cover without the benefit of grenades.

 

I am toying with the idea of adding in a Blood Reaper with lesser gift ether blade to help with terminators and picking out hammer wielding Justicars, but that means less bodies. How do people generally feel about this upgrade?

[Seahawk]

No less than 20, for sure. With no AP2 they'll definitely struggle against 2+ armor, so a champ with one of the various AP2 weapons is a must.

[Monkeychunks]

The obvious counterpoint to that is that one model in a 20-man unit, does not make the unit a good counter for 2+ saves. While I'm sure the Bloodreaper will be a nasty AP2 surprise he's going to drag all of his mates into a fight where those expensive Hellblades are wasted. While Bloodletters are nice and cheap, its still throwing a big chunk of points at something they aren't supposed to fight.

AP2 calls for larger quantities of low-AP attacks, which means either monsters or Rending. Neither of these should be a problem for a Daemon army!

 

An upgrade that is always worthwhile is the Locus of Rage, because that extra attack means a hell of a lot when they are WS5/S5/AP3. You should really try and get that bonus for as many Bloodletters as you can, and there are a few ways to do it. You could take multiple Heralds, splash out on a Blood Throne, or keep Skarbrand handy.

Bloodletters also work best when Deep-struck, because they are both slow and squishy. By dropping in on the enemies front door you should only have to endure a single turn of firepower, and even then a proper mix of fast elements will tie up some of that firepower for the critical turn. Always look into Icons and Instruments to orchestrate a truly horrible teleport attack of 2-3 units.

 

Finally, the Banner of Blood is a wonderful tool for getting that safe charge. Its not too expensive and if it gives you that assault, it could turn the game.

[minigun762]

For fluff reasons, I vote 16. I agree with adding an AP2 weapon to the champion, my vote is the etherblade due to master crafting.

 

An instrument seems like a worthwhile addition as well. I'm not sure on the icon & banner's worth but my gut says no.

[x01848m]

Daemonettes are definitely better than Bloodletters against terminators or anything else 2+, but Bloodletters are better against just about everything else (even light armor hordes like Orks and IG blobs, and especially power armor). I am just talking about damage output here, as of course daemonettes are more mobile. But Overall I prefer to take Bloodletters, and let my MC's deal with termies, as noted by Monkeychunks. But as I can't count on always avoiding terminators with my Bloodletters, I thought about the ether blade champ to help out in a pinch. Plus taking out annoying champs sometimes would be nice.

 

Deep striking them in is an interesting idea, although I would worry about bad scatters or late arrivals. I will have to think that over. But you are right, it could help with avoiding some shooting.

 

I love the idea of a herald, but my two HQs are Fateweaver and a Nurgle DP, who are both awesome. I do plan to use Fateweaver to cast prescience on them, though, which replicates a Khorne Herald buff. At some point when i have more models, perhaps I will try out a mono khorne list with a bloodthirster and heralds.

[Seahawk]

Well, it's not so much sending them into 2+ armor saves, it's when you get charged or stuck by 2+ save dudes. Insurance, rather than purpose.

[minigun762]

Well, it's not so much sending them into 2+ armor saves, it's when you get charged or stuck by 2+ save dudes. Insurance, rather than purpose.

exactly. Similar logic to a power fist or meltabomb in a MEQ squad.

I'd be fine with the basic etherblade but for +10 points, a S5/6 champion is tempting...

[Cheex]

To me, Bloodletters are more of a support unit than a shock unit; most of the damage in the army seems to be done by the characters and big Daemons, so I prefer to keep my Bloodletters reasonably cheap.

 

I don't really bother with the AP2 weaponry - if I need to deal with 2+ saves, I find that I have better tools for the job. Weight of attacks and monstrous creatures are often enough.

 

I actually quite like the flexibility that Instruments and Icons give. I like to deep strike a powerful unit or two each game, so having a small Bloodletter unit in reserve with an Instrument is a great way to essentially get a re-roll to your reserves rolls for the more important units. Having an Icon on the table gives you choices for those deep strikers, too. Obviously, you won't need to bother if you don't use deep strikers much, but I like having the ability.

 

In any case, keeping the squad cheap seems to be the key, IMHO.

[hornywingythingy]

The problem I'm hitting is running out of herald slots, I want karanak, and at least two daemonette heralds to give move through cover to my seeker squads, then a herald in one of my big daemonette squads... I'm out of slots then unless I don't take a GD...

[Seahawk]

Can't take more than 4 heralds per primary detachment anyway, regardless of whether you're using your other slot or not. Play 2k! :D

 

Also, fun fact: The Blue Scribes are not a herald, and thus take up a slot all by their lonesome.

[hornywingythingy]

Its the same with the masque too isn't it? I'm really struggling balancing my list atm, I think I'm spending too much on HQ stuff....

[minigun762]

I see no significant value in Khorne heralds. Anything they add can be gotten by just adding more 'letters.

[Iron Sage]

Eh, to me they seem to be a good addition to the unit itself. Alongside the champ, a herald brings additional nice AP 2 INIT 4 attacks. Will surely help a lot in challenges as well. In big units I would asume that its also worth getting Rage if you have a herald anyways.

 

Also, Herald on Juggernaught leading Bloodhounds seems nice due to Scout.

[minigun762]

Adding rage or hatred and some extra AP2 swings is nice but more bodies give you the equivalent of the loci powers and 'letters are wasted on 2+ save units even with a herald because the bulk of swings aren't getting through.

 

He's not bad, but I'd consider him a lower priority herald than Tzeentch or Slaanesh.

[Iron Sage]

Adding rage or hatred and some extra AP2 swings is nice but more bodies give you the equivalent of the loci powers and 'letters are wasted on 2+ save units even with a herald because the bulk of swings aren't getting through.

 

He's not bad, but I'd consider him a lower priority herald than Tzeentch or Slaanesh.

Oh, but I do agree 100%. I too rate Tzeentch and Slaanny before the khornate, but I do certainly rate Khorne heralds above the Nurgle ones (true. FNP is good and all that, but otherwise, they kind of suck compared to thye other 3)

[minigun762]

Yeah, Nurgle Herald is there for FnP and that's about it. If you're using less than 20 plaguebearers in a squad, I'd much rather just add bodies to the squad over a Nurgle Herald and frankly, 20 plaguebearers and a herald is overkill for camping an objective.

[GenEngineer]

I would say that the Slaanesh and Tzeentch Heralds are an additive addition to the squad, whereas Nurgle and Khorne are multiplicative.

 

Think about it. The Slaanesh Loci don't really scale, they're a static addition. Tzeentch hypothetically scales in thy more horrors means more dice, but it's so small it might as well just be a flat bonus for the +1 S (the only Tzeentch Locus worth using).

 

As for Nurgle and Khorne, the bonuses are actively based on the number on the squad. Rage and Hatred scale with the number of attacks, and Feel no Pain is better the more models are their to take advantage of the save. So yes, for Khorne an Nurgle, it's better to avoid a Herals unless the unit is maxed out.

[Brother Ambroz]

I've seen alot of batreps where Slaaneshi heralds do really well with the greater aetherblade and a large unit of seekers.

 

Haven't seen much use out of khornate heralds yet though. I think it's a better idea to use really large units of letters with instruments and banner. I'm very interested to find a way to use letters though as I've got 30-40 of them laying about.

[Cheex]

I've had some really good experience with a Khorne Herald on Juggernaut leading a big unit of Flesh Hounds.

 

I don't see much point in them leading Bloodletters, unless you really need another AP2 weapon. The Loci are reasonable force modifiers, but so far I still like to keep my Bloodletter squads as cheap as possible, so adding a herald just makes them too pricey.

 

Though I have also tried Karanak leading Bloodletters, just to give them Scout. Didn't really help in that game, but it's a useful option to have.

[minigun762]

I would say that the Slaanesh and Tzeentch Heralds are an additive addition to the squad, whereas Nurgle and Khorne are multiplicative.

 

Think about it. The Slaanesh Loci don't really scale, they're a static addition. Tzeentch hypothetically scales in thy more horrors means more dice, but it's so small it might as well just be a flat bonus for the +1 S (the only Tzeentch Locus worth using).

 

As for Nurgle and Khorne, the bonuses are actively based on the number on the squad. Rage and Hatred scale with the number of attacks, and Feel no Pain is better the more models are their to take advantage of the save. So yes, for Khorne an Nurgle, it's better to avoid a Herals unless the unit is maxed out.

In my mind, Slaanesh and Tzeentch add unique capabilities to their squads.

Slaanesh turns them from a horde assault unit into a very solid character assassination squad.

Tzeentch (with focus) increases their firepower's strength from the anti-infantry level to light anti-tank level. That's a big jump in flexibility and utility.

 

Nurgle does add FnP but unless you're already running a fairly large sized squad of plaguebearers, it's probably more effective to just add more bodies to the squad.