Ishagu Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 For example, if the agreed point limit is 1000 and someone put together a list that added up to 1005? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fibonacci Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Limits are limits. 1005 is over the point limit. That said, if it is you and your friends, do what ever you think is right. But here, we play under the limit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Orlock Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 It was discussed in editions of the game in the distant past, but currently, and for the last several editions, no. 1000 points is a hard limit and often there's notes in the preambles and appendicies about not being able to spend all them and that that's okay. In my experience, allowing leeway just means that you've upped the points limit by that much 'cause everyone will take the leeway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGPO Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 It honestly depends on your oponent. For any sort of competitive play or with established collections the vast majority will stick to the limit. If you're playing a friendly game against someone with a new army under construction with limited models at their disposal, or if for any other reason they can't easily tweak their list to get it under the limit (say in a WFB game with an all monster list for example) then I'd probably say let them use it. In most games though there's something you can trim, especially if your oponent is flexible with WYSIWYG until you can sort an appropriate model. An easy way to avoid this situation is to collect your initial army to a list at your usual playing limit, then build it up in chunks of say 250-500 points. That way you can always put together a legal force, and tweak it as your collection grows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Once or twice I've been playing a guy whose 5pts, maybe 10 over, and I've said "fair enough, I'll just take this instead". But, limits are limits. That guy didn't realise his list was over. When making your list don't sit there at 5pts over and think "no one will mind". That's showing a lack of respect to your opponent, and putting them in a tough spot. So basically, limits are limits, you need to keep to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 What bugs me is when players say "do you mind my list being 5pts over" when they can easily drop something. Instead of 16 Termagants you take 15, you drop those melta bombs, get rid of that combi weapon or Whip Coil and be 5pts under. You can do it and I don't care if it was part of your strategy - I made my strategy choosing between an extra combi weapon or something else, so can you! Sounds harsh but the point is it's easy to reduce your points expenditure so there isn't an excuse not to put the effort in. ***edit*** That wasn't meant to be directed at anyone in particular, rather it was a tirade aimed at past experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Some of my old gaming groups have had a simple rule: if you are over by less than the cost of your least expensive upgrade then your ok, no more than 5pts. But then... we also had upwards of 16 players on a field and games that ranged from 500 to 1750 per player, so a little leeway for 'rule of cool' was thought to be ok. Tournaments, pickup games, etc- always go under or equal to the limit. With your friends, talk it over and have a basic ground rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 What bugs me is when players say "do you mind my list being 5pts over" when they can easily drop something. Instead of 16 Termagants you take 15, you drop those melta bombs, get rid of that combi weapon or Whip Coil and be 5pts under. You can do it and I don't care if it was part of your strategy - I made my strategy choosing between an extra combi weapon or something else, so can you! Sounds harsh but the point is it's easy to reduce your points expenditure so there isn't an excuse not to put the effort in. ***edit*** That wasn't meant to be directed at anyone in particular, rather it was a tirade aimed at past experience. On the other hand, there was the previous Codex: Dark Angels, where I usually ended up 10 points over or 50 points short. That being said, I play with a group who really don't care that much when it comes to a couple of points, and usually respond with "Nice, then I can put some meltabombs on [character]." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 I bet you could have changed something. I challenge anyone to build me a list from a current Codex, or the previous DA if you have to, which I wouldn't be able to change somewhere to make it legal and under the points. And if there is a single Codex out there which had that problem then it's probably the only one/replaced. DA was probably the most difficult with Deathwing armies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Well that depends on your restrictions- a deathwing list was very, very limited in its options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Apart from that in itself was a self-imposed restriction placed by the player... You don't have to only take terminators after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Deathwing to an extent, but then I've seen players take Librarian when they could have taken a slightly cheaper Dread, or even not HAVE put Storm Shields on every model. And besides, the point is now moo as we have a new Codex. Don't get me wrong I have let people go over in the past, but I do think it's disrepectful to your opponent when it can be avoided. Actually I'd like to clarify what annoys me most about my opponents doing this; you're told before the game he's over and asked if that's ok, then you play the game and find out he has stuff he COULD have dropped. Many friendly games don't check lists or do so at the end of the game by tradition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Captain Stacius Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 I normally do the same method of "is your cheapest upgrade taking you over?" If it is, lose it. My current list stands at 1496 and I would love to stick melta bombs on a sarge but won't. Lol in my current gaming group my opinion is not shared by all, so we end up with some imbalance. Although it might be 'just' 5 points, that could equate to a dead land raider, and when looked at like that, you have to think how you would feel in the same scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awfulawful Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 A friend of mine tried to do this a few times. He'd show up with a list that was over by six points, including two Land Raiders with three-point smoke launchers (or whatever the actual numbers were from the old DH codex). He would argue that it was just a few points, but it really could be the difference between me popping those raiders or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fibonacci Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 From my experience, if you allow 10 points over, the new list target becomes 2010 points. Then it becomes 2015 because it's just 5 points over what we usually run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 From my experience, if you allow 10 points over, the new list target becomes 2010 points. Then it becomes 2015 because it's just 5 points over what we usually run. And then it becomes even more, which is why it's best to say no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 A limit is a hard limit, nothing more. If the difference is playing your army at 5pts over or 15pts under, then go 15pts under. I personally strive to get every single point I can out of my list to the max limit; if I'm even 1pt short, I will rework it until the list fits perfectly at the limit set for the game. And if I can do that, so can my opponent. SJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Res Ipsa Loquitur Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 I personally wouldn't care because I try not to be uptight about things that ultimately don't matter. I'd just whack Melta Bombs on my Priest or another VV and the limit would be 2005pts or 1505pts or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.darkness Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Definitely a hard limit. I they are new and only have so many does then I just ask how many they have, and match that. Another similar thing I hate is when people put together a list on the spot and say, 'that's about right' even nwhen I offer them a calculator, and sometimes even their codex! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spafe Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Another similar thing I hate is when people put together a list on the spot and say, 'that's about right' even nwhen I offer them a calculator, and sometimes even their codex! I'm guilty of this, although normally its cause I have limited time so want to start the game. I dont think I've ever been over though, so I'm not sure if that counts (IE I have a 1500 list and my oppenant can only field 1000, I'll drop my termies for 263, and a tank for 115 and a unit for 145, know that htis about 500 and go, rather than work it all out, then build up units to bulk out the 20-30 points im under as my units are designed as a unit, (and built for that point cost)). Dunno if that would bother you or not lol I also do that with my oppenant, I had 1500 and they had 2k so they dropped a unit worth 260, and a tank worth 100 and a dred worth 100 and I just said thats fine, set up from that mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YAK Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 I'll chime in for the hard limit side... if you can't shave 5 points off to make your list legal you likely aren't very good at this game in general. i'm not a WAAC player but i do like a challenge.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 For example, if the agreed point limit is 1000 and someone put together a list that added up to 1005? nope . that is illegal . you can bring less , but you cant bring more points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Angel Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 In friendly games I'll spot you 5 points but not in competitive play. There are almost always some to give melta bombs to0 but cry when I frag you 200 point monolith with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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