controversial painting question - opinions please!

[marvmoogy]

Right guys, this is a fluff and opinion jobby.....

 

Am I right in thinking that Veteran Sergeants are members of the Deathwing?

 

If so, what would the consensus be for me to paint my vet sergeants in bone armour a la Deathwing?

 

It's just an idea I'm toying with at the moment!

[Finn]

As far as I know, Vet. Sergeant CAN be a member of the Deathwing. Back in the day, it was supposed to be displayed on the model with him wearing crux terminatus. However, I'm not sold on painting his power armour bone - if you're using robes, giving him a different paintjob would give you ANOTHER differently painted model in an army which already has 3 different paint schemes.

[marvmoogy]

I see the point about a rainbow-army....but it isn't really a new paint scheme, just a termie paint scheme on a PA marine.  I guess it damages uniformity a little but it does give something different to the army.

[Komodo]

I've seen somewhere in old WD, that some HQ or/and vets were painted bone.

[Rikera]

Deathwing don't take to the field in anything less than terminator armor. So in a purely fluff sense there's no bone coloured power armor suits. Look at company masters, they have all previously been in the deathwing and yet when wearing power armor its your usual dark green.

 

Don't mean to pss on your fire m8 but i think the whole concept of the deathwing is that if your currently serving in it then you fight in terminator armor and WITH the rest of the deathwing forces.

 

Think along the lines of the Phalanx.

[pueriexdeus]

Original Deathwing were painted White and wore PA, as the mythos of the 40K universe expanded the DW became the TDA Company and White turned to Bone White.

 

The Dark Mellinium game box displayed a nice White and Green  PA Deathwing member, you'll also not in the background a White TDA. There are some White GW representations of DW in early magazines etc.

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/pueriexdeus/DarkMillennium_zps26fc14b7.jpg

[marvmoogy]

I get what you're saying about the DW, but looking at fluff, how can you 'previously' be in the DW?  Once you're in, you're in.  If you get promoted to DW Knight then to a Master of a Company, you're still a member of the DW just in a different role.

 

It's be like saying Azrael, Sammy or Asmodai aren't in the DW because they wear Power Armour....wouldn't it?

[Rikera]

I get what you're saying about the DW, but looking at fluff, how can you 'previously' be in the DW?  Once you're in, you're in.  If you get promoted to DW Knight then to a Master of a Company, you're still a member of the DW just in a different role.

 

It's be like saying Azrael, Sammy or Asmodai aren't in the DW because they wear Power Armour....wouldn't it?

 

There is a difference between the Deathwing and The inner circle which alot of people seem to confuse. Also, yes i am saying that neither of those 3 are CURRENTLY in the deathwing.

[Interrogator Stobz]

True but they wear Green, black and black respectively, Zeke is also in the DW and wears blue. Only the First Company members (currently serving) are meant to wear the white. DW Inner circle and others revert to unit/appointment colours.

That's just my current 'fluff' answer, my actual opinion on whether or not you can do it is YOU SURE CAN!!! they are your models and as Pueriexdeus showed, take fluff from any era you want to and enjoy.

s

Edit: too slow, in reply to marvmoogy

For vets, they look cool in white, get doing it and post some pics

[marvmoogy]

cheers for the interpretation to-and-fro!  Always helps to debate things out a bit.

 

I do need to get on to painting....

 

I've been doing a lot of building recently, but need to get through 6x tactical squads, 2x dev squads, 3x dreads, 3x Razorbacks/Rhino, 1x DP, 1x LRC, about 25 termies and 1x complete RAS squad.

 

I think I'll be painting until this time next year :(

[Interrogator Stobz]

Turn that frown upside down :P It's totally worth the effort :tu:

[marvmoogy]

haha - like your style!

 

I'm not going to be in a position to buy anything for quite a while in a few months, so I'm trying to get it all bought now.  I want a full battle company with DW & RW support.

 

I've got the assault squads and 1 tactical box (to maker the dev's 10-men) to get to make up the company done excluding armour.  I want 1 squad of Deathwing Knights, the FW DA venerable dread to go with my Chappy dread and a LR then my DA is finished.

 

RW is quite straight forward.  I have 1x RAS,  I'll get one more,  about 3 boxes of knights to make a command squad and some knights to go with Sammy and a couple of speeders.

 

Then, add in the armour (2x pred, a couple of rhinos, a couple more pods a linebacker sqaudron, storm eagle, dark talon, nephilim, and convert a good-looking "fugly-speeder" then I can say I'm done......

 

until I decide I want MORE!!! haha

[Azoriel]

Deathwing don't take to the field in anything less than terminator armor. So in a purely fluff sense there's no bone coloured power armor suits. Look at company masters, they have all previously been in the deathwing and yet when wearing power armor its your usual dark green.

 

Don't mean to pss on your fire m8 but i think the whole concept of the deathwing is that if your currently serving in it then you fight in terminator armor and WITH the rest of the deathwing forces.

 

Think along the lines of the Phalanx.

Actually, in Angels of Darkness, the power armored marines all paint their armor bone white after Boreas inducts them into the Deathwing.  Also, in the 3rd Edition codex, you could pay extra points to induct your vet sergeants into the Deathwing (and they'd still be wearing power armor after the fact).  As such, Deathwing could (interchangably) be used to refer to the first company, as well as having been read into the most basic level of knowledge pertaining to the fallen.

[GlauG]

I've seen somewhere in old WD, that some HQ or/and vets were painted bone.

 

This was someone's Golden Demon winning entry, I believe, it was all of the DA special characters circa 1998 or so with bone armour, and their robes painted the colour their armour would be, so Ezekiel's was blue, for example (except someone had purple, IIRC?).  I loved the idea, actually, and am still sometimes tempted to use it myself. 

[Razblood]

Also there have been depictions of power armoured DW in the days of 1st and early days of 2nd Ed, mostly painted by the eavy metal teams of the time.

 

I'd say having a Bone coloured helm or pauldrons would be nice without making him look too different. Perhaps modifying the standard DA chapter badge into a DW badge too.

[Nemo vas Varya]

 

I've seen somewhere in old WD, that some HQ or/and vets were painted bone.

 

This

was someone's Golden Demon winning entry, I believe, it was all of the

DA special characters circa 1998 or so with bone armour, and their robes

painted the colour their armour would be, so Ezekiel's was blue, for

example (except someone had purple, IIRC?).  I loved the idea, actually,

and am still sometimes tempted to use it myself. 

 

The Supreme Grand Master is marked with a purple cape or robe. Same with the company masters.

[Gillyfish]

Ultimately (and perhaps, unhelpfully) it's up to you. As has been stated above, you can find reasons to paint them bone. I'm currently painting up a Deathwing librarian in terminator armour in bone. Not a speck of blue on him at present. The reason for doing that is that it harkens back to previous editions. So I don't think there's a strong reason for not doing that if you can justify it for your force.

 

If it helps, I've also seen people paint their DA bone and green (predominantly the latter though) and that looks good, so why not?

[Rikera]

 

Deathwing don't take to the field in anything less than terminator armor. So in a purely fluff sense there's no bone coloured power armor suits. Look at company masters, they have all previously been in the deathwing and yet when wearing power armor its your usual dark green.

 

Don't mean to pss on your fire m8 but i think the whole concept of the deathwing is that if your currently serving in it then you fight in terminator armor and WITH the rest of the deathwing forces.

 

Think along the lines of the Phalanx.

Actually, in Angels of Darkness, the power armored marines all paint their armor bone white after Boreas inducts them into the Deathwing.  Also, in the 3rd Edition codex, you could pay extra points to induct your vet sergeants into the Deathwing (and they'd still be wearing power armor after the fact).  As such, Deathwing could (interchangably) be used to refer to the first company, as well as having been read into the most basic level of knowledge pertaining to the fallen.

 

In 6th edition codex tactical marines dont have "the inner circle" special rule. In the 6th edition codex it says that they ONLY take to the field in power armor. In the 6th edition codex it states that the progression is: deathwing, deathwing knight then master. We could quote our thebooks all days...

 

Deathwing may well "could" be used to refer to the first company back in the day but not now. Deathwing IS the first company, Deathwing ONLY take to the field in terminator armor, Deathwing IS the first step into the inner circle and company masters are NOT part of the Deathwing but ARE part of the inner circle.

 

Read the most up to date codex and quote me wrong from that.

 

Ofcourse he can paint his models anyway he likes. I'm just trying to clear up the common misunderstanding that every man and his dog is in the Deathwing and shall remain there for all of eternity. It was said in a few posts that Ezekiel, asmodai, Azrael and Sammael are all part of the Deathwing, they are not. Infact 2 of them have never been in the deathwing and never will. All are part of The inner circle in some way. The difference between the two is where people seem to get confused.

[elphilo]

Usually how I represent my Sergeants that have been inducted into the Inner Circle, I put them in robes. So green PA with a bone robe. It gives them the color of the Deathwing, but still doesn't look too out of place in a sea of green

But like others have said, its your models and the rule of cool is what you should follow. Fluff changes so fast that you'll be repainting everything ever 2 months if you want to keep up with it

[Cloud Runner]

I used to paint the left inner pad in the bone white for a vet sgt to denote that very fact - they are a veteran, so they would have been inducted into the first company; this of course pre-dates the 3rd ed codex, but still applies now in my mind!

 

For my upcomning heresy themed army, I'll be using the white pads to denote Calibanite veterans in a similar way that the Blood Angels have a different shoulder scheme for their sergeants.

 

Hope that helps :)

[marvmoogy]

taking the fluff on a bit further.....

 

What's the progression look like?   I know the usual is Scout - Devastator - Assault - Tactical but after that is it Sergeant - Deathwing - Deathwing Sergeant - Veteran Sergeant - Deathwing Knight - Company Master...?

 

How does it work for a tactical marine in a battle company?

 

Cheers :)

[facmanpob]

Tactical Marines can go straight into the Deathwing if the circumstances are correct.....it happens in 'Ravenwing' by Gav Thorpe....:)

[Rikera]

taking the fluff on a bit further.....

What's the progression look like? I know the usual is Scout - Devastator - Assault - Tactical but after that is it Sergeant - Deathwing - Deathwing Sergeant - Veteran Sergeant - Deathwing Knight - Company Master...?

How does it work for a tactical marine in a battle company?

Cheers

I think the whole veteran sergeant after the deathwing may no longer exist. The company veterans, sometimes they fight as a unit (the codex entry) but alot of the time they are part of their parent squad/unit. So the veteran sergeant just appears to be a company veteran with the rank of sergeant.

Also not sure where the ravenwing come is as at some point along the line they are also selected for that if they show prowess in fast attack or on bikes??

[elphilo]

taking the fluff on a bit further.....

What's the progression look like? I know the usual is Scout - Devastator - Assault - Tactical but after that is it Sergeant - Deathwing - Deathwing Sergeant - Veteran Sergeant - Deathwing Knight - Company Master...?

How does it work for a tactical marine in a battle company?

Cheers

I think the whole veteran sergeant after the deathwing may no longer exist. The company veterans, sometimes they fight as a unit (the codex entry) but alot of the time they are part of their parent squad/unit. So the veteran sergeant just appears to be a company veteran with the rank of sergeant.

Also not sure where the ravenwing come is as at some point along the line they are also selected for that if they show prowess in fast attack or on bikes??

In the Ravenwing book by Gav Thorpe, the Veteran Sergeant that leads the 5th Company element is an Inner Circle member. Therefore at some point in his career he was a member of the Deathwing. So I think its very fluffy to have a Deathwing member given the Veteran Sergeant post in a Tactical Squad.

[Brother Immolator]

taking the fluff on a bit further.....

What's the progression look like? I know the usual is Scout - Devastator - Assault - Tactical but after that is it Sergeant - Deathwing - Deathwing Sergeant - Veteran Sergeant - Deathwing Knight - Company Master...?

How does it work for a tactical marine in a battle company?

Cheers

I think the whole veteran sergeant after the deathwing may no longer exist. The company veterans, sometimes they fight as a unit (the codex entry) but alot of the time they are part of their parent squad/unit. So the veteran sergeant just appears to be a company veteran with the rank of sergeant.

Also not sure where the ravenwing come is as at some point along the line they are also selected for that if they show prowess in fast attack or on bikes??

In the Ravenwing book by Gav Thorpe, the Veteran Sergeant that leads the 5th Company element is an Inner Circle member. Therefore at some point in his career he was a member of the Deathwing. So I think its very fluffy to have a Deathwing member given the Veteran Sergeant post in a Tactical Squad.

However would he carry a terminator cross or a crux terminatus in the shoulder pad?