So, Dreadclaws...

[totgeboren]

I was just looking at the rules for the Dreadclaw, and even though they seem overcosted, they might just not be.

If I remember correctly, a flyer that deep strikes count as zooming, meaning it is hard to hit. The Dreadclaw can also jink as is is a flyer, meaning it is as durable as a Heldrake.

The turn after that, it can hover, so can travel 6", have the passengers disembark within 2" of the hull (special disembark rules) and then assault because it is an assault transport vehicle, and on top of that, it has Frag Assault Launchers, meaning they get to strike at normal I!

So the threat range is 8"+2D6 assault from the point where the claw dropped.

 

I'm thinking two, one with a dread and one with... *drumroll...* Possessed!

 

I know, Possessed suck, but with such a transport and frags, they might not be all that bad. Or, it's the other way around perhaps. I have a squad of Possessed, and I want to use them, but they need a transport and they need frags to be able to do their job properly...

 

Anyway, my thoughts about the Dreadclaw was simply that it seems incredibly durable (who here has shot down a Heldrake in one turn?), and is an assault vehicle that gives frags and that can deep strike (though I would have preferred if it arrived like a normal flyer). Both Possessed and Helbrutes seem like they would be much happier deploying by Claw than having to cross the entire table.

 

On the other hand, a Helbrute+Claw is almost as much as two dreads, and two dreads might be a bit more dangerous after all, considering the lifespan of AV12 walkers in close combat (though I might just use my power scourge arm instead of the plasma cannon if I deployed it like this).

 

So, do you think the Dreadclaw is a useful addition to our armoury, or is just a case of throwing pearls to pigs?

[Shuggnuggath]

Ask your opponent if you can proxy for a few games. That way you can 'try before you buy'.

[henrywalker]

the dreadclaw is awesome, it can move, let your guys out, they then more and shoot and assault. 

 

i've seen loads of people do an easy conversion. basically take a drop pod and flip all 5 fins round the other way. i'll post mine tomorrow.

 

Give them a try, they are worth the points

[Warsmith Aznable]

We did have a brief discussion of the Dreadclaw back in February, but I myself have a new question or two about it.

 

The newest ruleset for them is in Imperial Armour Aeronautica. What I don't know is if the 6th edition vehicle update from FW applies to it, because it has the note in it that it could be made into a Daemon Engine, which is absent from the Aeronautica book. Forgeworld is such a mess because it is constantly putting the same model with different rules in multiple books...

 

When it comes to a flyer that deepstrikes, it is flying at speed, yes? So it should be immune to terrain and models beneath it? So no worries if it deepstrikes on top of another unit?

 

The 40k flying base system is wonky, because it gets to be considered up in the air, but the base means you can't place it over things it should otherwise be considered flying over.

 

In my mind a deepstriking flyer shouldn't have to worry about whether a unit is below it for purposes of arriving safely.

 

In my mind a zooming flyer shouldn't have to worry about where it's base is at any time, and I've been tempted to make a wire-frame flying base that can be positioned so as to allow a zooming flyer to be anywhere it wants to be. The flying base should only be an issue if it enters hover mode. And it never had a base before, since it was a hovering type vehicle and you just put it on the table and measured from the hull.

[dswanick]

the dreadclaw is awesome, it can move, let your guys out, they then more and shoot and assault. 

 

i've seen loads of people do an easy conversion. basically take a drop pod and flip all 5 fins round the other way. i'll post mine tomorrow.

 

Give them a try, they are worth the points

http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l634/dswanick/Warhammer%2040000/Work%20in%20Progress/Pre-HeresyDreadclaw.jpg

[totgeboren]

Oh, I missed that earlier thread. But still, as was pointed out, as long as you deep strike in a relatively safe place within 24" of the place you want to go, you can just go flat-out in the shooting phase and place yourself in the exact spot you want to deploy in. Not as good as a drop pod, but not incredibly dangerous either.

I'm thinking that a Land Raider Proteus (re-roll reserve rolls) and two-three pods full of nasty stuff might work ok. If one really wants to be mean, two dragons on top of that would be brutal. A bit like abusing the rules, but having three pods and two dragons arriving during turn two would mean your opponent has 5 flying AV12 5++ save things to try and destroy in one turn, or else he will be in a world of hurt. Of course, if he manages to destroy the Proteus turn 1 the assault might get a bit unsynchronised. But the LR has the scout rule, and is an AV 14 tank with 4 hull points. It should not be all that difficult to get a coversave or just redeploying it in a less exposed position if your opponent has some killy guns.

And @dswanick. That is pretty neat, though I'm thinking about just making the parts I need and casting them myself. I only need to make one wall section, one fin, one top and one bottom and just make casts of em. It looks like a really easy model to make oneself. It can even be made using only one-part molds!

On the other hand the GW pod isn't all that expensive, and the conversions you guys have done does look pretty nice. I would add more 'claw' bits though.

[Warsmith Aznable]

Here's mine:

Here is the tutorial I used to make it.

[Vesper]

I had plan for a couple of Dreadclaws, but I find their rules plain awful.

Once you've made it through the catastrophic writing and the FAQs to figure how it actually works, they are lacking because they don't have any weapon, they don't have drop-pod assault for some reason and they still cost a lot while taking a FA slot.

[the jeske]

who here has shot down a Heldrake in one turn?),

with FW? sentry guns behind an aegis have a very good chance to take one down .

 

 

I'm thinking that a Land Raider Proteus (re-roll reserve rolls) and

two-three pods full of nasty stuff might work ok. If one really wants to

be mean, two dragons on top of that would be brutal

how do you get 2-3 pods and drakes , when both are FA options ?

 

 

 

 

 

In my mind a zooming flyer shouldn't have to worry about where it's base

is at any time, and I've been tempted to make a wire-frame flying base

that can be positioned so as to allow a zooming flyer to be anywhere it

wants to be. The flying base should only be an issue if it enters hover

mode. And it never had a base before, since it was a hovering type

vehicle and you just put it on the table and measured from the hull.

yeah but without a base isnt it hard to check the range of weapons to the flyer ?

[Warsmith Aznable]

 

 

 

In my mind a zooming flyer shouldn't have to worry about where it's base

is at any time, and I've been tempted to make a wire-frame flying base

that can be positioned so as to allow a zooming flyer to be anywhere it

wants to be. The flying base should only be an issue if it enters hover

mode. And it never had a base before, since it was a hovering type

vehicle and you just put it on the table and measured from the hull.

yeah but without a base isnt it hard to check the range of weapons to the flyer ?

 

You check the weapon range to the model, not the base. This is my understanding of it.

[Danny Cyanide]

Not on a Heldrake! 12 inches in any direction from the base.

[totgeboren]

 

how do you get 2-3 pods and drakes , when both are FA options ?

 

I don't know to be honest. I read the rules this morning and thought they were 1-3 per FA. Still, a single Dreadclaw could make Possessed useful at least.

[dswanick]

 

 

how do you get 2-3 pods and drakes , when both are FA options ?

 

I don't know to be honest. I read the rules this morning and thought they were 1-3 per FA. Still, a single Dreadclaw could make Possessed useful at least.

2 FoCs?

[totgeboren]

 

 

 

how do you get 2-3 pods and drakes , when both are FA options ?

 

I don't know to be honest. I read the rules this morning and thought they were 1-3 per FA. Still, a single Dreadclaw could make Possessed useful at least.

2 FoCs?

Yeah, but at that level you are better off playing apoc I think.

[the jeske]

yeah and at 2k+ your probably looking at a FW opponent with ally or main guard force sporting anything from 6 to 12 sentry guns , which make every type of flyer sad [save for the vector dancer eldar ones which are cheating bastards and should not be used].

 

 

You check the weapon range to the model, not the base. This is my understanding of it.

 

Not on a Heldrake! 12 inches in any direction from the base.

this , now I know FW tells us that they have their own rules and we shouldnt be looking at w40k core stuff , but the FAQ does seem to point out that a flyers base is important .

[Marshal Goderic]

I've got two claws, easily my biggest problem is which rules do they use. Those are nice conversion but no offense it's not close due to size, the claw is significantly bigger than either the SM pod or it's upside-down counterpart, although who's going to 'buy' those now?

Is the consensus that the most updated rules for the dreadclaw are in the new IA Aeronautica?

[dswanick]

Is the consensus that the most updated rules for the dreadclaw are in the new IA Aeronautica?

Yep.

[Slayer le Boucher]

Also don't forget that a Dreadclaw, the turn it arrive on the table, can still move 24" in the shooting phase when he Flat out.

 

You can go land in a relatively safe spot, if you are afraid of DS mishaps, and still redeploy 24", wich is awesome.

 

Now i only hope that when they remake Dreadclaws rules, they will come in play starting Turn 1 for the first half and the rest later, like SM Pods.

 

And now that i think of it, because the Dreadclaw is a flyer, he doesn't care about DS Mishaps...

 

If i'm not wrong the rules for Flyers with their base says that if they move or if a unit move "under" them, you have to put either of them at a minimum of 1" from the flyer's base.

 

SO people where bashing on the DC because it was not immune to DS mishaps has the Pods, but in fact its even better!!!

[the jeske]

if it deep strikes it very much does suffer from mishaps . If it doesnt it enters alike any other non outflank flyer would.

[totgeboren]

It just says it enters play using the deep strike rules. But what Slayer was getting at is that you only need to deep strike within 24" of the place you want to go, as you can flat out 24" in your movement phase and just place your Dreadclaw wherever you want. Ok, there is still a risk of mishap, but you can often fairly easily find a place with no enemies and not to close to the board edge. The rules also says that a flyer does not need to take dangerous terrain tests even if it starts or stops over terrain, even impassible terrain (and by extension that in can be placed on these things). Deep strike mishaps are only triggered if the model cannot be deployed (which in the case of a flyer can only be triggered by landing outside the table, on top of a friendly model or within 1" of an enemy).

 

Also, you actually want the Dreadclaw to enter away from where you want it to go, as going flat out means you get a 4+ jink save. So it's even more durable than the Heldrake.

[Brother Ambroz]

You guys are convincing me to convert up a couple drop pods as dreaclaws....Where are the rules for these again? Aeronautica 1?

[Slayer le Boucher]

Yup the latest rules are in Imperial Armour; Aeronautica.

[Vesper]

Wait wait wait.

So the Dreadclaw allows a charge by turn 3 if you flat out, right ?

[Fibonacci]

Wait wait wait.

So the Dreadclaw allows a charge by turn 3 if you flat out, right ?

Yep.

But then so does a Rhino.  The big difference is the Dreadclaw is more likely to make it to its destination intact.

[Vesper]

And turn two if you're lucky with reserves and ok to take the risk of disembarking next to the enemy, right ?