Legionator Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Word Bearers turns heretic approximately fifty years before Davin incident. I wonder how could they keep their secret so long? In Deliverance Lost, Corax says the WB chaplain was stinking something bad (Chaos taint). Word Bearers even had some possessed marines before the HH and the Emperor was around until two years before Davin. Didn't the Emperor or Malcador go to a campaign with Word Bearers? How is it possible that our glourious Emperor or Custodians couldn't sense the smell of taint in Word Bearers? Or couldn't any innocent WB marine write a note to the Emperor saying "Dear Emperor, my friends are sacrifying humans and dealing with the demons. I am a bit worried, sincerely..."? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273076-word-bearers-50-years-of-secrecy/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Visitor13 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Well, you have to remember is that the Emperor is not very smart. To put it in the gentlest terms possible. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273076-word-bearers-50-years-of-secrecy/#findComment-3332426 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legionator Posted March 21, 2013 Author Share Posted March 21, 2013 Well, you have to remember is that the Emperor is not very smart. To put it in the gentlest terms possible. He is more than smart, but it is not about being smart. The Emperor's knowledge about Warp and its content was unmatched. He must have sensed something. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273076-word-bearers-50-years-of-secrecy/#findComment-3332429 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Visitor13 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Well, you have to remember is that the Emperor is not very smart. To put it in the gentlest terms possible. He is more than smart, but it is not about being smart. The Emperor's knowledge about Warp and its content was unmatched. He must have sensed something. And yet he sensed nothing as one of his sons was recovered from a planet with an aggression-enhancer sticking out of his brain and proceeded to tear the Custodes and later his legion limb from limb... And that's just the tip of an Olympus Mons of obliviousness to the vulnerabilities of his sons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273076-word-bearers-50-years-of-secrecy/#findComment-3332433 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legionator Posted March 21, 2013 Author Share Posted March 21, 2013 Well, you have to remember is that the Emperor is not very smart. To put it in the gentlest terms possible. He is more than smart, but it is not about being smart. The Emperor's knowledge about Warp and its content was unmatched. He must have sensed something. And yet he sensed nothing as one of his sons was recovered from a planet with an aggression-enhancer sticking out of his brain and proceeded to tear the Custodes and later his legion limb from limb... And that's just the tip of an Olympus Mons of obliviousness to the vulnerabilities of his sons. IIRC, Big E tried removing nails from Angron's head but failed. He banned use of nails and sent Russ against WE when Angron disobeyed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273076-word-bearers-50-years-of-secrecy/#findComment-3332448 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigger-than-Jesus Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 The only possessed were the Gal Vorbak. And they weren't near the Emperor. And the Emperor spent a lot of time with Horus, I'd sayLorgar hardly got a look-in in those fifty years Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273076-word-bearers-50-years-of-secrecy/#findComment-3332462 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosLord Leon Enaek Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 The Word Bearers made a point of throwing themselves forward, far from most of the Imperium, with only a few Custodes to keep watch over them. These Custodes kept their own company, so they were easy to keep in the dark, their communications were being garbled and intercepted by a daemon, and the Word Bearers may not have been corrupted too much before they entered the Eye. On Corax smelling the taint on them - he had seen the Word Bearers at Istvaan by this point, so he knows what they're about. You know when a friend points something out and then because you're aware of it, it's the easest thing in the world to spot yourself? Corax knew that the Word Bearers were servants of the True Gods so what he might hae dismissed as the result of a Warp jump or proximity to a Geller Field or whatever he can now see with clarity - it's the boon of the Four. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273076-word-bearers-50-years-of-secrecy/#findComment-3332493 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Achilles Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 I think the biggest picture that is trying to be painted about the Emperor is that he while being the apex of humanity in almost every was was still above all other things, human and therefore prone to all the failings we mortal men are subject to. He simply would not believe that his plan would/could fail let alone that his sons would betray him. Hubris led to the Heresy, its just that simple. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273076-word-bearers-50-years-of-secrecy/#findComment-3332530 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 I "hae me doots" that the poor schmuck Corax tore in half in DL was truly an example of "Corax can smell the guilt on your soul" and not an instance of "Welcome to deranged paranoia land, population Lion'El Johnson (GUILLLIIIMAAAN!) and the Raven." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273076-word-bearers-50-years-of-secrecy/#findComment-3332545 Share on other sites More sharing options...
godking Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Well, you have to remember is that the Emperor is not very smart. To put it in the gentlest terms possible. He is more than smart, but it is not about being smart. The Emperor's knowledge about Warp and its content was unmatched. He must have sensed something. And yet he sensed nothing as one of his sons was recovered from a planet with an aggression-enhancer sticking out of his brain and proceeded to tear the Custodes and later his legion limb from limb... And that's just the tip of an Olympus Mons of obliviousness to the vulnerabilities of his sons. IIRC, Big E tried removing nails from Angron's head but failed. He banned use of nails and sent Russ against WE when Angron disobeyed. Russ went after Angron on his own. The Emperor did not sanction him to go after Angron. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273076-word-bearers-50-years-of-secrecy/#findComment-3332634 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carach Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 where is this information of russ going after angron? is that in some hh literature i have yet to read or is that old fluff? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273076-word-bearers-50-years-of-secrecy/#findComment-3332697 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokkorex Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 i think its in betrayer? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273076-word-bearers-50-years-of-secrecy/#findComment-3332710 Share on other sites More sharing options...
godking Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 where is this information of russ going after angron? is that in some hh literature i have yet to read or is that old fluff? Its in betrayer Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273076-word-bearers-50-years-of-secrecy/#findComment-3332711 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carach Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 god damn man waiting for amazon release on that is ruining me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273076-word-bearers-50-years-of-secrecy/#findComment-3332820 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arachnid99 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Generally it's regarded as polite to put spoiler tags around details of recently released books. So thanks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273076-word-bearers-50-years-of-secrecy/#findComment-3332850 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durfast Spiritwolf Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 You are right Arachnid, but it's a side story and the statement made by godking isn't a surprise in the storyline. It will, in no way, affect anyone's enjoyment of Betrayer. So I think we can afford to be less frustrated with his slip up :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273076-word-bearers-50-years-of-secrecy/#findComment-3332988 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksad Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 naah, the only fitting punnishment is keelhauling. anyone have a boat? and in a universe as big as the 40k one, for a legion of so many, I'd imagine it's fairly easy for those few Marines with a chaos taint to be kept out of sight when dealing with superpowerfull wrathfull chaostaintdetectingandhating ubermenchen. -hey y'all, the Emperor's en route to this sector. -oh, eta? -a week. -guess we'll go raid that sector over there for a few sacrifices, give us a holler when he's gone, m'kay? -no sweat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273076-word-bearers-50-years-of-secrecy/#findComment-3332997 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Visitor13 Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Well, you have to remember is that the Emperor is not very smart. To put it in the gentlest terms possible. He is more than smart, but it is not about being smart. The Emperor's knowledge about Warp and its content was unmatched. He must have sensed something. And yet he sensed nothing as one of his sons was recovered from a planet with an aggression-enhancer sticking out of his brain and proceeded to tear the Custodes and later his legion limb from limb... And that's just the tip of an Olympus Mons of obliviousness to the vulnerabilities of his sons. IIRC, Big E tried removing nails from Angron's head but failed. Yes he did. Another thing he failed at was killing Angron at that point, which would have been the sensible (not to mention kind) thing to do. Basically, the Emperor is written to be a complete moron who forgets about the existence of Chaos and the possibility of corruption among his forces for the duration of nearly the entire crusade. So do not be surprised by the fact that the upper echelons of the Word Bearers could hide their corruption from him for so long. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273076-word-bearers-50-years-of-secrecy/#findComment-3333028 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trankz Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 The Word Bearers made a point of throwing themselves forward, far from most of the Imperium, with only a few Custodes to keep watch over them. These Custodes kept their own company, so they were easy to keep in the dark, their communications were being garbled and intercepted by a daemon, and the Word Bearers may not have been corrupted too much before they entered the Eye. On Corax smelling the taint on them - he had seen the Word Bearers at Istvaan by this point, so he knows what they're about. You know when a friend points something out and then because you're aware of it, it's the easest thing in the world to spot yourself? Corax knew that the Word Bearers were servants of the True Gods so what he might hae dismissed as the result of a Warp jump or proximity to a Geller Field or whatever he can now see with clarity - it's the boon of the Four. I remember this from The First Heretic right? They divide de Legion and one part was playing by the book and the second part was manipulating de Custodes, blocking cominucations. In reality , the custodes sent messages warning the Imperium, We have some strange mistakes in the HH plot about the Emperor behaviour, My way to not get upset by this it's to remember the universe was HUGE and the chaos was filtering messages in the warp. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273076-word-bearers-50-years-of-secrecy/#findComment-3333055 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosLord Leon Enaek Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Yes the Word Bearers hiding on the edges of the Imperium and messing with the Custodes' communications with Terra are both in The First Heretic Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273076-word-bearers-50-years-of-secrecy/#findComment-3333132 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 In Outcast Dead the Emperor is implied to have killed all of the thunder warriors when he was nearing the conquering of earth. Right? Wouldn't a Space Marine civil war be a great ploy to remove all Astartes after the crusade was almost over and your webway project was nearing completion? Eh? The Emperor cares for humanity. Humanity. Astartest are not humans...well sorta. But they they do not represent humanity at all. The Emperor wanted the Heresy. That is why his choices in dealing with his "sons" seem so alien and bizarre to us. Everything went as planned except maybe Magnus breaking the Webway... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273076-word-bearers-50-years-of-secrecy/#findComment-3333146 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksad Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 and getting pimpslapped by Horus... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273076-word-bearers-50-years-of-secrecy/#findComment-3333158 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the emperor is scottish Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 I think it's funny people saying horus 'beat up the emperor' if fluff is still anything to go by its suggested that the emperor held back against Horus still unwilling to believe he couldn't be saved. It was only the intervention of a guardsmen/imperial fist that Horus flayed alive with his mind that the emperor went all out. Unleashing a psychic attack powerful enough to oblitirate Horus soul completely and banish the warp storms that the gods had created to blind the galaxy. That's some pretty old fluff now. Who knows what will be rewritten the more the hh novels progress Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273076-word-bearers-50-years-of-secrecy/#findComment-3333836 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Yeah. The Emperor held back. But I wonder if Horus did too because as he wanted to taunt the Emperor and make him suffer which was only exacerbated by his extreme arrogance. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273076-word-bearers-50-years-of-secrecy/#findComment-3333884 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the emperor is scottish Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 I can't remember if it was fan made of cannon that suggested horus screams out 'father!' In a pleading manner just before the final blow is struck. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273076-word-bearers-50-years-of-secrecy/#findComment-3333922 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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