Deathwatch: Force Barrier and the Spirit Wolves

[Gentlemanloser]

How do you guys deal with these two Psychic Powers?

 

We recently got comfirmation from the developers about the restricitons on Force Barrier, and basically you can't use any Move (and I think Dodge) actions.

 

But you're still able to use Psychi Powers, Shoot, Melee and Riposte.

 

With a sustained Power that gives you a massive extra 9+ Armour, and reduces the Penetration of Ranged attacks to zero.

 

Get a little higher, or push it, and you're looking at someone who's pratically immune to damage (Given that Armour and Tougness stack with this as well).

 

 

Then again, there are the Space Wolf Wolves.

 

I forget thier states, but at PR10 one's like 10d6 damage with low Penetration, while the other is 5d6 with a Penetration of 30 (or something stupid).

 

These automatically hit, so no need to worry about them, and will mince anything in the game.  Even the Force Barrier Dark Angel! :P

 

 

Have you found these two powers disruptive at all?  How do you combat them?

[Karack Blackstone]

Hello,

 

I am sorry if this sounds harsh, however, the entire WH40K RPG line uses d10's.  And as far as powers go that cause such great damage, do please keep in mind there are plenty of other powers from other lines to be concerned over, at least in character.

 

As far as your reactions, if you are the GM, adjudicate or decide through whatever process you feel most correctly fixes the situation.

 

Good luck, and have fun.

[Gentlemanloser]

Heh, 40k on the brain..  I ment d10 above, not d6.

 

Well, there's not really too much else that breaks the game like these two powers.  Unless you mix in Dark Heresy and cheese the game with it's Healing minor power.

 

Apart from outright denying players the options to play Dark Angels or Space Wolves, how would you balance these two powers?  Don't the Developers see anything wrong with them?  Is there a lot in the game that can punch through around a 30 armour/toughness bonus rating, wit zero penetration.  Without taking into account cover, force fields or things like FnP?

 

How do you design challenging encounters when the two spirit wolves auto hit and kill whatever they hit?

 

How have other GMs ruled, or adjusted, these two powers?

 

Or is this just a head in sand moment, and you pray you never encounter these in game?

 

Edit:

 

Busted out the core rulebook for referrence.  Let's assume a PR of 10 used for both of these

 

Force Barrier AR 30, all ranged have a Pen zero (which you can then add your normal armour ratings too)

 

Fury of the Wolf Spirits;

Freki: 10d10 (rending) penetration zero.

Geri: 10d5 (rending) Pen 30

 

These attack in addition to the Libby, and hit atomatically, with damaged caused adding to the shock table roll.

 

On one hand, you have a Dark Angel Libby with 30 armour before Power/Terminator armour and Toughness Bonus.  On the other, you have a libby that due to a sustained power can kill just about anything in the game.

 

And no one has had any problems with either of these?

Edited April 9, 2013 by Gentlemanloser

[Jareddm]

Well instead of denying a whole chapter, you could simply deny them spending the xp to get the power.  Perhaps they're stationed on a watch station that doesn't have the necessary rites and training for them to learn those powers.  You could also instill a Shadow of the Warp effect that cuts down on the PR of all psykers within its radius.  Off the top of my head, an untouchable's aura drops PR by 5, so that should help mitigate the effect.

 

As for beating them, force barrier is easy.  Force the player to move.  If you're assuming a PR of 10 then you're assuming the players are at least rank 7, meaning they should be going up against the absolute worst the Reach has to offer, such as whole cabals of immensely powerful rival psykers and a dozen tyranid warriors, at the same time.   A telekinetic shove or even a powerful push would be enough to break the force barrier if the librarian fails his opposed willpower or strength test.

 

As for Spirit Wolves, allow me to quote something from an old discussion on the topic.

 

 

The rules say they are spirit creatures. So... what if an area is haunted by a dozen bear spirits, or a bunch of spectres, or other 'spirit' foes. Just because the rules say you can't target them, you don't have to blindly follow that. I'd personally have them explore some haunted ruins, and have something 'spiritually' kick the CRAP out of the wolves, and then move on to the party. Then when they start to complain that they have no way of hurting the teleporting 'spirit giant crocadiles' which do insane damage, you can either steep your fingers and say 'sucks, doesn't it', or let them suggest ways that it's 'fair' to hurt such creatures. You can then use all of the player-suggested ways to target the spirit wolves at a later date, and there's not much they can complain about!

 

Or you could just give those that oppose him collars of khorne or null rods to give them an additional +30 on the dodge roll to avoid the wolves.

[Gentlemanloser]

Hmm.  I'm unsure about forcing movement on a DA libby.

 

The power drops if the Libby uses a Move action, not if they are forced to move.

 

How do you define non action movement?  Can the libby use the power if hovering on a Jump Pack?  Can they use the power if they are being carried?  Can they use the power if they are standing on a moving transport?  In a space hulk that is drifting through space?  In a strike cruiser?  Etc.

 

As for the Wolves, I dislike the design of having to 'one up' the players, becuase an ability is so broken.  The Players can one shot something, so in return you one shot them back.  /meh

 

I'd rather prefer to adjust the 'power' of both abilities, until they are much more reasonable.  Rather than take drastic action of outright denying them, or getting into super arms races.

[Karack Blackstone]

If this is your line of thinking, give the players the following statement: these two powers will ruin the game, so in the decision to remove them, DA and SW players may take a Codex Power of their choice that fits their Battle-Brother and their Chapter with say a 50 to 150 (100) XP discount instead.

 

If this does not help you overall, there's no real other way to say it: I have not had any players in my games be SW or DA Librarians, so I understand your headache.  I was looking through my books some time back and ran across these two powers.  I currently plan to use the above paragraph solution in response to such a situation for my own stories.

 

There is always the chance to playbalance, however, there will always be a demand to use a power as-is, even when there is clearly way too much contained within said ability.

 

Good luck, and may to find your heart's guiding line to resolve this game dilemma.

[Grey Mage]

So you can be virtually immune to damage, but incapable of movement?

Cool. Give the badguys a few rounds shooting at him, then have the heavy weapons expect open up and drop the floor out from underneath him. He wont be very effective from the bottom of a crater.

 

Spirit Wolves got you down? Have a daemonic homunculus intercept one of them on the way in- or rule that energy fields can still get their % save against it... the big bad does have a displacer or something, right?

 

Or toss the characters into a place where the fabric of the warp is dangerously unstable in its connection- making it harder for powers to go off, or more likely to fritz out and explode your brain. Not all the time mind you- but for a mission, maybe two, just to make the player think of other ways to do things.

 

This is of course, if you actually find the powers to be disruptive. Its not just having the tools, its using them constantly and to their utmost potential that can break them. If they arent breaking your game with them, or getting stuck/bored doing it again and again in the same pattern- then change the rules. Thats what a good GM is for eh?

[Gentlemanloser]

Drop him through the floor every encounter?  That's the problem.  You can come up with specific that, neuter, these abilites.  But if they become commonplace, the system loses something.

 

Luckily, my Players have decided not to take these, but it's disappointing that thier book power level is so off.

[Grey Mage]

If you only have one counter then again, you need to be more creative about it IMHO. Theres plenty of ways to go about it- blast door slams down blocking LOS unless he moves and opens the door again. Elite enemies with their own 'emperors wrath' *wich is in the rules as I recall* to make him remember hes not invulnerable, just very tough. Blind/Flash grenades.

Tau anti-psychic field creating drones.

Runes of Warding.

Tzeentch Daemon that temporarily eats psychic levels, making his higher level things unavailable for casting without alot of luck.

An emerging beta level psycher child who thinks that the Librarian is his personal angel, sent by the emperor- and is reaching out across two continents to make contact with his 'savior' and distracts him randomly from time to time, breaking the focus he needs to cast these powers as a 5 year old elbows his way into your mind.
Fighting a fleet capable enemy like a chaos incursion? Drop a bomb on him- doesnt have to be acurrate, doesnt even have to hit. Just make sure the stats are high enough to put the fear of the emperor into him.

Us non-damaging attacks. Drop a net on him and have a couple ogryns try to drag him off- and since hes being moved, the power doesnt just shut down, but he has to use his action to test and keep it going or choose to drop it and get out of his situation.

Etc etc etc.