godking Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 We can all name the wisest of the Primarchs which of the Primarchs where the most ignorant of the Primarchs ? For me its a tie between Ferrus and Mortarion i have yet to see evidence of either of them being able to see the big picture. Both of these primarchs crossed the threshhold from stubborness into stupidity. Russ pretends to to be ignorant but is fairly intelligent even though he is stubborn and set in his ways. Angron burdened by the Butchers nails though he is when he his lucid is actually alot smarter then you give him credit for. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Angron burdened by the Butchers nails though he is when he his lucid is actually alot smarter then you give him credit for. No he's not. He's pretty stupid for a Primarch. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/#findComment-3333448 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 (Troll engaged) Rogal Dorn. (-TROLOLOLO!) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/#findComment-3333452 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the emperor is scottish Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Angron burdened by the Butchers nails though he is when he his lucid is actually alot smarter then you give him credit for. No he's not. He's pretty stupid for a Primarch. I'd like to know your reasoning behind that comment. I would have agreed that if it wasn't for the nails there would have been nothing stopping him from being intelligent. His conversation with russ shows he has a high level of reasoning and is the only primarch I'm aware of that saw the emperor for what he is, a tyrant. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/#findComment-3333460 Share on other sites More sharing options...
awfulawful Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Obviously Horus was the most ignorant. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/#findComment-3333461 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 I would argue Horus, but.... "Hey Erebus! You disguised yourself as my dead friend! Bro fist!" Not to mention that the First Chaplain got him in danger on Davin with a manipulation that was moss covered when Brer Rabbit pulled it. "Whatever you do, Brer Horus, don't throw me in the briar...er, lead the ground assault in person!" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/#findComment-3333464 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Ummmm.....Magnus anyone? "Oh these warp entities are nothing, I'm waaaay smarter then them. There's no way there's a downside to this deal. Let's do it!!!!" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/#findComment-3333465 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 I'd like to know your reasoning behind that comment. I would have agreed that if it wasn't for the nails there would have been nothing stopping him from being intelligent. His conversation with russ shows he has a high level of reasoning and is the only primarch I'm aware of that saw the emperor for what he is, a tyrant. He's stupid enough to dismiss his brothers' respective strengths. He's stupid enough to smear crap on anyone but his gladiator bros based on nothing. He's stupid enough to not realize his weaknesses. He's stupid enough to blame others with the vices he shares. He's an arrogant bastard yet he calls Horus such. He's a tyrant who enables Butcher's Nails practice amongst his legion yet blames Emperor with tyranny. He's stupid enough to not understand Russ' lesson for god knows how many years. He's stupid enough to think he's the epitomy of anti tyranny. He's stupid enough to dismiss ideals and yet he desperately clings to them. He's stupid enough to not appreciate any loyalty except his gladiator bros. He's stupid enough to fruitlessly bully his lessers just for his petty amusement. In short, one may explain those faults with personality issues but they only cover so much. Angron is obviously stupid fella for a Primarch. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/#findComment-3333470 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 As an aside, I would like to award ten points to Wade Garrett for the use of a Disney reference in a HH thread. And as stupid primarchs go, Fulgrim as he was written in the novel buy the same name made me scratch my head. Was he so dense that he really believed that his conscience could speak aloud to him! And I'm sorry Angron but "me Angron me smash dem all" is all I can think every time I here his name. Magnus smashing his way into the Es little portal project seems rather dumb to me, but thats me... Ferrus, as much as I like the Iron Hands, has not been written as an insightfull character. Assault on Isstvan V anyone. Oh I'll take ten companies of my Morlock terminators and two of the smallest legions and drop right onto a fortified position held by the guy our dad made WARMASTER. Oh and where are the fleets of the four legions we about to jump on . I know the massacre is a main point of the heresy as a whole, but still. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/#findComment-3333480 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the emperor is scottish Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 I would probably agree with you with some of thoughs points. Especially his blind ignorance to the lesson russ taught him. I'd say he's the most damaged of all primarchs. That's a given. I think it's easy enough to write him off. His gladaitor army was the only thing angron ever had to call his own. When the emperor snatched him away and left them to be ground to dust it's fair to say he would have felt cheated. An already damaged mind unhinged. I can see why he would idolise his lost brothers and sisters, the glorious dead. He has a huge case of survivors guilt. It's easy to criticise angron. It'd be great to see how he would have turned out without the nails. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/#findComment-3333484 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legionator Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 @Billuriye: Well played good sir, well played. My ranking: 1) Lorgar. (golly there are gods. I wanna worship them, no matter how vicious they are) 2) Angron 3) Horus (I fought alongside with the Emperor for 200 years, but I didn't see him for 2 years. He must have forsaken me, so why don't I betray him?) 4) Mortarion 5) Perturabo 6) Fulgrim 7) Magnus 8) Alpharius 9) Konrad Curze Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/#findComment-3333505 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 @Billuriye: Well played good sir, well played. My ranking: 1) Lorgar. (golly there are gods. I wanna worship them, no matter how vicious they are) 2) Angron 3) Horus (I fought alongside with the Emperor for 200 years, but I didn't see him for 2 years. He must have forsaken me, so why don't I betray him?) 4) Mortarion 5) Perturabo 6) Fulgrim 7) Magnus 8) Alpharius 9) Konrad Curze Notice all these are traitor primarchs? That's not biased at all. Horus isn't really bad actually, after what he went through on Davin it's not suprising the choice he made. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/#findComment-3333506 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legionator Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 @Billuriye: Well played good sir, well played. My ranking: 1) Lorgar. (golly there are gods. I wanna worship them, no matter how vicious they are) 2) Angron 3) Horus (I fought alongside with the Emperor for 200 years, but I didn't see him for 2 years. He must have forsaken me, so why don't I betray him?) 4) Mortarion 5) Perturabo 6) Fulgrim 7) Magnus 8) Alpharius 9) Konrad Curze Notice all these are traitor primarchs? That's not biased at all. Horus isn't really bad actually, after what he went through on Davin it's not suprising the choice he made. Honestly, if heresy didn't happen these guys probably would be the rulers of the galaxy instead of hiding some planet in the Eye of Terror. Therefore, every traitor is ignorant. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/#findComment-3333513 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Depends on your view of the word ignorant. The flip side of that would be the loyalist primarchs staying and fighting for their father through ignorance. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/#findComment-3333516 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legionator Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Depends on your view of the word ignorant. The flip side of that would be the loyalist primarchs staying and fighting for their father through ignorance. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". It was stupid to rebel when the Crusade was about to end and primarchs were like gods among the men. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/#findComment-3333521 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Yeah, what about when the Emperor ascended to godhood? You've no idea what would've happened, if he would've enslaved humanity or what. They were physically and mentally gods among men but most of them acted like children emotionally. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/#findComment-3333525 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legionator Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Yeah, what about when the Emperor ascended to godhood? You've no idea what would've happened, if he would've enslaved humanity or what. I respect that idea; rebelling against a tyrant. But, let's look at the situation: On the one side, there are Chaos gods. They are cruel, they demand human sacrificies, they want to make cattles out of humanity and they are pretty honest about their intentions. On the other side, there is the Emperor. Who helped the humanity in the darkest hour, united shattered worlds and saved them from cruelty of xenos and tyrants, created the primarchs, fought in the crusade personally, so humbe that banned Imperial cult etc. There is a conspiracy theory about him which claims he wants to become a Chaos god. Whom should a person who believes in liberty support? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/#findComment-3333532 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 The Primarchs would have ruled the galaxy if there had been no Heresy? Yeah, ask Arik Taranis (or any other Thunder Warrior, if you can find one) how well the Emperor rewards his creations when their task is done. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/#findComment-3333533 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 There's a truth to that for sure. Thing is though, when the chaos gods first made themselves known to the Primarchs, they didn't appear malevolent. For instance, Tzeentch with Magnus or Horus on Davin. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/#findComment-3333534 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legionator Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 @Tanith Ghost: You are right about Magnus. But Lorgar and Horus were aware of the false gods' malevolence. Lorgar watched a ritual of human sacrifice and Horus sacrificied a navigator shortly after his fall. @Wade Garrett: The Emperor loved the primarchs as his sons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/#findComment-3333547 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 @Wade Garrett: The Emperor loved the primarchs as his sons. Yeah, I'm sure Curze would like your post. Pretty sure the emperor also had a soft spot for the Thunder Warriors before getting rid of those. The Primarchs are fine, the biggest half-wit of the galaxy is the Emperor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/#findComment-3333560 Share on other sites More sharing options...
W0lfie Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 I would have agreed that if it wasn't for the nails there would have been nothing stopping him from being intelligent. His conversation with russ shows he has a high level of reasoning and is the only primarch I'm aware of that saw the emperor for what he is, THE SAVIOUR OF MANKIND Fixed. Anyways, none of them really were. They were all incredibly...fixated...on their own specific views of the world, but none of them were ignorant. This thread was a bad idea, no offense to the OP. This is going to turn into squabbling and trolling @Wade Garrett: The Emperor loved the primarchs as his sons. Yeah, I'm sure Curze would like your post. Pretty sure he also had a soft spot for the Thunder Warriors before murdering them all. The Primarchs are fine, the biggest half-wit of the galaxy is the Emperor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historian_fallacy Just gonna leave that there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/#findComment-3333563 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 While the Emperor did seem to have affection for some of the Primarchs (Guilliman, Horus) others seemed to be more in the category of "useful tools" than family. It's also difficult to imagine, say, Russ, Angron, or their Legions retiring to become scholars and politicians like Roboute and Magnus were planning post Crusade. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/#findComment-3333564 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legionator Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 @Wade Garrett: The Emperor loved the primarchs as his sons. Yeah, I'm sure Curze would like your post. Pretty sure he also had a soft spot for the Thunder Warriors before getting rid of those. The Primarchs are fine, the biggest half-wit of the galaxy is the Emperor. Well he even tried to speak with Curze, but Curze just went like "No one can understand me, I want to be alone!!!!!!!!1111". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/#findComment-3333566 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Magnus would've had a great time sitting on the golden throne. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/#findComment-3333567 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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