W0lfie Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 While the Emperor did seem to have affection for some of the Primarchs (Guilliman, Horus) others seemed to be more in the category of "useful tools" than family. It's also difficult to imagine, say, Russ, Angron, or their Legions retiring to become scholars and politicians like Roboute and Magnus were planning post Crusade. Well you also need to consider that the Emperor would still need a powerful standing army, just...not ALL the legions. I can almost guarantee that the IF and SW would have remained military forces (The Emperor's Praetorians and Executioners, respectively), as well as the WE (what else are they good for?). Most of the others I can see filling at least SOME kind of roles (i.e. EC-artists, IH-seconded to the Mechanicum etc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/page/2/#findComment-3333583 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorenzen Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 how is mortarion one of the most ignorant by any stretch of the imagination? he was a very sensible and smart primarch who didnt suffer from the delusions of grandeur some of his brothers did.. just because his reasons for following horus have never been truly explained doesnt make him ignorant.. his downfall was bad fluff and typhon being an asshat.. he was right to not trust psykers.. typhon is proof of that. the most ignorant is magnus imho.. for all his knowledge he was ignorant of the drawbacks to his bargain with tzeentch, ignorant of his place in the galaxy, ignorant of the consequences to his trip to the emperors palace.. right up until the curtain got pulled back on him and his world came tumbling down and shattered around him like the statue on prospero. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/page/2/#findComment-3333702 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 I'll go to bat for Emps here: If putting a single (relatively undamaged) Magnus tier psyker on slow cook could have powered the Astronomicon without the need to barbecue a thousand souls a day, then it almost looks like an altruistic plan if you squint and tilt your head a certain angle. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/page/2/#findComment-3333723 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 @Legionator- How was Horus aware before his fall? The fall was the thing on Davin that started to corrupt him, before he had no idea. Lorgar may have though, that's probably true. He was just crazy for any sort of god-worship. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/page/2/#findComment-3333728 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthMarko Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Ummmm.....Magnus anyone? "Oh these warp entities are nothing, I'm waaaay smarter then them. There's no way there's a downside to this deal. Let's do it!!!!" Yep the guy who thinks that he is the smartest is ...errr....rather dumb??? But I'll have to go with Angron - too stupid, too furious.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/page/2/#findComment-3333774 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Ummmm.....Magnus anyone? "Oh these warp entities are nothing, I'm waaaay smarter then them. There's no way there's a downside to this deal. Let's do it!!!!" Yep the guy who thinks that he is the smartest is ...errr....rather dumb??? Magnus herited that foolish pride from the emperor who did the exact same thing. "I'm gonna create a new race of men that will be immune to Chaos, it will be so cool, they will not even see it coming !" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/page/2/#findComment-3333790 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthMarko Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 ^ gene thing then? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/page/2/#findComment-3333890 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Magnus would've had a great time sitting on the golden throne. I'm only guessing but we have no reason to believe he wouldn't What is the golden throne? Part of it is a life supporting device but that is not its only function. It was probably created by the Old ones or perhaps with the new fluff the Necrotyr. To do what? To access the webway? For how long? The fluff seems to imply that it gives the Emperor power to be all places at all times...sorta. I doubt that that Magnus would have needed to sit on it for ever. The Emperor was sitting on it to create more webway and repair the webway that led to earth. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/page/2/#findComment-3333891 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Considering the bloody thing turned Malcador into charcoal when he hopped on it during the Siege of Terra, I'm going out on a limb here and say yes, running the thing is what you'd call an unpleasant experience. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/page/2/#findComment-3333904 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenEngineer Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Personally, I believe that the two Primarchs with the highest potential for ignorance were those that were aware of the Chaos Gods from the start; Magnus and Lorgar. But there is a distinction between the two. Lorgar did not foolishly choose the cruel gods; he did so with adequate reasons. Think of it from his perspective; your brother has walked into your room, smashed the biggest trophy you owned, and called you a failure to your face, while your father stood there nodding his agreement, forcing you to kneel to your 'superior' brother all the while. So when Lorgar gets a chance to get his revenge on his father by finding gods who can give him a 'moral reason' to fight and who he can still worship in spite of his father? He jumps on it. Some par of him might have even known what he was getting into, but I doubted he would have cared at that point if it meant revenge. Magnus on the other hand lacked that excuse. Magnus knew from the start of the Chaos Gods existence, and started dealing with them right from the start. While Lorgar couldn't know the true nature of the gods when he first fell to them, Magnus could. As a payer of tha degree, he could likely have sensed the nature of the denizens of the warp (who hav been describe to ooze malevolence to those not in tune with the warp). Furthermore, his first interaction with the gods predated any mistreatment by the Emperor; Magnus was cutting deals with the Changer of Ways since he before he met his Legion. Magnus was in position to be the closest to the truth about the Warp, and yet still seemed to be the least aware (they are no threat to us? Sure Magnus). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/page/2/#findComment-3333916 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 ^ gene thing then? Could be. After all, Magnus was (and still is) one of the greatest psyker of the galaxy after the emperor, who is more a generator than a man, actually. Which is pretty ironic because the emperor is suffering the fate he had planed for Magnus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/page/2/#findComment-3333946 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legionator Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 ^ gene thing then? Could be. After all, Magnus was (and still is) one of the greatest psyker of the galaxy after the emperor, who is more a generator than a man, actually. Which is pretty ironic because the emperor is suffering the fate he had planed for Magnus. Probably Magnus would'nt suffer on the Golden Throne. The Emperor was about to die, and the Golden Throne was not complete. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/page/2/#findComment-3333982 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Considering the bloody thing turned Malcador into charcoal when he hopped on it during the Siege of Terra, I'm going out on a limb here and say yes, running the thing is what you'd call an unpleasant experience. Well, that doesn't mean it would continue to do so since that is, again, after chaos burst through the wards. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/page/2/#findComment-3334008 Share on other sites More sharing options...
godking Posted March 23, 2013 Author Share Posted March 23, 2013 Ummmm.....Magnus anyone? "Oh these warp entities are nothing, I'm waaaay smarter then them. There's no way there's a downside to this deal. Let's do it!!!!" Yep the guy who thinks that he is the smartest is ...errr....rather dumb??? But I'll have to go with Angron - too stupid, too furious.... Angron has a real reason for dimished mental capacity and even then in the moments that he was not bothered by the Nails he actually was the first to see emperor for who he really is. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/page/2/#findComment-3334041 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 ^ gene thing then? Could be. After all, Magnus was (and still is) one of the greatest psyker of the galaxy after the emperor, who is more a generator than a man, actually. Which is pretty ironic because the emperor is suffering the fate he had planed for Magnus. Probably Magnus would'nt suffer on the Golden Throne. The Emperor was about to die, and the Golden Throne was not complete. Funny the emperor didn't really talked about it to Magnus. I guess he wanted it to be his birthday present. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/page/2/#findComment-3334086 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Considering that Lion'El Johnson is expending just as much energy countering Rob and the Ultramarines as he is Horus, he definitely deserves a mention in this discussion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/page/2/#findComment-3334105 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legionator Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Considering that Lion'El Johnson is expending just as much energy countering Rob and the Ultramarines as he is Horus, he definitely deserves a mention in this discussion. Lion's lack of trust can be understood. He had an asocial personality from the beginning and HH wasn't the time you can blindly rely on a primarch who says he would carve his own empire. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/page/2/#findComment-3334118 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorenzen Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 indeed taking steps to stop a potential threat is far from ignorant. it takes years to build up trust, but it only takes suspicion, not proof to destroy it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/page/2/#findComment-3334131 Share on other sites More sharing options...
W0lfie Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Considering the bloody thing turned Malcador into charcoal when he hopped on it during the Siege of Terra, I'm going out on a limb here and say yes, running the thing is what you'd call an unpleasant experience. Malcador was also both holding Titan in the warp and making it invisible to the chaos gods at this time. And saving his last kernel of psychic might to allow the Emperor the time to issue his final orders. And he was also, despite his enormous power, weaker, psychically, then both the Emperor and Magnus. I think magnus would have been fine. Especially when you account for primarch physiology, and the fact that the Emperor may have started helping him once the Imperium was complete, and the fact that we don't know that the psyker sacrifices weren't the plan all along. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/page/2/#findComment-3334249 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Yeah, you're right, I think Magnus would've been pretty happy sitting on a throne for eternity. The emperor knew it, he wanted to fulfill a boy's dream, you know, being sacrified and all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/page/2/#findComment-3334254 Share on other sites More sharing options...
W0lfie Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Yeah, you're right, I think Magnus would've been pretty happy sitting on a throne for eternity. The emperor knew it, he wanted to fulfill a boy's dream, you know, being sacrified and all. The trolls will not be fed here. Maybe try 4chan, Vesper? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/page/2/#findComment-3334265 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Can't come up with a decent reason why the emperor plotted the whole golden throne thingy behind Magnus' back ? Too bad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/page/2/#findComment-3334268 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Res Ipsa Loquitur Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 So it would seem that very few of you know what 'ignorant' means. It doesn't mean stupid. Anyway, the answer is Magnus, easily. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/page/2/#findComment-3334277 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Lion's lack of trust can be understood. He had an asocial personality from the beginning and HH wasn't the time you can blindly rely on a primarch who says he would carve his own empire.Rob said he would carve out his own empire? CITATION NEEDED! Let me see if I've got this straight. Horus Lupercal has openly vowed to replace the Emperor, rallied eight other Legions to his cause, crippled three loyal Legions at Isstvan, and Horus aligned Night Lords are taking Dark Angel helms (and the heads inside them) as trophies. In this situation, the most productive use of the Lion's time is countering what Robbie G MIGHT do? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/page/2/#findComment-3334282 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 to defend the Big E: The Golden Throne: As the Throne as we know it is unfinished, and infact breaking down, anybody stating with absolute certainity what its function was when completed and operation, and the effects it would have on its user(s), is simply full of hot air. because the Golden Throne as we known it is not complete, not fully functionally and reliant on the one thing the Emperor wanted to not rely on: psykers. If Magnus had simply followed his orders, allowing the Emperor the time to finish the Golden Throne, then maybe it wouldnt be the soul sucking device we have in 40k. it could fart roses and piss excellence for all we know. now why wouldnt the Emperor of Mankind tell the one primarch who has (twice) broken his oath to not pursue sorcery??? maybe it could be because that primarch had alredy proven himself disloyal? or maybe because the EMPEROR of Mankind doesnt feel the need to explain his actions to his generals, and would have them return the trust he placed in them. on topic, this is a odd topic in my opinion because our opinions are influenced by knowing the lore of the universe, somehting our characters lack. if they went into the galaxy knowing of the chaos powers (i refuse to acknowledge them as gods) as we do, they may have made different decisions. Any decision we make here is somewhat unfair to the characters, who lack our more complete knowledge of the 40k (or 30k) verse. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/page/2/#findComment-3334344 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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