Apahllo Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 We can all name the wisest of the Primarchs which of the Primarchs where the most ignorant of the Primarchs ? For me its a tie between Ferrus and Mortarion i have yet to see evidence of either of them being able to see the big picture. Both of these primarchs crossed the threshhold from stubborness into stupidity. Russ pretends to to be ignorant but is fairly intelligent even though he is stubborn and set in his ways. Angron burdened by the Butchers nails though he is when he his lucid is actually alot smarter then you give him credit for. I just know I'm going get flack for this one... the lion... For getting ÜBER trolled by perturabo after pulling some awesome behind the scenes victories (still laughing). But more importantly for not living up to his "potential" or becoming a huge influence in the HH. Other primarchs take bigger roles, when he is the one who you have your eye on as the one who is going to make the big move,but doesn't. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/page/3/#findComment-3334364 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the emperor is scottish Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Exactly god king. I made the same point earlier on. It was the conversation he has with russ that made me realise there was more to angron that blind rage. It's actually the reason I want to start a we pre heresy force before the iron warriors are touched apon in massacre part 2. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/page/3/#findComment-3334383 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter the Hermit Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 I have to go with Magnus...I mean no one was more dumber..I'mean the guy who said "one day, I will know everything"...LOL Russ throwing him in the mud was a fitting end.... Also based on "the Sigilite" his fething up the webway wasn't just a minor deamon incursion, it was a full scale war....So him and perhaps Angron.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/page/3/#findComment-3334440 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 So it would seem that very few of you know what 'ignorant' means. It doesn't mean stupid. Anyway, the answer is Magnus, easily. Every Primarch was ignorant thanks Emperor's policy. Though i don't think it would help to tell them what he knows. Magnus was probably the least ignorant one. He just willfully ignored every warning either due to his pride or desperation. I won't call him stupid because he obviously doesn't lack for mental capacity unlike Angron. Most ignorant one is Angron IMHO due to Nails. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/page/3/#findComment-3334443 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter the Hermit Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 ^ ignorance + hubris = stupidity = Magnus Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/page/3/#findComment-3334450 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 now why wouldnt the Emperor of Mankind tell the one primarch who has (twice) broken his oath to not pursue sorcery??? maybe it could be because that primarch had alredy proven himself disloyal? or maybe because the EMPEROR of Mankind doesnt feel the need to explain his actions to his generals, and would have them return the trust he placed in them. So the Primarchs are only unwilling pawns of the emperor who doesn't bother using them as tools without any consideration of their desires. I do agree. The emperor never put trust in his primarchs, he forced them in doing what he wanted. Otherwise, he would've left Angron die with his gladiator army. Magnus wasn't disloyal, he even warned the emperor of Horus' rebellion. But he was prideful. He thought he could use the warp at will, he thought he would be able to lure the Chaos powers. That pride is the very same the Emperor showed with the catastrophic failure of the Primarch project. Magnus, in my eyes, is the primarch that looks like the emperor the most. Then, it's nothing but a personnal feeling, I don't have any quote to back it up, but I think the emperor asked Russ to bring Magnus alive to Terra, not out of mercy or love for his son, but only to fulfill his plans : forcing his tool to sit on the throne. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/page/3/#findComment-3334451 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 ^ ignorance + hubris = stupidity = Magnus Looks more like personal opinion than a mathematical equation. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/page/3/#findComment-3334452 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter the Hermit Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 No if you are ignorant and you are proud on it, you are stupid in my eyes....Knowlege is power....Do you rember that ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/page/3/#findComment-3334456 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 In your eyes ? No it's not an opinion + in my eyes = nonsense. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/page/3/#findComment-3334461 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter the Hermit Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Well then, be ignorant and be proud...Like those religious fanatics... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/page/3/#findComment-3334466 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Hubris is quite a subversive thing in a religious setting, as it is punished by the gods. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/page/3/#findComment-3334469 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter the Hermit Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 This is your argument after dismissing mine ??? Ok...I'll bow out of this one.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/page/3/#findComment-3334471 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 This again boils down to perspective: You see the Emperor using them as unwilling pawns, I see them as generals and leaders of humanity's last, final expanion. (becasue when they are done, there wont be much left) WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/page/3/#findComment-3334548 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 No if you are ignorant and you are proud on it, you are stupid in my eyes....Knowlege is power....Do you rember that ? BLESSED IS THE MIND THAT IS TOO SMALL FOR DOUBT! FAITH IS STRONGEST WHEN IT IS UNQUESTIONING! :p Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/page/3/#findComment-3334567 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathwatch/Grey knight Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Ferrus, as much as I like the Iron Hands, has not been written as an insightfull character. Assault on Isstvan V anyone. Oh I'll take ten companies of my Morlock terminators and two of the smallest legions and drop right onto a fortified position held by the guy our dad made WARMASTER. Oh and where are the fleets of the four legions we about to jump on . I know the massacre is a main point of the heresy as a whole, but still.. I'm pretty sure in deliverance lost corax said he lost 90,000 sons give or take a few did he not? And salamanders aren't a small force like the SOH or emperors children are they? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/page/3/#findComment-3334588 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathwatch/Grey knight Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 First all you who say Magnus is the most ignorant are heathens lol All we he was doing was trying to warn the emperor and in return he sends the wolves I think Russ is pretty ignorant don't get me wrong I love Russ but he was ordered to bring back Magnus by the emperor but he followed horus's orders instead And let's not forget that he uses psykers and yet he hates them with passion he's a ignorant hypocrite Oh don't forget his rage when he attacked the lion just because the lion beat him to it Did he even feel sorrow when he found out the warning was the truth Oh and here comes the lion my god now he is one ignorant backstabber he knew about the taint the whole time and does nothing he killed everyone who knew about it except one (if you asked me I'm rooting for Luther) and he sends 500 unexperienced warriors back to train recruits because he didn't win the day and he knew that caliban would be sentenced to death and he's a backstabber.... Mortarion had his reasons to fight against his foster father and he never got the chance to kill him the emperor did it and that's why he chose to be on Horus side cause the big e stole his kill so how is that ignorant? And what other primarchs the ones that did have foster fathers turned against them ? So back to the lion what was his reasons he owes Luther everything yet he just can't fathom that it might of been his plan but if it wasn't for Luther caliban would have never been united he just didn't wanna share the spot light and let's not forget Luther had the chance to kill him and he chose not to and for that the lion owes him his life And let's not forget he dislikes terrans that were in the legion before him remember chapter master astelan got sent to caliban only twelve years after Luther and is elk and at this time the lion has only been in the great crusade for thirteen years and he's already banishing Heroes of the legion That's got ignorant ritten all over it Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/page/3/#findComment-3334618 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the emperor is scottish Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 I think in the end the primarchs and astrates were means to an end. To be used just like the thunder warriors. I don't believe the emperor holds any love in his heart for anything bar his own ambition. He was a tyrant and dictator that punished anyone and anything that didn't believe as he did. I also believe the emperor wanted magnus brought back to terra alive to further his plans with the golden throne. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/page/3/#findComment-3334621 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Magnus is simultaneously the most and least ignorant of all the primarchs in my eyes. He knows so much more than most of the other primarchs, but this leads him to not know even more. The whole a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. I can go with arrogant, and maybe naive. He possibly gained these traits from his father. It is easy to be wrong when you are trying to answer a thousand questions. Life is easy when you know that only one thing matters. Most of the primarchs are severely flawed individuals. Most of them are very ignorant in at least one aspect, especially when it is contrasted to their genius in other areas. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/page/3/#findComment-3334654 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 This again boils down to perspective: You see the Emperor using them as unwilling pawns, I see them as generals and leaders of humanity's last, final expanion. (becasue when they are done, there wont be much left) WLK Yeah, you're right. I guess the possibility of both those positions is part of the wealth of the setting. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/page/3/#findComment-3334655 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zynk Kaladin Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 We can all name the wisest of the Primarchs which of the Primarchs where the most ignorant of the Primarchs ? Ignorant of what? All primarchs are ignorant. Their actions in ignorance is what defines them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/page/3/#findComment-3334656 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legionator Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 I think in the end the primarchs and astrates were means to an end. To be used just like the thunder warriors. I don't believe the emperor holds any love in his heart for anything bar his own ambition. He was a tyrant and dictator that punished anyone and anything that didn't believe as he did. I also believe the emperor wanted magnus brought back to terra alive to further his plans with the golden throne. In that case, the Emperor should have designed all of the primarchs as merely generals. But there were architects, scholars, artists, politicans, diplomats among the primarchs. Besides, how could the Emperor dispose 18 primarchs and hundreds of thousands of space marines? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/page/3/#findComment-3334680 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 I think in the end the primarchs and astrates were means to an end. To be used just like the thunder warriors. I don't believe the emperor holds any love in his heart for anything bar his own ambition. He was a tyrant and dictator that punished anyone and anything that didn't believe as he did. I also believe the emperor wanted magnus brought back to terra alive to further his plans with the golden throne. In that case, the Emperor should have designed all of the primarchs as merely generals. But there were architects, scholars, artists, politicans, diplomats among the primarchs. Besides, how could the Emperor dispose 18 primarchs and hundreds of thousands of space marines? The emperor designed the primarchs to be Chaos-proof. The early years of the primarchs on their respective planets made them what they are, not the emperor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/page/3/#findComment-3334687 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legionator Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 I think in the end the primarchs and astrates were means to an end. To be used just like the thunder warriors. I don't believe the emperor holds any love in his heart for anything bar his own ambition. He was a tyrant and dictator that punished anyone and anything that didn't believe as he did. I also believe the emperor wanted magnus brought back to terra alive to further his plans with the golden throne. In that case, the Emperor should have designed all of the primarchs as merely generals. But there were architects, scholars, artists, politicans, diplomats among the primarchs. Besides, how could the Emperor dispose 18 primarchs and hundreds of thousands of space marines? The emperor designed the primarchs to be Chaos-proof. The early years of the primarchs on their respective planets made them what they are, not the emperor. Even before the union with their primarchs, legions shared similarities with their gene fathers. Word Bearers were "Imperial Heralds", War Hounds were reckless in war etc. The Emperor designed them for different purposes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/page/3/#findComment-3334692 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 What if our beloved Mortarion landed on Prospero ? What if Russ landed on Nostramo ? What if Magnus landed on Fenris ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/page/3/#findComment-3334698 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legionator Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 What if our beloved Mortarion landed on Prospero ? What if Russ landed on Nostramo ? What if Magnus landed on Fenris ? I think it is one of the flaws of the setting. In a strange way, every primarch landed on planet that will improve his natural skills. What if Magnus received butcher nails? Maybe the scattering of the primarchs wasn't a random event. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273137-the-most-ignorant-primarchs-during-the-horus-heresy/page/3/#findComment-3334728 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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