MLA Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 I'm playing in a 1500 point Rogue trader coming up at my local store. About 15-20 are expected to show. I've redone my list more times in the pass couple days then a mime get annoying with "I'm trapped in a box" bit. My first game is against a friend who's a guard player taking a Commissar, 3 10man vet squads,marbo, and 6 valks. I anticipated a 1-2 flyer max per list and just wittling them down with my 3 squads of long fangs and kraks. I never thought. Hey what happens if someone's takes more then 3? So being fellow wolf brothers how would you handle 6valks in squads of 2 or 3 doing nothing but bombing runs on the table then right off to come back on his table edge or wherever every other turn. The reason I have this concern is the local store is doing a odd rule implement meaning you lose your out.and since this is my first game I'd hate to lose so early after a 40.00 buy in. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273140-tournament-inquiry/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godhead Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Seems like an odd format. How is it that you already know who you are going to play 1st game and yet it's a one and done type of format on top that? How far out have they announced the pairings? Have they announced missions? Are you playing a pure SW army? What is your list like? At 1500 points, I really think if you face multiple flyers then you might be woefully out numbered. An ADL with a quad gun won't be enough IMO to take out that many flyers, especially with AV 12 hulls. You can try to deny board space for them. If they are squadroned they will have a pretty large footprint. If they were to do 2 squads of 2 thats over 500 points, 3 Squads of 2 would be almost 800 points, and 3 squads of 3 would be almost 1200 points. His support for those planes starts diminishing substantially once he goes over 3. I personally feel like it's an arms race SW's can't win. So don't try. Play the mission and just try to minimize loses to those lascannons and deny him airspace. Oh, and if he is blobbing up on top of those vendettas, then he is just helping you clog the board. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273140-tournament-inquiry/#findComment-3333758 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeatGrinder Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 You table the rest of his army. Thats how Ive been dealing with fliers, once the valks swoop off the table he'll have nothing left and you win. If he has that many fliers he won't have too much else, take squads in pods and drop in close and rapid fire him to death. Then fight him in combat where the fliers cant get you. Dont even bother with the ADL, it'll be the first thing he shoots at. Normally ML fangs and LL RPs put out enough shots to whittle down one or two fliers, but with 9 it'd be foolish to bother trying to focus them down. Thats pretty much the only way Ive found to deal with the necron "9-fliers-but-no-friends" lists. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273140-tournament-inquiry/#findComment-3334318 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLA Posted March 24, 2013 Author Share Posted March 24, 2013 Sorry about the late reply works been busy. So I'm basically running a pure spacewolf list. Since this tournament is following the basic force org and allowing us both HQ slots instead of the usual 1 since last year people complained, I wasn't around so I digress. I don't know how my friend found the pairings but missions weren't apart of the list or hadn't been decided yet, I didn't ask or want to know how he found out. The list I'm running is as follows, 3 rune priests JoTWW Living lighting Murderous hurricane Prescience Chooser of the slain Storm bolters 4 squads of grey hunters MoTW Wolf standard Meltagun Razorback transport with assault cannon 2 typhoon landspeeders 2 long fang 5 missile launchers Going to stick 2 rune priest in 2 different grey hunter squads and run the other 2 squads as escorts and have those 2 squads go collect whatever objects I need with a typhoon bringing up the rear while I stick my long fangs in cover, hopefully some kind of ruin in a corner, not sure if I wanna split them to each table corner or keep them together. It's my first 1500 pt tournament as I'm more use to the 2000+ ones where I'm usually bring 5 troops 3 longfangs 2 squadrons of 3 typhoons 3 hq with wolfguard sprinkled in troops that don't have rune priests in them. Let me know what you think or if I.should change something I have till the end of march to turn my list in. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273140-tournament-inquiry/#findComment-3334472 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLA Posted March 24, 2013 Author Share Posted March 24, 2013 Actually just had an idea, its crazy yes but is it doable? Grey hunters 7 man MoTW Wolf standard Meltagun Attach a rune priest Can I attach a wolfguard in terminator armour with a cyclone missile launcher as well and toss them in q drop pod? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273140-tournament-inquiry/#findComment-3334498 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rift Blade Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Yes you can. It adds up to 10 men so you're good. Just keep in mind that you need 3 Wolf Guard minimum to take them & 5 to be able to take a Hvy Weapon. If you are going to pod a Rune Priest, I suggest Runic Armour for a 2+ save so he'll survive longer. At 1500 pts, the Razorback Assault cannons are nice but a little pricey IMO at this pts lvl. Perhaps change 1 or 2 to Hvy. Bolters & use the points for other things. The only other thing I could say is that Storm Bolters on Rune Priests are kinda of a waste unless it's a points thing & Leader of the Pack rule.Good luck & good hunting. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273140-tournament-inquiry/#findComment-3334499 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forté Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Go for Plasma Guns over Melta too. Better range and good for MEQ killing. Also, power weapon over MotW. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273140-tournament-inquiry/#findComment-3334953 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 does the tournament allows forgeworld rules? the hyperios battery is a cheap space marine 40K allowed unit that can deal with the flyers if placed tactfully/with some luck Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273140-tournament-inquiry/#findComment-3334979 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLA Posted March 25, 2013 Author Share Posted March 25, 2013 Im going to finalize my list tonight and post it when I'm done. More then anything I'm trying to.cram as many ML as I can into 1500 points. As for forgeworld I'm.gonna say no? Il find out tomorrow for sure tho. Forgot to ask why would you choose a power weapon over D6+1 attacks? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273140-tournament-inquiry/#findComment-3335051 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Bretton Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 i really wouldn't worry about the gunships tbh. If they are all valks then you have 2 large blasts str4 ap irrelevant coming from each every turn, sounds nasty but in reality is doesn't do a great deal against marines. If he has a lascannon on the nose as well then it could hurt you, but 1 shot per turn at bs3 is nothing to be afraid of. on the other hand if he has vendettas then that is something to be more concerned about. target them as a priority with your big guns as 3 tl lascannons each turn is likely to cause some problems. any transports become a risk as they will be turned to scrap metal as soon as the gunships appear. personally i would be more worried about the vets that are likely to be in them. Probably going to have demolitions and max special weps, could also have carapace armour which will mean they get a save against you. The demo charge in a unit with demolitions can be extremely unpleasant, 3 squads with that and marbo could realistically table your entire army (i have done it before) now given his list he should need at least 1 vet squad on the table at the start, that would be a risk so he may take 2 in heavy cover with camo cloaks. My advice would be to put everything you have into whatever deploys on the board and hope like hell you wipe them out. if those squads die, you win turn 1 and his fliers never appear. On the other hand just focus the infantry down over the game and eventually his fliers will have to go off the board or hover. also remember he has to come in from his board edge now as they lost deep strike and outflank in the fliers book, so if you get all your units to within 18 inches of his board edge he will not be able to shoot anything without hovering, meaning you have a really boring few turns waiting to win on points (i assume there will be at least 1 objective which you can sit on in his table area, and if all goes well you have slay the warlord, first blood and linebreaker) or you just pop his fliers as they go into hover mode, and if you are in range charge them if the guns don't cut it anyway, thats just my advice on this as someone who uses an airborne assault list, hope it helps Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273140-tournament-inquiry/#findComment-3335078 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLA Posted March 25, 2013 Author Share Posted March 25, 2013 So here's what I came up with. Rune Priest Plasma Pistol Chooser of the Slain JoTWW LL Rune Priest Plasma Pistol JoTWW Murderous Hurr. Rune Priest Plasma Pistol LL Prescience Grey Hunters (5man) squads x4 Plasma Gun Wolf Stanard MoTW Razorback with TL HB Long Fangs (6man) x3 Missile Launcher x5 Razorback with TL HB TON of plasma and missile launchers, guess thats always a plus. Let me know what you think. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273140-tournament-inquiry/#findComment-3335102 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLA Posted March 25, 2013 Author Share Posted March 25, 2013 Here's my 2nd Alternative Wolfguard battle leader 163 Frostblade Saga of the beastslayer Stormbolter Thunderwolf mount Wolftooth necklace Rune Priest 113 Chooser of the Slain JoTWW LL Stormbolter Rune Priest 103 JoTWW Murderous Hurr. Grey Hunters x4 (5man) 600 Mark of the wulfen Wolf Standard Plasma Gun Razorback with TL HB Thunderwolf Calvary (4man) 200 Boltgun CCW Long Fangs x2 (5man) 310 Missile launcher x4 Razorback with TL HB Total comes out to 1489, which should be enough to change a couple things if need be. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273140-tournament-inquiry/#findComment-3335130 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Bretton Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 if im honest i would drop the frost blade on the battle leader, you lose the abilities from the thunderwolf and personally i think they are better Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273140-tournament-inquiry/#findComment-3335137 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostwolfalpha Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 On the first list, why all the Plasma pistols on Rune Priests, they have shooting powers. Also, you cant take codex powers and BRB powers unless they have changed that recently, its one or the other. 5 man squads are kind of small to be putting 35 points of wargear into a 75pt unit. I would put those points into more bodies or bigger guns on the razorbacks. For the second list, I agree with dropping the frost blade, he needs better armour and an invulnerable save to stay alive long enough to do some damage. Why the storm bolter on the RP? Again I think the 5 man packs are a bit expensive, but if you have had success with it, rock out. I would drop the standards. Why the boltgun on the TWC, they cant shoot and assault with it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273140-tournament-inquiry/#findComment-3335314 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Guard Dan Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 I have not played against too many fliers much less Valks. So correct me if I am wrong here. When they come on the board they have to move 18 inches. And they cannot fire backwards right? So get into their deployment zone fast and he will have to go into hover mode if he wants to turn around to shoot you. What else does he typically bring at that point cost? Or is that it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273140-tournament-inquiry/#findComment-3335352 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forté Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Boltguns on TWC don't really make sense. Save points elsewhere and get some Storm Shields on them for your 3++ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273140-tournament-inquiry/#findComment-3335427 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLA Posted March 25, 2013 Author Share Posted March 25, 2013 Didn't know the frost blade wouldn't stack with the TWC stat bonus so il change it back to a thunderhammer. As for the storm bolters on RP I don't know why I gave em, just a cheap option? Il drop the boltguns and SB on the TWC and try and squeeze SS on em. As for the mix of psychic powers was a friends idea and I've never used rune priests before so wasn't really sure if it was legal. I've had okay luck with them, usually play 2k games and run 6 troops with 3 squads together with assault cannons on the razors with a rune priest in one of the squads and most don't usually get in CC with em unless their terminators. Which few ppl bring. As for the valks guy he's only trying this experiment with this tournie I believe. Usually runs 7 leman russ tanks with chims and vet squads. I think I'm going to do the second list and make the appropriate changes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273140-tournament-inquiry/#findComment-3335567 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Bretton Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 again the thunder hammer doesn't stack with the twm but it is a nice weapon on its own, personally i would take a fist though, its 5 points cheaper and in almost all situations does exactly the same job (only time it will be different is against characters with eternal warrior or something t6 with multi wounds Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273140-tournament-inquiry/#findComment-3335870 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rift Blade Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Just as an aside, the Frost Blade or THunder Hammer don't stack with the Thunder Wolf's Rending but you always have the option of using one OR the other. You just have to decide which at the start of combat. I like your 2nd list a little better but then again I love my Thunder Wolf Cavalry. Definitly get some S.S.'s on them if you can, they will survive longer. Everyone hastheir own preference for Psychic powers but any particular reason for JOTWW on both RP? I find LL & MH more useful generally in Tournaments. Perhaps LL & MH on one & LL & JOTWW on the other. The 1st list is good but I think your 2nd list is better, especially with some tweaking as everyone has suggested. And yes, I agree with all the others about the size of your GH packs but if it works for you keep them. Good luck, Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273140-tournament-inquiry/#findComment-3336427 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLA Posted March 27, 2013 Author Share Posted March 27, 2013 I have a 1000 pt game Monday with a friends dark angel terminators list. I believe he's going with belial and 15 terminators some of them knights with feel no pain possibly a landraider crusader. I'm gonna take the above list cut down to HQ wolf lord Thunderwolf mount Ss Wolftooth neck (Not sure what weapon to give him that benefits him the best) Troops 3x gh squads 5man Wolfstandard Motw Plasma gun Razor with HB Fast attack TWC All with SS Ccw Heavy long fangs (5 man) 4x HB Razor with HB NOT exactly what I'd like to take but since I know exactly what he's gonna do I have to keep everything seperated so he doesn't deepstrike on a cluster of my force and lay it out in 1 turn. Comments or ideas for this mini game? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273140-tournament-inquiry/#findComment-3336522 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Guard Dan Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 There is some confusion. Frost blades do stack with strength boost of TWM. But when you use a special weapon the model loses rending. Thunder hammers double strength to 10. not 4*2 +1. The +1 Str from TWM is to the base characteristic. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273140-tournament-inquiry/#findComment-3336553 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Bretton Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 think i would try put as much ap2 in the list as possible, if you can i would probably put plasma cannons on your long fangs as they just eat terminators, might have to sacrifice something to do it, but 4 small blast str7 ap2 with the option to split fire is extremely unpleasant for terms Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273140-tournament-inquiry/#findComment-3336629 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLA Posted March 27, 2013 Author Share Posted March 27, 2013 So what would be better a frost axe or th? Also for me to.use all.plasma cannons I'd have to.lose my thunder wolves or a squad of gh. And he knows about the lethality of LFs so I expect them to get poped on turn 2 easily. Why I.didn't put Much into them since I'm running only 1 squad of em. If I had my.usual 3 I'd be more then happy to do.it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273140-tournament-inquiry/#findComment-3336639 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Brother 92 Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 A TH is a much better choice compared to Frost Axe - both marks you down to I1 but FA leaves you at S7 whereas the TH hits at S10 (plus the Special Rule that knocks the foe down to I1 next round)... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273140-tournament-inquiry/#findComment-3338349 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLA Posted March 30, 2013 Author Share Posted March 30, 2013 Well both lists Got murdered horribly by my 2 friends playing in the tournament one played dark angels drop pod ravenwing the other a cultist massed list. I did better against chaos once into h2h but got rolled over by his 20 attack or so lord on a jugger. They helped me with a tourney competetive list afterwards il post it tomorrow as I'm licking my wounds tonight. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273140-tournament-inquiry/#findComment-3338770 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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