Has anyone actually willingly joined chaos?

[Exxonvaldez]

After reading a bunch of fiction, HH and other works it seems as though very few of tne of the Space Marine Chapters/Legions joined chaos willingly.  The writers make it appear as though there was no choice or they were straight up duped into siding with a particular god.  The chaos renegade chapters or simply put renegade chapters usually leave the Imperium because their chapter master is power hungry, or they get fed up with serving a false Emperor (there are many of reasons but you get the jist)

 

A couple examples.

 

Horus and Fulgrim are possessed by daemons and the lodges loyal to them cull the marines who won't join the primarchs.

Lorgar who idolizes the emperor as a god, misplaces his faith.

Dan Abnet who wrote Legion (one of the best in the HH series IMHO) has Alpharius on a mission to thwart the chaos gods but in turn has to work against his fellow chapters.

The Death Guard are forced to join Nurgle or be destroyed and Typhus is partially to blame.

Magnus destroys the Golden Throne by accident and is forced to join Tzeentch or be destroyed.

Night Haunter used chaos as a shock tactic but never sided with gods.

Perturabo has no allegiance to chaos whatsoever, he joined Horus out of jealousy of Dorn.

 

Angron seems to actually have no loyalty to the emperor.  He just wants to fight and doesn't care who the opponent is.  So joining Khorne was probably a choice he made unlike his brothers.

 

The Red Corsairs made a pact with chaos in order to survive.  

The Soul Drinkers are tainted by chaos but fight against chaos.

 

This are all vague summaries and I am aware there are much more to the stories but to sum up the motivations for siding with chaos I think these will suffice.  

 

 

Are there any chapters that sought out chaos outright, who wanted what they had to offer?

[the jeske]

more then a few dudes that had the option die or go chaos , went chaos. even with the rather low survivial rate of chaos worshipers it is better for some then dieing.

[Exxonvaldez]

That does not answer my question.  I'm looking for examples where they had a choice that didn't involve them choosing death or loyalty to the Imperium.

[Chaeron]

Well, the Death Guard chose to embrace anythng that would save them being ravaged by the warp storms - so as blessed respite, perhaps that would be appropriate?

[derpasaurus]

Are you talking "chaos" as in the ruinous powers? Or more generally like renegade? Night Lords are all about being renegade, because The Emprah basically sold them out after telling Kurze to use terror tactics, then calling him back to Terra to answer for his "crimes," then using an assassin (the very tactics he supposedly hated) to murder Kurze after he refused to return. But they don't traffic in daemons and silly worship.

And didn't Huron pretty much just decide to go renegade when he realized just how much power he had and how much money he could make? The Badab War was all about his little fiefdom he basically stole from the Imperium. (And took 10 years, woot) Red Corsairs don't follow a god, either, IIRC, they're basically super space pirates. 

But yeah, Death Guard went willingly, pretty sure the Word Bearers did, too, though I could be wrong, I don't know as much about them. I know Lorgar was chastised for worshiping The Emprah as a god, and the chaos gods actually answered him, IIRC. They actively go around and try to convert people to chaos, like some sort of bizzarro missionary group.

[Vesper]

The Grey Sensei.

[totgeboren]

This seems to be a topic about free will and consequentialism to be honest, as you could well argue that for example Lorgar joined chaos willingly. He had to make a choice between his oaths of loyalty to a leader that demanded the truth be suppressed on one hand, and the truth of the universe which was not something he liked at all on the other.

So he had a choice in what path to take, though he had no choice in being a person that valued truth above all else, and he had no choice in ending up on a chaos corrupted world as young.

Anyway, he valued the truth about the universe above what he hoped about the nature of the universe.

 

I dunno, no one walks around and one day decided, "Hey, lets join chaos!"

Chaos is a bit more insidious that that, probing you for weaknesses and offering that which you want the most. So really, everyone joins willingly. Of course they could always accept their fate and continue to serve an oppressive and callous regime they hate, or simply die at the hands of enemies or whatever situation they find themselves in that they don't like, but which turning to chaos allows them to change.

 

Remember, in our reality, people who take control of their lives and say no to injustice and oppression, or who are ambitious and industrious are viewed as heroes of a sort. Doing the same in w40k leads straight into the embrace of the dark gods, so it's a bit hard to relate to. Being a good person in w40k is often the first step on the road to damnation.

[GenEngineer]

While Fulgrim's situation with a demon whispering to him makes it hard to say whether or not he chose it willingly, the rest of his Legion dove in with glee. The entire book of Fulgrim shows how people, from mortals to Astartes to a Primarch himself can choose Chaos after listening to its siren call.

 

Nobody forced them to be a monster. At no point were they held at gunpoint and told to convert or die, not even Fulgrim. And while Fulgrim might have been misled, Eidolon wasn't. Lucius wasn't. Fabius Bile wasn't. Kynska (composer of the Maraviglia) wasn't. D'Angelus wasn't. Nobody on board was lied to. The influence of Chaos simply made them freer to make the choice they longed to make.

[Durus]

[...]

Remember, in our reality, people who take control of their lives and say no to injustice and oppression, or who are ambitious and industrious are viewed as heroes of a sort. Doing the same in w40k leads straight into the embrace of the dark gods, so it's a bit hard to relate to. Being a good person in w40k is often the first step on the road to damnation.

Good post, but I don't entirely agree with that last bit. The Imperium is certainly opressive and injust, measured by our standards, but within the logic of their reality that is necessary for survival, so you might say a good thing.

Good and bad are relative terms.

 

 

Fall and corruption of a hero is usually heralded by a seemingly virtuous endeavour that turns around on them. Making a deal to save someone, a quest that turns into singleminded obsession or simply naivety or ignorance on their part.

Other common themes are ambition, pride or cravings for revenge (righteous anger usually).

 

There usually is a "chink in the armour" of the hero that leaves them open to corruption.

These human flaws are present in everyone, which is why chaos has such a menacing presence.

Noone is above corruption.

Chaos basically takes the literary theme of internal conflict and turns it into a personified malevolent force represented by the dark gods.

 

There was a good text about the nature of chaos in one of the older books that described the twofold nature of chaos.

Khorne can be martial skill and honorable combat, but also butchery and murder.

Nurgle can be death and rebirth.

Tzeentch knowledge and progress as well as intrigue and deception

Slaaneh selfimprovement or decadence and hedonism.

 

The point is, nobody does things he would consider evil himself, just for the sake of it. Their perspective shifts until what they do becomes evil for those on the receiving end.

[derpasaurus]

Well I doubt people decided one day to just go be pawns of whatever god, sure. Which is why I phrased my question the way I did in my above comment. "Joining Chaos" implies getting suckered. You decide to make a choice that "seemed like a good idea at the time," or you have some subconscious desire, whether it be for greater recognition or an end to pain or oppression. An opportunity presents itself, and you walk the path.

 

Then, far too late, you realize that your prayer for deliverance from the terrible disease you were suffering from was answered by Nurgle, and you lose yourself to his will.

"Renegade" might be a better topic for "does anyone ever contumaciously choose...?" because while being a renegade means you are outside the emperor's light, you are not yet prey for chaos, either. A renegade is perhaps the only truly free person in the world of 40k, but they walk a very dangerous path... 

[Beachymike123]

the thing to remember in 40k is that the chaos gods are made from raw emotion, and so call to those traits in an individual to bring them under their banner. you are right to say that horus and co were duped to an extent, but they were given a choice, which is what makes their downfall even more tragic (remember that sanguinus was offered to join horus before he was ultimately killed, making him even more of a hero in the eyes of his proteges). however, although the larger characters (primarchs, legion heroes etc) were duped, many mortals chose to join chaos willingly afterwards for power (the chap who wounded horus in false gods, can't remember his name, chose to join nurgle for power iirc). the call of the gods will call to certain aspects, but mostly those who want a quick fix to power, so although those in power will be led astray, those who want it will go willingly. 

[Vorenus]

While not about Space Marines, per se (although the Deathwatch and Grey Knights get a couple of cameos), probably the best books in the Black Library that address the theme of choice and accountability, and the consequences of choosing the powers associated with the Warp, are Dan Abnett's "Eisenhorn" and "Ravenor" series.  If you haven't read them yet, I highly recommend them.

[Wade Garrett]

So far it seems that Erebus and Kor Phereon weren't tempted, tricked, taunted, or what have you into joining team Spikes on Everything.

 

And I'd recommend Ben Coulter's Grey Knights books for a look at the allure and mind set of Tzeenchtian and Khornate cults.

[DavidKits]

There is only one case that i remember where a space marine willingly turned... and he did it due to the reaction of the people of the planet by what he did. was in the book Treacheries(sp) of the space marines with Constantius(sp) the Liberator(sp).

 

 in that story it was even admitted by one of his brothers that once the governing body of the planet had been killed to end the genestealer cults that was it nothing else they needed to do was needed and he even advised in saying "lets go home we aren't needed" but Constantius was so ... angry over the people crying out and going into looting and blaming the Sons of Gulliman(sp) for what they did he just... snapped and willingly turned his back on everything before. wasn't a moment where he was offered this or that he just went "ya know what... F it.. I'll show em what a Monster really is"

 

 now it is admitted he knew that sooner or later the Imperinum would respond and come to kill him but by that point he really didn't fully care he was quite set in mind that no one could after all he beat the tar out of and killed the warband leaders of a dozen chaos space marine warbands.

 

 so on the matter of willingly turning... of all the ones i've read so far apart form Lorgar from what i got the just of, Constanius really was the only one who willing just... turned without a care in the world over his choice apart from how fast he needed to butcher the members of his squad who were still loyal to the Imperium.

 

 David.

[Brother Captain Kezef]

Lorgar willingly chose chaos. He was never forced, he actively sought out and chose the worship of chaos.

[RapatoR]

IIRC Huron and/or some of Astral Claws secretly worshipped dark gods before Badab war ended.
Edit: Also, we can say that marines didn't freely choose to fight for the Emperor either. They are torn from their homes at young age, to be brainwashed and indoctrinated for their whole life. When you are led to believe something for your entire life, you just don't magically start to think otherwise. It is usally tiggered by some event(s) or experience(s).

I'll set an example (hopefully it doesn't offend anyone):

You can compare decision to go chaosy, to a decision to be a vegetarian:

Sometimes you are forced into it (health problems), sometimes you decide after an experience that shaken you to the very core (visit of a slaughterhouse), or after series of small events/experiences (you heard/read it is more profitable to your health, you dont agree with animals suffering and so on) or just because your buddies went veggie too, so what the hell...

Point is, those people decide willingly, but there is always something that is motivation for their actions. Hell, is there someone who tried to change something with his life, for no good reason?