Tiger9gamer Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 so recently, I noticed my mech army has been playing really defensively. I like to stay in my deployment zone and let them come to me, but I want to have a jack of all traits kind of army that can attack and defend. How do I feel more bold to attack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pueriexdeus Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Get in their face fast. Really I have found that dropping a Dread or two DW Squads preferably all three in the face of the OP fiercest maneuver unit immediately will satisfy the offensive theam. On another up-side it will then tar-pit the one or two units the OP was hoping to get into your zone. Now this is problematic with Daemon armies since their all DSing anyway. But it'll still work to take or deny objectives in their zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkspleen Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 You need the right units for it, the things that I find are best for getting on the offensive are things that can move quickly and choose their engagements, things that deny armour saves, forcing your opponent to use cover, and things that don't have to expose a weakness to be effective. The ultimate in this is the Black Knight, super mobile, amazing shooting, competent in melee, impractical to tarpit thanks to hit & run, you will take the fight to the enemy easily with them and there's no obvious solution to them short of AP3 templates. But there's always the option of Deathwing units (the Deathwing Assault will often get your enemy on the backfoot before the models hit the board, just by announcing you are using it), I like a PFG shielded Vindicator for swooping in and punishing any enemies that leave themselves exposed. You will need to be able to use assaults well too since they not only protect your forward units from enemy fire, but will often be necessary to dislodging the cover that you are forcing your opponent to cower in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Heh. For me, it's really one or the other, and it's not so much a dichotomy of offense/defense, but more like shooty/melee. Can't do a decent gunline if you're too worried about delivering power weapon attacks into his deployment zone, and if you're jumping up and down on the head of his critical unit, what are fire support units going to be doing, since they can't shoot into melee? That's not to say that I don't have shooting and melee in each list, but I'm really selling out to one or the other. Shooty lists benefit from counter-assault units, and assaulty units benefit from whatever they can shoot on the charge to cut the target down to manageable size, and to suppress enemy counter-assault, but it's really one aspect in support of the other, one is clearly dominant. My shooty list doesn't even have a proper melee unit, just power swords all around and Azrael to counter-charge with. That list has a bigger problem, and that's the mobility deficit of a gunline. Instead of supporting shooting with melee, I'm choosing to support shooting with speed (bikes), since all the killing in the world is useless if you can't claim or contest distant objectives. OTOH, my assaulty army (deathwing) packs a ton of small arms fire, but it's all vehicle mounted or termie-carried, it in no way detracts from the ability (and mission) to pile in and fist some fools. The DSing termies are tactical termies only for three reasons. First, so they don't completely waste the turn on which they arrive. Second, to take advantage of vengeful strike. And third, because, being boot-mounted instead of crusader-mounted, those squads might as well dakka as they maneuver...but they're maneuvering towards a fistfight, they're definitely attacking, not defending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azrael Turnbull Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Bring plenty of Tactical Marine squads. If you're against Guard or Tau, stab them all with your Combat Knives. If you're against Orks or Tyranids, make them work to get to you. Against other Marines? Well, we have Plasma weapons for them. ;) Every other unit (Black Knights) is a bonus, but make sure you have a decent amount of Tactical's first (unless you're a Death/Ravenwing list.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 With the vehicle turn down in this edition, I find Mechanized formations to be lackluster. Even the Blood Angels Blitzkrieg can be stopped dead in its tracks with a well rounded list. I always try to cram a couple of vehicles to my lists, due to the fact that I need the mobility (sort of) and the extra weaponry. But when all is said and done, For my offensives I have found that the humble dreadnaught accompanied by a techmarine is back with a vengeance. I like presenting the enemy with a hard hitting, hard to dislodge spear-tip and use the ravenwing to either outflank or either hit the week flank of the enemy. Usually a terminator or two squads will drop behind the enemy and by turn three I try to have my opponent surrounded and overwhelm him with target saturation. Unless he starts foaming he wont be able to deal with everything without stretching his forces, and that usually plays to our hands. Dismember them one piece at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WatchCaptainAzrael Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 To play offensively, first you must close the distance between your opponent, and then, as you stare him straight in the eye, millimeters away from his face, you holler "REPENT YOU SACK OF TRAITOROUS S***!!!" Bonus points if you get spittle in his eyes and the store manager asks you to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsev Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 To play offensively, first you must close the distance between your opponent, and then, as you stare him straight in the eye, millimeters away from his face, you holler "REPENT YOU SACK OF TRAITOROUS S***!!!" Bonus points if you get spittle in his eyes and the store manager asks you to leave. ha ha ha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elphilo Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Playing offensively I've found is actually a mindset you have to work into. For awhile I would take these offensive units and hold them back. I would end up losing badly because when they finally started to do what I took them for, they weren't in the right position. So my advice is this; when taking units in your list, have a good idea of what you want to do with them. Don't worry about what your opponents will do. If you take a LRC with 8 Deathwing Knights with the thought of ramming them into your opponents lines, do that. Don't hold back at the last minute and say "Well it would be better if they came to me because of XYZ." No, bad *slaps nose with rolled up news paper*. You took that unit to ram into your opponents front lines, now go ahead and do that. Like I said, it took a long time for me to think like this. But in the end being aggressive is all about making your opponent react to YOU, not the other way around. I find when I start to build reactionary lists I have already lost. That's my two cents anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted March 25, 2013 Author Share Posted March 25, 2013 okay, thanks Elphllo! I'm mostly scared about losing my heavy tanks and stuff first turn, so I hold back with them. Maybe I should just gun it into them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elphilo Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 okay, thanks Elphllo! I'm mostly scared about losing my heavy tanks and stuff first turn, so I hold back with them. Maybe I should just gun it into them? That was my fear as well. So yeah, send them forward. But if you could protect them do that. Just don't be in the mindset of "I don't want them to die." Because they will, and their roll is a means to get your guys into combat. If they do that, then mission accomplished. Anything done after their payload has been delivered is just icing on the cake :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted March 25, 2013 Author Share Posted March 25, 2013 okay, so what about vindicators? they have been the epitome of my defense so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elphilo Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Honestly? I send them up there with my assaulty units. It makes your opponents choose, either be assaulted to death and shoot the vindicators. Or shoot the assaulty unit and get shot to pieces by the vindicators. Either way they are gunning for front lines/flanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted March 25, 2013 Author Share Posted March 25, 2013 okay. I have a LRC with knights too. That should do some damage, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artemid Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 okay. I have a LRC with knights too. That should do some damage, right? Not just "some" :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsev Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 okay. I have a LRC with knights too. That should do some damage, right? with the 2 vindicators you now have a very very good spearhead for your army, if you want insurance, if we can say that, pick up either a libby or tech marine with a pfg put him ina rhino, razorback with another squad or in the raider itself and just never get out. there you have 2 av13 and 1 av14, all with a 4++ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted March 26, 2013 Author Share Posted March 26, 2013 hmmm, but can you disembark the squad and leave the techy inside? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brom MKIV Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 I second that offensive is a mindset, a tendency if you will. But thats only half of it IOM, the other half is building a list to support your style. I am more averse to playing defensive by nature but if the situation is right and my list supports it then I can pull it off and sometimes it helps. The best lists I believe are offensive by nature with the ability to go defensive, and usually include plenty of redundancy. Vindis I also play very aggressively, as in 2 alongside 3 drop pods and 4 TLAC razorbacks a dread plus various other things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 hmmm, but can you disembark the squad and leave the techy inside? Yes. As for the crusaderload of knights, accompany them with a crusaderload of assault terminators led by Belial...and put tactical termies in DWA or reserve. Now the enemy has a real problem. He won't like his chances of potting BOTH crusaders fast enough to matter...so does he make the killier knights walk, or does he make belial and company get out, vastly reducing the scatter-free deepstrike bubble, as well as hindering its movement towards the preplanned deepstrike target, and hindering the movement of a (arguably more important) scoring unit in the bargain? Also...giving the enemy nothing but AV14 to shoot at for two whole turns really guts a shooty opponent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsev Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 ninja'd by march10k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted March 26, 2013 Author Share Posted March 26, 2013 sweet! thanks, March! I only have one land raider though X-X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsev Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 sweet! thanks, March! I only have one land raider though X-X then replace one of them for 2 vindicators and half some pts to spend else where... giving your enemy another high priority target, thats he either dels with or gets pie plate crushed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notmattlythgoe Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 When I play offensively I make sure to bring my opponent's mother into it a lot and insult his intelligence and call him ugly. Oh, you mean like offensive/defensive... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 When I play offensively I make sure to bring my opponent's mother into it a lot and insult his intelligence and call him ugly. Oh, you mean like offensive/defensive... You also don't shower, and make sure you're spitting skoal on the carpet and rubbing it in with your boot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 And then they wander why certain kids with issues grab a chainsaw before going to school.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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