Kol Saresk Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 5: Both Angron and Fulgrim turning into daemon princes(Even though I am kind of confused with Fulgrim's ascension becuase from what I read I thought he needed to kill Perturabo, so if anyone could explain in dumbed down terms that would be great )It wasn't kill Perturabo so much as absorb his life force. When the little gem-doohicky was destroyed, the energy was pretty much split between Fulgrim and Perturabo. I think the portrayal is that Fulgrim didn't realize just how much power he was getting from sacrificing the eldar cemetery world and all the spirits within. That gave him the extra boost to make up for the loss of power from the jewel-mabob being destroyed and allowed him to ascend. At least, that's what I got out of it. Not sure if that's the "official" explanation or not. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273258-favourite-scene-of-the-heresy-so-far/page/5/#findComment-3368785 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vile Siren Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 Offical or not that is better than nothing thanks for helping explain that part I hope I wasn't the only person confused by that scene but either way seeing a primarch turn into a daemon prince is awesome! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273258-favourite-scene-of-the-heresy-so-far/page/5/#findComment-3368796 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 I thought the strength all went back to Perterabo, but that the... momentum of the transformation, or some external force ie. Slaanesh, instead shattered all the soulstones on the planet to replace the lost energy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273258-favourite-scene-of-the-heresy-so-far/page/5/#findComment-3368814 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 Well there were a whole lot of things in angel Exterminatus that made no sense. The should stealing gem being just one if many. Â More importantly though, Fulgrim was going to kill another Primarch. And then tell Horus what? That the guy he needed to conduct the siege decided to call it quits and disappeared? Too much of a stretch in logic to make that one make any kind of sense. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273258-favourite-scene-of-the-heresy-so-far/page/5/#findComment-3368825 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badaboom Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 Well there were a whole lot of things in angel Exterminatus that made no sense. The should stealing gem being just one if many.  More importantly though, Fulgrim was going to kill another Primarch. And then tell Horus what? That the guy he needed to conduct the siege decided to call it quits and disappeared? Too much of a stretch in logic to make that one make any kind of sense.    At the moment when Angel Exterminatus happens, Fulgrim´s mind seems all but distorted, so he probably thinks more about his selfish goal of ascending to daemonhood that about anything else. It was one of the worst novels I´ve read, although I truly enjoied some parts, specially the personality of Perturabo. I sincerely do not understand why he and the Iron Warriors, who are traitors but otherwise normal, professional, efficient Astartes, tolerate the degenerated Emperor´s Children. I really expected them to fire upon them early on. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273258-favourite-scene-of-the-heresy-so-far/page/5/#findComment-3368888 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ada Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Well there were a whole lot of things in angel Exterminatus that made no sense. The should stealing gem being just one if many. More importantly though, Fulgrim was going to kill another Primarch. And then tell Horus what? That the guy he needed to conduct the siege decided to call it quits and disappeared? Too much of a stretch in logic to make that one make any kind of sense. I think its probably worth remembering that despite making planet fall on terra the Emperors Children didn't even take part in the siege. They simply persued their own needs, I think this tells us that they have no real interest in the "greater cause" they look out for themselves and take what they need from the heresy. Â So, for me it's not that greater stretch of the imagination to have Fulgrim kill off Perturabo, he was following his own track and to hell with the rest. Reading Angel Exterminatus and the short story in the Primarchs gives a great insight into just how far the EC have fallen. Â It would have made for an interesting conversation between Fulgrim and Horus though wouldn't it :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273258-favourite-scene-of-the-heresy-so-far/page/5/#findComment-3369331 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Yeah, ironic that Horus and Lorgar wanted to free Fulgrim from his possession and instead not only does he free himself but becomes a full-fledged daemon in the process. Â EDIT: Although I have to wonder what happened to the daemon in the painting. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273258-favourite-scene-of-the-heresy-so-far/page/5/#findComment-3369333 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Fulgrim probably still has it on his wall in the Eye. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273258-favourite-scene-of-the-heresy-so-far/page/5/#findComment-3369339 Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlos_spiceyweiner Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 One of mine's in Angel Exterminatus, where Kroeger imagines(?) himself in WW1, especially getting a bayonet in the guts from someone we may have seen before.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273258-favourite-scene-of-the-heresy-so-far/page/5/#findComment-3369431 Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveNYC Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 I thought the strength all went back to Perterabo, but that the... momentum of the transformation, or some external force ie. Slaanesh, instead shattered all the soulstones on the planet to replace the lost energy.  Or that Slaanesh was impressed enough with Fulgrims reaction to getting crumped by Perturabo that he made him a Daemon Prince anyway, and the shattering of the soul stones was due to the presence of so much Slaaneshian energy. It's not really like any of the Chaos Gods require an influx of power in order to drive the transformation of someone into a Daemon Prince.  I'm just not sure what exactly was going on with the Eldar keeping an entire planet full of soulstones located in the middle of the eye of terror. There's "She'll never look for it there!" and then there's stupid. And where did they come from anyway? In the Great Crusade time period, it hasn't been that long since the Fall, which AFAIK was when they first started using the things. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273258-favourite-scene-of-the-heresy-so-far/page/5/#findComment-3370174 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Don't get me started on how the timing of the Eldar fall makes no sense. I just tend to do a double think and assume the Fall happened about M2-5 - ie before humanity's first galatic expansion, while also accepting it occurred around the time of Unification as per GW's timeline. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273258-favourite-scene-of-the-heresy-so-far/page/5/#findComment-3370655 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Well there were a whole lot of things in angel Exterminatus that made no sense. The should stealing gem being just one if many. Â More importantly though, Fulgrim was going to kill another Primarch. And then tell Horus what? That the guy he needed to conduct the siege decided to call it quits and disappeared? Too much of a stretch in logic to make that one make any kind of sense. Â Two points that do make sense to me: Â 1. Fulgrim's personal rise to daemonhood seems to be his only real motivation once getting into bed with Slaanesh. Maybe even more so since letting the daemon-thing possess him long enough to kill Ferus Manus. Can we be sure his actions are all his own? Â 2. Fulgrim appears (to me at least) to be the most selfish, self aggrandizing Primarch of them all. He's Lucius on a larger scale. It appears that mentality is a reoccurring theme throughout his Legion. Do you think any part of the Emperor's Children motives were dictated by Horus' needs? I don't. Heck they could hardly form a coherent fleet above Hydro Cordatus leading to the escape of a single Thunderhawk. Â I think between sips of Goofy-Chaos-Juice and smoking pipes full of 'Eye-O-Terror-Wacky-Tabbacy', there's very little the Emperor's Children value outside of their own immediate and personal desires. Â Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273258-favourite-scene-of-the-heresy-so-far/page/5/#findComment-3370913 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Rawl Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Anything with Khârn so far, he was awesomely done in Betrayer and the end where he smacked Erebus around with a re-forged Gorechild was fantastic. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273258-favourite-scene-of-the-heresy-so-far/page/5/#findComment-3370955 Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlos_spiceyweiner Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 When Vulkan gets through the layrinth in Vulkan Lives, retrieves Dawn Bringer, and proceeds to lay the smack down on Curze with the line "It's also a Hammer" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273258-favourite-scene-of-the-heresy-so-far/page/5/#findComment-3451940 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Angel Exterminatus makes sense when you consider the Dark Eldar subplot. Â They gave Fulgrim the life force stealing stone so his ascension would be fuelled by Pert's soul (I assume the ritual had to take place on the Crone World for various Chaos ritual magic reasons and stuff) which would leave all the soul stone intact for them to swoop down and steal once the Traitor Marines busted the defenses open. Â When the Raven Guard smashed the gem, Fulgrim's daemonic transformation was powered by the Soul Stones instead, which is why Karuchi Vorha was throwing such a hissy fit at the end, since he promised Vect (I assume) a whole planet full of eldar souls and instead they just got et by the III Primarch. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273258-favourite-scene-of-the-heresy-so-far/page/5/#findComment-3452374 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 To be honest, the final double duel of Loken , Tarik, Aximand and Abaddon was pretty epic and set the whole series up for me I think, I'm just starting to read the first three books again, but it was kind of the definitive moment of all three books, it all lead up to that event. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273258-favourite-scene-of-the-heresy-so-far/page/5/#findComment-3452381 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 When the Raven Guard smashed the gem, Fulgrim's daemonic transformation was powered by the Soul Stones instead, which is why Karuchi Vorha was throwing such a hissy fit at the end, since he promised Vect (I assume) a whole planet full of eldar souls and instead they just got et by the III Primarch. Unless I'm forgetting my DE fluff, Vect is just a lesser warlord right now. His rise to fame is cemented by pretty much eradicating the upper hierarchies by pitting them against each other and other foes. The reason why I am sure it's after the Heresy is because a ship bearing Salamanders is used in his plots, ending with the Salamander CHAPTER becoming involved. 5e fluff, so not a throwback from when there were no Legions. Â In case your assumption that it is Vect is based on him being top dog. Technically, it still could have been. He was still a leader, just small change at that time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273258-favourite-scene-of-the-heresy-so-far/page/5/#findComment-3452406 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Â When the Raven Guard smashed the gem, Fulgrim's daemonic transformation was powered by the Soul Stones instead, which is why Karuchi Vorha was throwing such a hissy fit at the end, since he promised Vect (I assume) a whole planet full of eldar souls and instead they just got et by the III Primarch.In case your assumption that it is Vect is based on him being top dog. Technically, it still could have been. He was still a leader, just small change at that time. Â Pretty much. Me knowledge of the wee inferior xenos breeds is somewhat lacking. Especially the pansy space elves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273258-favourite-scene-of-the-heresy-so-far/page/5/#findComment-3452420 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Visitor13 Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 A closely connected pair of scenes in Betrayer. In the first one, following an Ultramarine boarding action on the Conqueror, Angron checks up on a permanently crippled crew member called Lehralla, showing her kindness he shows no one else, and from her reaction it seems that he does so consistently. Later we read how he completely loses his humanity upon ascending to daemonprincehood, but just before that we see Lehralla killed in another Ultramarine attack. Powerful stuff that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273258-favourite-scene-of-the-heresy-so-far/page/5/#findComment-3452433 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 "I was there the day Horus slew the Emperor. . ." Â Not only can I not think of a better opener to the series, but it remains, down through all of the books so far published, my absolute favorite Heresy moment. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273258-favourite-scene-of-the-heresy-so-far/page/5/#findComment-3452444 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Heinrich Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 So many great moments it's really almost impossible for me to say one in particular. But if I had to pick the most epic moment, it would probably be Abnett's description of the opening moments of the Battle for Calth when the suicide ship smashes through those orbital platforms and precipitates one of the most destructive events in 40k history. I have never read such an accurate, visceral, and monolithically destructive description of ruin as that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273258-favourite-scene-of-the-heresy-so-far/page/5/#findComment-3452500 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMalone Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 The first chapter of Horus rising. I was hooked straight away thinking it was the battle for terra :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273258-favourite-scene-of-the-heresy-so-far/page/5/#findComment-3452521 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonal Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Skipped the vast majority of the thread as I've hardly touched on the actual Heresy books at all, but I simply adored all of "The Iron Within". A long scene, I admit, but it's hard to pick just one moment. Â If I was forced to choose, however, I would say it is when Dantioch meets, and throws out, the Iron Warrior delegation. Simply too cool. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273258-favourite-scene-of-the-heresy-so-far/page/5/#findComment-3452868 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasper_Hawser Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Hi, I would like to add my few cents by organising my moments by Primarchs. Although I have only read 5 of the books, I have read excerpts from the other books when I found out about the inceident, such as Corax nearly killing Lorgar in The First Heretic. I just happened to flip through the book and read that awesome scene.  Robuite Guilliman (From Know no Fear) 1) When the invasion of Calth happened, Guilliman was still in denial that Lorgar was an outright traitor, and somehow believed HE HIMSELF had somehow antagonised the Word Bearers into attacking the Ultramarines. To me this is significant as before this, the fluff I read always said that Guilliman looked down on Lorgar and the Word BEarers as though he was better than them, when in fact, Guilliman never did. From what I heard from First Heretic, he didn't exactly want to be the one to punish the Word Bearers.  2) Conversely, when he had final undeniable truth that Lorgar had indeed betrayed and attacked without provocation, his communicated reply to Lorgar was ACID EPIC on massive scale, in a nutshell wishing the pits of hell onLorgar. It was so impressive that Lorgar actually replied back in vox communication, amused and impressed that his brother finally learnt to really HATE.  Leman Russ 1) Surprisingly, just before he invaded Prospero, he PLEADED with Magnus to surrender, saying he did not want to be the one to execute him. Again this was head turning as before I read the book, I thought Russ hated Magnus just on principle, when in fact, he did regard him as a brother, albeit as an errant one. This was the part he talked to Kasper Hawser as though talking to Magnus as he thought Kasper was a spy camera for Magnus when in fact it was the chaos gods who implanted Kasper.  2) There are also many scenes in Prospero Burns regarding Leman Russ, but what struck me was that while easy to see Leman Russ as a barbarian, in the end he was really a primarch PRETENDING to be a barbarian. Even the Custodes said so, something like, "..... really Lord, all this strutting around like a barbarian is amusing but......."  Lorgar, Corrax and Night Haunter combined. 1) Yep this is the part I read in First Heretic and it was EPIC. Lorgar and Corax rage at each other for slaughtering each others sons, with Lorgar lamenting that he hated fighting while Corax just couldn't understand the concept of betrayal. Corrax being an INCH of killing Lorgar and then what happens?  BATMAN! Ahem, Night Haunter just strolls along like its an afternoon picnic, firmly holds the claw poised to strike Lorgar, disappointingly scolding Lorgar for being the pansy he was while Corax is struggling to free himself. Calling Corax little raven indeed.  Rogal Dorn 1) Don't really like the fellow, but there was that short story in Age of Darkness where he intervened the Custodes from killing Rogal's own agent who was supplying Horus with false information.  Magnus: - Sorry, haven't finished Thousand Sons yet.  Angron 1) Yeah I read the part where he ranted to Guilliman on his version of honour. While I respect Angron's perspective, what I don't understand is why he can't GROW beyond it. Russ tried to tell him. Even Lorgar tried to tell him. But no, the idiot was so set on his opinions, even though he knew it was tearing his own mind and legion apart. Sigh, I really pity the fool for choosing to be the way he is. I know the Butcher's NAils were irreversibly killing him, but to me, he had plenty of time before then to rectify the problem. ANyway , that's a topic for another time.  Jagathai Khan - so far no fluff on him except in Scars which I haven't read.  Alpharius and Omegon - Can't recall any. On the other hand, I'm biased as I seriously detest these two.  Horus (haven't read any of the Horus books I admit so I'll pull the one from Fear to Tread) 1) the very last part where he basically carves Erebus face out and stick it on his armour, stating that the Chaos Gods are not dictating the war, HE IS.  Lion - Sigh, I want to love him but the idiot just keeps digging himself a bigger hole for him and his legion. 1) The Sucker punch aka backstab he dealt to Night Haunter on Tsugalsa asteroid.  Ferrus Manus - haven't read up on him, so can't recall any, sorry.  Sanguinus: 1) Mostly from Fear to Tread. Anyway the one that struck me most was when he had to kill one of his sons who had fallen mad early in the book. He was pleading, trying to piere the haze of madness that had consumed one of his marines. That marine that launched himself madly at his primarch, who merely held the marine with one hand before killing him. Horus witnessed this and later used this info to set up the Signus trap.  In yet another "twist against existing fluff", apparently the black rage was already there long before Sanguinus death to Horus.  Vulkan - strangely enough, I can't remember any before Vulkan lives which I haven't read yet. Ironic as I love Salamanders.  Fulgrim - I'm sure there are many but I haven't read any of his material, sorry. Anyway, I hate the guy even before his fall to chaos.  Perturbo - Haven't read Angel Exterminatus yet. On another note, I agree with another forum poster stating that the Iron Warriors seem to be another misalined chapter, their not Chaosy, but just the product of marginilsation and jealousy, not really worshipping chaos.  Mortarion 1) not much material of him beyond Flight of the Einstein, but I like his moment of commaderie with NAthaniel Garro, sharing that poison drink with Garro and then afterwards subtly testing Garro's loyalty to the legion and emperor.  Phew, that was long. Hope you enjoyed the compilation. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273258-favourite-scene-of-the-heresy-so-far/page/5/#findComment-3453283 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 The previously mentioned "I was there the day Horus slew the Emperor". Â Angron's emergence from the ground and subsequent holding of a Titan's foot. Â Guilliman's pissed-off mode during the duel with Lorgar, at the end of Betrayer. Â The invasion of Prospero and Russ' 'magical howl of browning psyker pants' Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273258-favourite-scene-of-the-heresy-so-far/page/5/#findComment-3453370 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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