What kills Dark Angels

[Landdavi]

Brothers,

 

I am a few games in with 6th edition dark angels.  I've played Grey Knights, Blood Angels and SMs.  The memorable killers were/are BA death company and the storm raven.

 

So then I walked into the store and had an interesting discussion on Helldrakes.   The discussion echoed some comments from this board.  So I found myself wondering how to modify my list.  My concern is that I go to far in one direction.

 

So...   I thought I ask you who have played over 10 games with DA, what were the top 5 DA killers you ran into.  If you haven't yet played 5 games, please comment anyway but maybe with fewer.  There are no doubt many combinations that kill on lists that never show up.  So what is showing upand something we should all consider.  Thanks in advance.

 

For the Lion

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Azrael Turnbull]

No. 1 - Helldrake

No. 2 - Valkyrie/Vendetta

That is all.

 

Just not enough hard counters for those units. You either spend far too many points to ensure they come down or ignore them altogether; which is unacceptable, especially for the Helldrake. For some things, Forge World is our only real solution. For everything else, there's 'Dakka Pole' card.

[Utsujin]

If you play pure ravenwing like I do.. venom spam..  I had bad dice rolls.. so shouldn't be too bad next time.

[Brother dean]

IG Executioners.

[IndigoJack]

Shame ;)

 

But seriously, it really depends on what you're fielding.

 

Bikes? Heldrakes, blastmasters, anything AP3 denying cover, really.

 

Terminators? Small arms fire. I'd say small arms have killed far more of my deathwing than any AP2 weaponry.

 

PA marines? Anything really, even lasguns given enough of them (a blob squad with first rank fire, second rank fire destroy almost anything short a MC).

[Nemo vas Varya]

What kills Dark Angels.... Light Devils.....

 

 

Anyways, yeah plasma and AP3 pie plates hurt like a bitch. The heldrake is just plain obnoxious. Vendettas, eh, if they get spammed, just duck in cover and sit on objectives (if in tourney) if casual game, tell the player where he can stick it.

[deathspectersgt7]

BT humor.

[Artemid]

Bad BT humor.

FTFY

My biggest issue with Deathwing (old 'dex too) has indeed been en masse lasgun fire first, AP2 and mass of CC attacks second. I'm still adjusting to running more Power Armor lists so not sure yet.

[march10k]

What kills deathwing is low model count.  AP3 kills ravenwing.  The absence of mobility kills the battle companies.

[Landdavi]

Well great replies but really no trends yet.  I am a little surprised I didn't see more mention of flyers.  I play RW, so will watch out for cover denying and AP3 ranged weapons.  

 

I also have a hypothesis that we fear gunlines more than other fast armies.  

 

Thanks for the support.  

[Nemo vas Varya]

Well great replies but really no trends yet.  I am a little surprised I didn't see more mention of flyers.  I play RW, so will watch out for cover denying and AP3 ranged weapons.  

 

I also have a hypothesis that we fear gunlines more than other fast armies.  

 

Thanks for the support.  

My Ravenwing laughs at Guard gunlines. (Not so much Tau.... they can negate my dark shroud and murder it....)

 

I outflank melta RAS, and MM ABs. Send black nights and a command squad with mandatory libby+sammy to bulk up count, with Plasma RAS riding flank. Speeders follow behind. If I had turn one, they have all moved up + scout. Then the pain begins as plasma from the BK and Command squad lances out, and the bolters of doom unless hell benefiting from a dakka banner. 

 

Turn 2, more stuff arrives, the BK and Command squad start the crumpin' wit da 'ammers all Ork still, whille the RAS plays a deadly game of ring around the rosey, shooting up tanks and peeps alike.

 

It is artillery, Burna Boyz and Heldrakes that I fear :-p

[Brother-Captain Stacius]

A decent opponent lol! But yes, drakes destroy bikes and massed fire can account for anything else in our forces.

I find the best shout is get into combat ASAP with a combined arms force granting loads of turn 2 charges lol

[Artemid]

What kills deathwing is low model count.  AP3 kills ravenwing.  The absence of mobility kills the battle companies.

 

Low models vs. high volume of saves specifically I think. As far as battle companies, I think it goes like this:

 

If you have the mobility, you're short on bodies. If you have the bodies, you're short on mobility.

[SFCMac]

I agree with what has already been said in this thread. I find that Deathwing heavy armies are more threatened by volume of fire/saves than anything else in my experience. For my Revenwing builds, it has been this as well, combined with Helldrakes. Low model count armies are always at risk to volume of fire. One thing that does work well for me in this regard is a combined arms approach to building a list. While pure lists are neat to build and are very visually appealing on the tabletop, they are tactically difficult to run effectively IMHO.

[Brother Immolator]

My only problem so far has been those infernal noise marines. Yeah the guard executioners and pie plates in general are a problem, but not a DA specific problem, they are a game wide problem.

 

Those noise marines can wipe an entire tables worth of ravenwing though.

[IndigoJack]

Well great replies but really no trends yet.  I am a little surprised I didn't see more mention of flyers.  I play RW, so will watch out for cover denying and AP3 ranged weapons.  

 

I also have a hypothesis that we fear gunlines more than other fast armies.  

 

Thanks for the support.  

 

The thing is, you're not really going to see trends. The things that kill DA are the things that kill all marines. Additionally, things like experience and skill also play into it and these are things that are going to be different from player to player.

[Artemid]

 

Well great replies but really no trends yet.  I am a little surprised I didn't see more mention of flyers.  I play RW, so will watch out for cover denying and AP3 ranged weapons.  

 

I also have a hypothesis that we fear gunlines more than other fast armies.  

 

Thanks for the support.  

 

The thing is, you're not really going to see trends. The things that kill DA are the things that kill all marines. Additionally, things like experience and skill also play into it and these are things that are going to be different from player to player.

 

I'd also say we are seeing trends with what people are reporting. They're just kinda generalized (aside from Helldrake spam, ofc).

[march10k]

  I am a little surprised I didn't see more mention of flyers.

 

Simple.  Fliers are expensive and nonscoring.  The most threatening thing they can do is serve as a transport.  Even against a trio of drakes, incidental fire will bring one or two down.  Meanwhile, they're eating a ton of points, meaning that you're dominating on the ground.  And woe betide them if they come up against something that doesn't fear them, like a horde or TEQs.  Three drakes versus deathwing=over before turn one!

[Azrael Turnbull]

 

  I am a little surprised I didn't see more mention of flyers.

 

Simple.  Fliers are expensive and nonscoring.  The most threatening thing they can do is serve as a transport.  Even against a trio of drakes, incidental fire will bring one or two down.  Meanwhile, they're eating a ton of points, meaning that you're dominating on the ground.  And woe betide them if they come up against something that doesn't fear them, like a horde or TEQs.  Three drakes versus deathwing=over before turn one!

 

 

Hence why only the Helldrake and IG flyers are on my hate list. IG flyers aren't too bad, but 6 strength 4 large templates, 9 str 6 shots and 9 twin-linked str 5 shots is too much saturation for 300 points. That's only a fifth of their army.

 

Helldrakes... Just no. I usually ignroe flyers until everything else is gone, but this abomination can not be allowed to free roam.

[Nasse]

Fire dragons, or what you call those eldar with lance weapons. After my first game playing DA they will forever remain on my deathlist.

[march10k]

Fire dragons, or what you call those eldar with lance weapons. After my first game playing DA they will forever remain on my deathlist.

 

 

Hmmm....you may have something there (fire dragons have meltas, though...), eldar are my nemesis.  I laugh them off the table with IG or sisters, but for some reason, they have my DA's number.  Eldar kill (my) Dark Angels.  Not the emo variety, strangely enough, even though they're far more competitive...I went 1-0-1 against them at the last Ard Boyz regionals that I went to.