Belial, best unit to put him in?

[Cod]

Ok, well I been reading various posts on here about command groups, hq choices etc, and there are snippets of gold about belial in various posts. What I really want is one place to read about him lol.

 

So, if you were going to use Belial in a mixed wing army, how would you arm him, and what unit would you put him in?

 

I was leaning towards the sword bolter combination and placing him with a command unit, but I'm unsure.

 

[Balthamal]

To be honest if you put him anywhere other than with a Deathwing unit he's wasted, since he doesn't provide any buffs to normal marines. Having no scatter on DWA is mighty useful and if you opt to lump him with a full 10 man squad with heavy weapon goodies you have one brutal alpha strike unit

[bluepillredpill]

I've had good results with him in a DW unit deepstriking behind enemy lines whilst other units drop down in front of the enemy within 6" of bikes. Have utilised a mixer of bolter, heavies and CC weapons in his squad

[Cod]

Hmmm ok, thanks.

 

So would you recommend him in a dw command with banner and mix of weapons?

or just a big dwt squad, or dwk squad?

[bluepillredpill]

DWK I believe work best being deployed in a landraider with a int chap in termie armour

 

I personally wouldn't like the idea of dropping my command squad deep into the mix of things

 

IMO a deathwing squad is the best choice, much flexabilty in it, scoring unit and dropping in deep means the chance to rip vehicles open from the rear

[march10k]

I like to put him in an assault terminator squad in a crusader (so...no more than 7 other models in the squad, or 6, if you put the obligatory PFG-equipped techmarine in his track instead of in the DKs'), along side a crusaderload of knights.  They can't stop both, and his telehomer is better than his no-scatter deepstrike, since it works on the entire DWA, not just his own squad.

[tomsev]

i use him in a 10man deathwing termie squad with a tda interrogator chaplain, i dwa them and aim for the enemy warlord... if i go first i very often get firstblood, slay the warlord and an aditional vp for belials trait, the hunt...

and boy do i like hunting...

[Master Avoghai]

I would NEVER use Belial in a command squad when playing a mixwing.

In a mixwing lead by Belial, you'll have few DW units... No more than 2. If one of the 2 is a command squad, you lose a scoring unit.

 

A command squad is interesting when you play pure DW to give a FNP bubble to your termis.

Other than that there's nothing a command squad will do that you cannot do with a tactical.

 

That's also for the same reason I wouldn't DWK in a mixwing lead by Belial.

[Gillyfish]

I would NEVER use Belial in a command squad when playing a mixwing.

In a mixwing lead by Belial, you'll have few DW units... No more than 2. If one of the 2 is a command squad, you lose a scoring unit.

 

A command squad is interesting when you play pure DW to give a FNP bubble to your termis.

Other than that there's nothing a command squad will do that you cannot do with a tactical.

 

That's also for the same reason I wouldn't DWK in a mixwing lead by Belial.

 

Well, command squads can split fire and/or purchase the halberd, so they do have their uses I would argue. Perhaps more so if you aren't taking Belial though.

 

 

 

 

 

[Master Avoghai]

Everybody can split fire.

 

The hallberd is nice but doesn't justify to switch a normal squad into a command squad in a mixwing lead by Belial (a sgt with TH/SS is often enough)

 

If you don't play Belial, it's indeed a different situation...

[march10k]

In a pure DW army with at least four scoring units and a squad of knights, a command squad is nice for the company banner (it's a bubble, now...so run it behind the knights who have a chaplain for smite+rerolls+bonus swing per model=nomnom!!!) plus the halberd...but I'd not take a command squad until I have those other five squads first...so, basically...never?  Nevertheless, I can't resist painting one up!  I have an APO from before, when command squads were scoring, and I've done up a halberdier.  The deathwing company banner is on my painting table, half-finished.  It'll be retrofitted to a thundernator when it's done....although....a squad of lightning claws with the banner...what's that, five attacks each on the charge?

[Master Avoghai]

In a pure DW army with at least four scoring units and a squad of knights, a command squad is nice for the company banner (it's a bubble, now...so run it behind the knights who have a chaplain for smite+rerolls+bonus swing per model=nomnom!!!) plus the halberd...but I'd not take a command squad until I have those other five squads first...so, basically...never?

Re-read what I'm saying : I'm talking about MIXWING lead by Belial.

In a pure DW army, command squads are interesting.

In a Mixwing lead by an interrogator chaplain in TDA, it can be interesting as well.

 

But if you plan to take Belial in an army contains termis, tactical, RWK, WW etc... To me, it's not interesting at all

[march10k]

Agreed.  However, if I'm not running pure DW, I'm not running Belial.  He's the killiest model we have in melee, but points are scarce, and that alone doesn't justify fielding him.  If I'm not running a deathwing list, I'm running Azzy instead.  Mainly because I prefer that my warlords be leaders, not simply the best fighters.  Belial...is not a leader, really.  Of course, any member of the deathwing is qualified to be a company master in any lesser legion chapter, so how much leadership do the deathwing really require?  Hence the lack of leadership-related rules in Belial's codex entry...but if they advance the storyline and he succeeds Azzy, suddenly he'll sprout those leader rules, of course!  It's not that he lacks them, it's that that's not his role at the moment, so they don't bother including them in his profile (and making us pay for them)

 

Anyway, reread what I'm saying:  Unless I'm running pure deathwing, a deathwing command squad is too far down my list of priorities to ever see the tabletop.  A TDA interrogator is much better served by a retinue of knights than a deathwing command squad...combine smite with hatred?  Check!  Give the interrogator T5?  Check.  Better fluff match?  Double Check!

[Sidguard]

I've had decent amounts of success running Belial in a 10 man squad with double heavy flamer. Because you can decide exactly where you DS, you can get a perfect position for toasting marshmallows.