Anyone tried Vanguard Vets as Gunslingers?

[goosey_j]

So we all know VVs are massively overcosted as specialised melee squad. But has anyone tried running them as a Gunslinger harassment squad? I've estimated that a squad of 5 vets with 5 Plasma Pistols, a powerweapon on the sarge, 4 BPs, Jetpacks and Meltabombs comes in at 275 points. With clever use, I can see them being a good harassment unit able to take all comers. Obviously, you don't want them getting charged, so whatever you don't kill in your volley of plasma you charge, and finish off in melee. Your Sergeant will have a power maul, sword or axe as standard, which adds a little bit of extra punch. If you really need more, you can upgrade that to a TH or RB. Also, for added funsies, play Ahazra Redth nearby and buff them with divination powers. 

 

Or, you could ditch the jump packs entirely, and stick a GoI Librarian with them for hit and run tactics.
 

Would it make them worthwhile? I can see a fast moving squad of dual pistol toting marines being a nasty thorn in an opponent's side, especially if you were running them with other high priority targets. Still though, they come in more expensive than Terminators.

[Captain Idaho]

Unfortunately they're just overshadowed by other choices who can do the same job for cheaper or better. Command squads can get plasma guns for half of the points cost of 2 plasma pistols, whilst Stern Guard can get combi weapons for cheaper and have their bolters and special ammunition too. Both units have the ranged advantage.

 

Your only advantage is charging into finish off squads, but that is wholly inefficient without power weapons.

 

Incidentally, gunslingers usually means 2 pistols, and my explanation above was based upon that. Your example referred to a single Plasma pistol on each and a bolt pistol? Which brings down the costs but substantially reduces the firepower and thus hitting power, whilst not boosting the assault potential.

 

Sorry to be negative, I just don't rate Vanguard unless done cheaply. Hopefully someone will prove me wrong in a minute because I want it to work!

[WarriorFish]

Agreed, Vanguard are pretty expensive and whenever a five model squad starts costing more than a Land Raider I think you should ruminate at length as to it's merits before taking it... I think you should keep them cheap and have them hack through squads with their number of attacks. They'll look good doing it and you won't feel as sad when they inevitably get shot up.

Credit where it is due though; anybody trying to make Vanguard not a rubbish choice is doing the Emperor's work, albeit it likely in vain

[Zombie P]

They are great as just a 5 man unit with jump packs, albeit my power weapon attacks always miss, but they bog down much larger units and make a large dent in the simply from the fact that they have 20 attacks on the charge! (dont forget the HoW attacks too ;)) With the plasma pistols, I fear that the Gets Hot! will have too much of a detrimental effect on the effectiveness of the unit. You are almost guaranteed to lose one model a shooting phase. A plasma Command Squad comes in at 175 points, has one less plasma shot, but does have feel no pain. For that amount of plasma shots from the vanguard you need to spend 120 points on plasma pistols, which leaves you at 245 points, that is more than a redeemer! I could give the command squad storm shields for that cost and still have points to spare! And then you still need a delivery system.

 

I love the thought, but it really isnt viable. If I was trying to fill points in a larger game, I would take vanguard, but I would give them useful things like power weapons and lightning claws. 

 

I will admit after my rant (I do apologize) that I find plasma pistols hideously over costed. I would probably have them at 10 points, but 15! Seriously!

 

My thoughts, ZP

[*Furyou Miko]

You're basically suggesting trying to be Seraphim for a significant increase in points. Why not just ally in some Sisters to do that job?

[Giga]

275 pts for 5 power armored dudes who don't even have a transport? Really?

 

If you really want that, 5 sternguard in a drop pod are both cheaper and more reliable. 

[Rohaen]

Along these same lines,  though slightly different, what about a plasma gun and storm shield equipped command squad? Point value would be high, though this would have FNP, 3+ saves always and strong shooty plasma damage. It would be more than Sternguard, though could have more suvivability and could take out some armor and termies.

 

I haven't played with that type of troops in any list, though this thread got me thinking about the possibilities.

[Giga]

Guys, you really don't want to spend that many points on 5 guys with 3+ saves.

 

Command squads have the added disadvantage of being forced to take a subpar HQ to unlock them.

[tvih]

It'd be cool to get the jump pack version lowered to something like 25 points. In a non-optimized list I was thinking of dropping tacticals and sternguard in a pod in turn 1, and with locator beacons in those hopefully land the Vanguard guys safely in charge distance in turn 2 (failed reserve rolls notwithstanding), assuming the enemy doesn't shoot the pods. But considering the 20 marines in their face, you'd assume they would rather shoot at those. But who knows!

 

As far as Gunslingers specifically... two bolt pistols would be cool, but plasma+bolt just is too expensive no matter how you look at it.