Grey Hunters receiving charge - which gun to use on O.watch

[DanPesci]

Hey,

 

random question i couldnt seem to find the clarification to in the BrB, apologies if this has been covered before...

 

If you use rapid fire bolters with grey hunters during overwatch, does this in any way affect them being able to use BP/CCW combination in the subsequent combat?

 

I can't see anywhere that would say it would, but thought it was worth clarifying

 

 

[dswanick]

Nope, no effect.

[eyeslikethunder]

I have had a Few argue that it does recently

 

would.love a well.structured dswanick.counter argument

[Reichfaust]

I have had a Few argue that it does recently

 

Really?! Jeez... Most of the time I can at least understand where the other side of an argument is coming from, but I am stumped as to how anyone could interpret the overwatch rules in this way...

[Rift Blade]

And what rule are your opponents using to say this? I can't remember anything in the BRB that says you can't but I've been wrong before & probably will be agian.(Much to my other half's amusement--oh well, if you can't laugh at yourself who can you?)

[BrotherCaptainArkhan]

I've had this happen to me before, and I bought it at the time (no BRB on hand, didn't want to slow the game down). It's bull. There may have been an argument for it if the Counterattack rule said you counted as charging, but as it simply gives you +1A, there's no penalty to using rapid fire weaponry.

re-read your post and realised you were talking about BP+CCW. My bad. The guy I played argued Counterattack couldn't be used if rapid fire weaponry is employed in Overwatch(which is obviously wrong). There's nothing  Icould find in the BRB to say you can't use BP+CCW on the turn you Overwatch with RF weapons.

[Marshall Bretton]

paraphrasing the rule as i don't have the brb with me but:

 

models that fire weapons with the rapid fire rule may not charge in the subsequent assault phase

 

units containing at least 1 model with the counter attack rule may take a leadership when they are charged by an enemy unit. if passed the unit gains all the benefits of having charged

 

a pistol is counted as a close combat weapon for the purposes of close combat

 

a unit with 2 weapons with the close combat rule gain an extra attack in close combat

 

those are the rules that would be relevant, as i said not the exact wording

[dswanick]

I have had a Few argue that it does recently

 

would.love a well.structured dswanick.counter argument

I would love to offer one, but I really have no idea what argument could be used to justify that position so I really can't offer a counter-. :)

[Forté]

The rule only states you gain the benefits as if you had charged. It says nothing about the limitations. Just saying ;)

[Marshall Bretton]

aye that was my point, there is no restriction, rapid fire only prevents you from charging, nothing about if your are charged

[DanPesci]

Excellent. This is what i thought, but just thought itd be worth double checking (especially as a few folk have said above they've seen people claim otherwise - that claim we dont get counter attack if using rapid fire...oof)

[Marshall Bretton]

yeah fair enough, i would love to know what the argument those people use is, i just can't think of anything that could even cause confusion on this

 

i guess they are claiming that because you are using your bolters in overwatch you have to use them for the entire phase, but there is nothing anywhere in the rules that says that

it would be the same as saying that because you used an assault weapon in the shooting phase you can't use your cc and pistol in the close combat phase

[Wulfebane]

They just want things to make sense with physics and all things fluffy. A person holding a bolter for overwatch suddenly wielding a bolt pistol/ccw for the assault doesn't make sense to them. 

 

If it happens again, advise them to find a game where the laws of nature and science are actually present and go play it instead.

[Forté]

Wrong Wulfebane. They just don't want to be on the receiving end of a Grey Hunter kicking.

[eyeslikethunder]

To be fair he brought it up when he was overwatching he was adamant so i let it go

He was chaos

Something about choosing one weapon in a phase

Which i presume is a misunderstanding of the "more than one weapon" rule

[Marshall Bretton]

yeah there is nothing in the rules about using 1 weapon for the whole phase as far as im aware

[BrotherCaptainArkhan]

Just to clarify something, I've just re-read the Counter-Attack rule and it does not say the counterattacking unit is charging - it simply states 'for the duration of that phase every model in the unit gains +1A'. This is important, as some players might argue that if CA gave you a charge bonus, you couldn't claim it if you rapid fired. Just putting that out there.

[Loki-LaughingDeath]

The arguement that I would use comes from our previous codex where counter attack would get the 2CCW bounus with a bolter but only with a bolter.

[Wulfebane]

The arguement that I would use comes from our previous codex where counter attack would get the 2CCW bounus with a bolter but only with a bolter.

Except it is still the case with the other 3 special weapons too.

[dswanick]

The arguement that I would use comes from our previous codex where counter attack would get the 2CCW bounus with a bolter but only with a bolter.

Fortunately (or unfortunately, depending on your p.o.v) we have a new codex and a new edition of the rules. We no longer have True Grit, so it no longer has any bearing.

[Loki-LaughingDeath]

Well that is the only applicable arguement that presents itself to me.  Other than that I think you would have to do a reality check where you see todays soldier transitioning from battle rifle to pistol in a close quarters engagement, either that or some of the newer techniques developed to keep your weapon in the fight especially at point blank.