Imperial Guard without Vendettas?

[Seahawk]

Lascannons, ugh, way too many points for BS3 models. I much prefer missile launchers for the utility and lower cost. I also don't feel so bad when I move, which is often.

 

Also don't need the las when there's all the other weapons the IG have. 

[WarriorFish]

Sentinels quite like Lascannons, my Armoured Sentinels tend to stalk the rear elements of my lines picking off enemy targets. A bit too expensive for infantry though, even for Heavy Weapon Squads who won't be moving. 3 Lascannons with Officers barking at them usually attracts unwanted attention quickly too.

I think one shot weapons belong in packs for the Guard, so the utility of the Missile Launcher in HWS can be useful, otherwise it's all multiple shot cheaper weaponry for me. My Heavy Bolter squad reliably punishes any infantry squad in their sights and Mortars are in every list

[Bolter Witch]

You mentioned having trouble with popping the rhinos and such. Have you considered an Exterminator (add Pask for  extra nasty)?

[Centurio]

The problem with popping rhinos was due to my bad rolling and that alone. I had plenty of chances, I just blew every die roll. The only rhino that was wrecked was fired on by 3 twin-linked lascannons from the sabre platforms... with the rerolls and high S, even I couldn't mess that one up.

[minigun762]

Lascannons, ugh, way too many points for BS3 models. I much prefer missile launchers for the utility and lower cost. I also don't feel so bad when I move, which is often.

 

Also don't need the las when there's all the other weapons the IG have. 

I don't mind them on IG because you have enough of them that laws of averages start to work in your favor.

[SevenExxes]

If you're worried about flyers you needn't be too concerned. Auto cannon heavy weapon squads being given the order "Bring it down!" have a decent chance of taking out flyers.

You could also take Marbo and an ADL and if your opponent has a flyer heavy list have Marbo pop up behind the ADL on the quad gun with his BS5 hitting on 2's with rerolls. Especially since you're running so much plasma you won't be relying on Marbo's demo charge to take out Power Armour.

[Steel Company]

Another option for dealing with flyers, if you are well and truly worried about them, is the humble Hydra flak tank, for 225 points you can get three of them, in one HS choice. that's 12 S7 AP 4 twin-linked Sky-fire shots.... Against AV 12, that should be 8 hits, 1 glance and one pen per shooting phase, as you go down in AV, they number of glances and Pen's jump up considerably.

[Centurio]

I was actually asking about vendettas as in their overall effectiveness for the army, not just anti-air.  I haven't fought flyers yet but I will have a quad gun and 3 Sabre Defense Platforms (twin linked lascannons).  Do you think that will be effective anti-air?

[Steel Company]

It should work, I mean unless everything goes perfectly for the guy with the air-craft, you should only see them for 3 maybe 4 turns, if he is really lucky with his rolls, and placement, they might get 5 turns out of them, but that is unlikely.

 

On top of that, only a few of the craft are really top tier choices, the Storm-Chicken (Storm Raven), Vendetta (Valk to a lesser degree), Hell-drake, and I think the Necron units. Out of all of them, only the Vendetta and I think it's the Night Scythe that could be seen in numbers larger than 3.

 

I think for most lists, with the exclusion of a few air-cav lists, you'll do fine with that amount of AA. Air-Cav is not the most common list to see, that's due mostly to the cost of building the army, as well as it being a very risky army to use, just build for all comers, have a few AA units, but don't go overboard, and you'll be fine.

[Centurio]

I also thought of taking the Officer of the Fleet if I could fit him in, to maybe stagger the arrival of the flyers if they roll low.

[Steel Company]

Officer of the fleet, if you ask me, isn't a bad way to spend 30 points, if anything he's an ablative wound for the CCS. Some armies can be hurt by having him, and others they have ways to get around him, so either way, not a bad place to send the points if you have them left over.

[Centurio]

OK I played a couple more games.

 

For these games, I used 3 scout sentinels with autocannons instead of the 2 armored sentinels. Otherwise my list was the same.

 

First game was against CSM:

 

Typhus

3 hordes of zombies

close combat oriented terminator squad with mark of Nurgle.

LAND RAIDER SPARTAN

7 nurgle bikers

2 Obliterators

2 Obliterators

Helldrake

 

 

When I looked at this army, I thought I was through.... I assumed the bikers would make it across and kill a lot, the Spartan would deliver its terminators and I would be swept from the board with Typhus and the zombies mopping up the remnants.

 

 

On top of that we rolled a kill point mission.

 

I lost the roll and he chose to let me take the first turn.

 

I set up my aegis 6" forward of my deployment zone. I deployed the sabres so they could scout into it. Then I deployed my infantry platoons behind them so they could run into the position. I reserved my 3 executioners, Marbo, and 3 sentinels (outflank).

 

I did not blob my infantry, because I didn't have a commissar to make them stubborn, and I felt that he was going to beat me in kill points no matter what and my only hope was to table him.

 

First turn I ran my infantry into position. Sabres fire on the Spartan with no effect. I shot at the zombies. He moved his stuff forward in general, including the Spartan. The bikes moved forward through some ruins but passed all their dangerous terrain/armor saves.

 

Turn 2 I got 2 Executioners, Marbo, and a couple of sentinels on from reserve. Marbo tossed a demo charge onto the bikers but only kills 1 when he makes an incredible number of cover saves. At this point I was feeling pretty hopeless, but then I fired the 2 Executioners at the bikers. They each fired 5 plasma blasts and killed every single biker! I also moved some squads forward to rapid fire zombies and provide a juicy target for his terminators. the sabres took a hull point off the Spartan.

 

His turn 2 he only got 1 squad of oblits on from reserve, thanks in part to the Officer of the Fleet. They deep struck into a crazy spot behind my tanks and deviated off the board, rolling death on the mishap table. He was really desperate to kill the tanks after what they did to his bikers. (My primary army was Deathwing so I deep strike a lot and when he placed them I told him it was crazy to drop them there). The Spartan moved forward and the terminators, joined by Typhus, charge an infantry squad, butchering them to the last man. The Spartan also fired at one of my tanks and destroyed it with its 4 twin linked lascannon shots (!!!). My infantry squads that moved forward are being swarmed by zombies but delaying them. Marbo goes down to a swarm of zombies (but delayed them a lot because they had to chase him and move into ruins.)

 

My turn 3, I get my other sentinel and executioner onto the board. Now a whole bunch of lasguns and the 2 executioners fire at the terminators/Typhus and manage to kill everything except for 2 of the terminators. Zombies are eating my forward troops and moving towards my lines. His turn, the The Hell drake came on and took 1 wound from the quad and sabres. The 2 terminators then assault and destroy the sabres. The Spartan shoots at my tanks but fails to do anything. The zombies move forward. The other oblits were not on yet.

 

At this point it was becoming impossible for me to win by kill points. Over the next two turns I lost several more infantry squads and his other oblits deep struck into a far away location, just in lascannon range of my tanks. I killed most of his zombies, finished off the terminators, and the Hell Drake had left the board... plus my AA was all dead. To save time I conceded on turn 5. I could have probably glanced the spartan to death by turn 6 IF I rolled decently. But that would occupy all the weapons I had that could kill the oblits from that far away. Plus I had the Helldrake to kill with no AA.

 

 

 

 

Second Game:

 

I fought Imperial guard in an objectives mission. His Guard were mech vets with a couple of Russ variants, a basilisk, and a vendetta with veterans. We rolled 4 objectives and of course 2 were set up on each side. I also ended up going first in this game. Long story short, I sent my 3 executioners forward with a platoon behind them, using the tanks as cover. I did a lot of damage but he stopped the advance. This did keep him from moving anything across to my side because the tanks were inflicting severe punishment and making him go to ground every round. His basilisk was unkillable, sucking up lascannon shots and 5-10 plasma blasts per round, and even survived a rear attack by my outflanking sentinels. The basilisk inflicted heavy damage on my infantry that were on the objectives but he didn't quite kill enough. I blew his vendetta out of the sky. With my attack stopped and him not capable of advancing, I won by First Blood.

 

 

 

 

 

 

/

[Steel Company]

Congratulations!

 

Glad to hear things went well the second game, do you have any idea how you might tweak your list any?

[Centurio]

I'm going to replace the scout sentinels with a Devil Dog, and try Pask in a Vanquisher in place of one Executioner.  This should give me more anti-armor capability.  The Devil Dog can move 12" and fire 2 melta shots with the melta rule out to 12" for a threat range of 24".  In this edition ANY part of the blast does full damage.  It can also kill terminators and infantry pretty well out to a 36" threat range.  The Vanquisher will help deal with Land Raiders and things like the Spartan that are immune to the melta rule.

 

Plus I will add a commissar so I can feasibly blob if necessary.

 

I did buy one Vendetta, but I am still working on painting the interior details and haven't even glued anything together yet.

[Steel Company]

The few times I've run Pask in the Vanquisher, he's never let me down, though pricey, but nothing like the 72" reach out and a tank with S8 AP 2 2D6 armour pen! with +1 from crack shot!

Should make short work of that basilisk if you ever face it again too.

On a side note, with the LR-EXQ (executioners), I find them a little over rated now, since they can glance them selves to death when running Plasma cannon's through the Gets HOT! rule...

The few times I run Russ' these are the order that I like to run them:

LR-EXT (Exterminator) <-- Best bang for Lite to medium weight tanks, and lite to medium infantry killing, can even swat at air-craft if loaded down right.

LR-BT (battle Tank) <-- Best all rounder

LR-VNQ (Vanquisher) <-- When armour just has to die

LR-ERD (Eradicator) <-- Best for forces that use a lot of cover

LR-DMO (Demolisher) <-- For center board control

LR-EXQ (Executioner) <-- second only to the Demolisher for board control and fire magnet!

LR-PNR (Punisher) <-- Over costed for what it does, yes I know heavy 20, of that 10 should hit, MEQ, 6 wounds, and 2 dead on average.... hell Even Orks get a save against this thing!

Those are my thoughts on the tanks, having used and been on the receiving end of them on more than one occasion.

[Centurio]

I'm not scared of gets hot. Its a 1 in 6 chance per turn. And the payoff is putting 5 plasma blasts on the target! I was getting 12, 13, even 14 hits.... It is a bit of overkill to have 3 so I'm going to swap one out for Pask. I think it will be a decent combo.

[FashaTheDog]

I currently own no flyers for any army and have gotten by without them thus far.  I do want to add some Cyclon Raiders to my Necrons and maybe a Hellblade to my Chaos, but those are far off for now as I have other purchases I want to make first.  While I prefer my Krieg, my pickup Codex Guard list does well overall and it is not optimized and has never seen a Valkyrie or Vendetta.  Actually, my Codex list does better than my Krieg.  Here is what I typically run.

 

Company Command - Officer w/ Bolt Pistol, Regimental Standard

 

5 Ogryns

 

Platoon A

Command - Grenade Launcher, Autocannon

Infantry - Plasma Gun, Lascannon

Infantry - Plasma Gun, Lascannon

Infantry - Plasma Gun, Lascannon

Heavy - 3 Lascannons

Heavy - 3 Missile Launchers

 

Platoon B

Command - Officer w/ Power Sword, 2 Grenade Launchers, Missile Launcher

Infantry - Meltagun, Commissar

Infantry - Meltagun

Heavy - 3 Heavy Bolters

Heavy - 3 Mortars

 

Platoon C

Command - Officer w/ Power Sword, Platoon Standard, 2 Meltaguns

Infantry - Sgt w/ Power Sword, Flamer, Commissar w/ Power Sword

Infantry - Sgt w/ Power Sword, Flamer

Infantry - Sgt w/ Bolt Pistol, Grenade Launcher

 

Platoon D

Command - Officer w/ Plasma Pistol, Platoon Standard, 2 Plasma Guns

Infantry - Plasma Gun

Infantry - Sgt w/ Bolt Pistol, Meltagun

Heavy - 3 Lascannons

 

Vets - Grenadiers, 8 Shotguns, Mortar

 

Vets - Sgt w/ Shotgun, 3 Snipers, Mortar

 

A few notes here.  This army is WYSIWYG and so some choices, such as the sniper Vet's sergeant having a shotgun or the platoon standards, are because those are the models I have.  The Ogryns are taken for the sole purpose of allowing me to use my Forgeworld event Ogryn Berserker, no other reason whatsoever, although they are decent enough in their own right.  The Grenadier Vets are a squad of Krieg Engineers and are taken for looks more than use.  All told that leaves me with 345 points I could better spend in the platoons, but I lack the models for now.  Ideally, if models were not an issue, I might run:

 

Company Command - Regimental Standard

 

Platoon A

Command - Officer w/ Power Sword, 3 Meltaguns

Infantry - Plasma Gun, Lascannon

 

Infantry - Plasma Gun, Lascannon

Infantry - Plasma Gun, Lascannon

Heavy - 3 Lascannons

Heavy - 3 Missile Launchers

 

Platoon B

Command - Officer w/ Power Sword, 2 Grenade Launchers, Missile Launcher

Infantry - Meltagun, Commissar

Infantry - Meltagun

Infantry - Meltagun

Heavy - 3 Heavy Bolters

Heavy - 3 Mortars

 

Platoon C

Command - 3 Flamers, Heavy Flamer

Infantry - Sgt w/ Power Sword, Flamer, Commissar w/ Power Sword

Infantry - Sgt w/ Power Sword, Flamer

Infantry - Sgt w/ Power Sword, Flamer

 

Platoon D

Command - Officer w/ Plasma Pistol, 4 Plasma Guns

Infantry - Plasma Gun, Lascannon

Infantry - Plasma Gun, Lascannon

Infantry - Meltagun

Heavy - 3 Lascannons

Heavy - 3 Lascannons

 

Vets - Forward Sentries, Sgt w/ Shotgun, 3 Snipers, Mortar

[Centurio]

Nice list.  I would like to go infantry heavy, but I am enjoying the tanks right now.  I have another platoon assembled but not painted, so it will be a bit before I can go full infantry.

 

We have a tournament this weekend at my local gaming store.  Though I am tempted to take my Dark Angels, I think I will try using my Guard as I've had good luck with them lately.  

 

I finished airbrushing my Devil Dog last night and it just needs detail work.  I will be assembling my Vanquisher with Pask later this week so it will most likely just be basecoated for the tournament. 

 

BTW, does anyone else think the Pask model is horrible?  I bought him but then returned him to the store without opening the blister, because he looked so bad.  You can get 3 Imperial Guard Tank Commanders for the same price, and one of them looks perfect to represent Pask, so thats what I'm using.

 

Here's the list I'm going to try:

 

 

 

Company HQ, Bodyguard, Officer of the fleet.

Infantry platoon, Platoon HQ + 3 squads with missile launcher and meltagun, 3 sabre defense platforms


Infantry platoon, Platoon HQ, 3 squads with flamer and autocannon, 1 Commissar in a squad.


Devil Dog with a hull multimelta


2 LR Executioners with plasma sponsons and lascannons.

 

 

1 LR Vanquisher with lascannon, no sponsons, camo net, and Pask


Marbo


Aegis defense line with quad gun

 

 

 

//I will be fine tuning the points here and there so there may be a few changes//

[Steel Company]

The only thing I'd change, and this is me, I'd swap the Devil Dog for a Bane wolf with hull melta, but that's me, I love duality. And nothing beats a Bane Wolf for killing MEQ's in the guard anyways.

[Centurio]

I like the Bane Wolf too, but I already have 10 plasma blasts per turn to shoot marines. I just wanted something to fry vehicles.  Also, the Bane Wolf has no range for its template IIRC, so it has to make it further across the board.  I'm afraid it would become a priority target when they realized what it could do.  Whereas the Hellhound and Devil Dog have a 24"+ threat range and can more easily come from a place thats out of LOS.  It could make a good unit to deal with deep strikers or units that make it to my side though.  I didn't glue the end of the gun on so I can switch them out and try the different types.

[Steel Company]

And you have good points about it, when I have run them in the past, I used the fact that it shares the rough shape with two other versions, to confuse the guy I was playing, and had the thing cost him a lot when he assumed it was a Hell hound. I lost it the next turn, but he had lost a SM command squad, and Libby to it by then!

[Centurio]

Nobody around here has used a Hell Hound or variant as long as I can remember.  It's not a Vendetta or Chimera with mechvets inside so it has not been used :) .  So I know that if I put it on the table I would be asked what it does...

[Steel Company]

Very true. I make it a point to never lie to those that I play, but if they don't ask what it does, I don't feel the need to explain it to them before hand.

[minigun762]

Remember that an Executioners main weapon does not get hot.

[Steel Company]

That's why was talking about the Plasma cannons not the Executioner cannon.

I just worry that in the next codex, they'll give it Gets HOT!