Making Deathwing Work in 6th?

[march10k]

 

 

A minor quibble - it's worth noting that, even though 6e Belial costs more, you can still simulate 4e Belial by getting a company master in terminator armor (albeit his power sword isn't MC, and you'll need to pay extra if you want to give him different weapon options).

Not mastercrafted?  If only that were the biggest difference.  Fleshbane.  The Sword of Silence wounds even wraithlords on 2+!

 

Hm... that's funny... I don't remember Belial having that ability on his sword back in 4th edition.

Anyhow, I'm not saying that Belial isn't worth the cost, I'm saying that because of his cost we can afford fewer bodies in pure DW.

Ah...I missed the "4e"  bit.  Countervaling against the fact that his increased cost, even setting aside that he's much much better, which theoretically pushes two whole termies out of the list, is that you can now buy termies on an individual basis, and can have more per squad.

 

 

The deathwing assault reserve...problem.... has been adressed (and correctly IMHO) in the recent adepticon FAQ. Now thats a semi official rulling but I expect it to become official come next betta te....Excuse me errata.

 

Pray, do tell...?  Given my current location, I didn't get to go this year.

[Brother Immolator]

Hmm... The subject of this topic is "Making Deathwing work in 6th?" – not: "Are DW termies better now than they were?". .

Whether they are better now or not has no relevance here as as always we can only use what we have now anyway.

Cheers

I

Fair point Isiah!

Actually, bad point Isiah

We are talking about the workings of terminators in 6th, and in order to understand how something works now you have to spot the differences between the former and later incarnation. Case in point the power weapon nerf, which has been added to the units cost.

Also brother Artemid: They didnt get better? Asside from the fact that they gained: Split fire, enlarged squads, access to plasma cannons, nerf to everything thats not a power axe, better deathwing assault, access to banners AND kept their weapon suffling gimmics and fearless. No my friend their cost is quite appropriate. All these bonuses and you only get to actually pay for two things: The power weapon nerf and the THs, which lets face were too good as long as they lasted, but we knew it will happen. And we dont even need them now but thats beside the disscussion here.

The fact is that if you compare them to other terminator units out there it becomes more obvious ours are not expensive for what we get to do with them.

EDIT: Sorry March10k just read your post here : http://www.adepticon.org/wpfiles/2013/40KAddendum.pdf

Have fun using a terminator libby and belial in a 10 man term squad with gate of infinity. Deepstrike and twinlink every round without scatter.

[march10k]

 

Have fun using a terminator libby and belial in a 10 man term squad with gate of infinity. Deepstrike and twinlink every round without scatter.

 

 

 

That does sound fun...but that's a frightful number of points spent on...ten twinlinked stormbolters and a pair of twinlinked [insert weapon here]!  Among other things, it's ten powerfists, a force staff, and the sword of silence, all paid for with the hope and expectation that they'll never be used. 

 

Thanks for the link!

[Isiah]

Hmm... The subject of this topic is "Making Deathwing work in 6th?" – not: "Are DW termies better now than they were?". .

Whether they are better now or not has no relevance here as as always we can only use what we have now anyway.

Cheers

I

Fair point Isiah!

Actually, bad point Isiah

We are talking about the workings of terminators in 6th, and in order to understand how something works now you have to spot the differences between the former and later incarnation. Case in point the power weapon nerf, which has been added to the units cost.

No you've not convinced me . But I respect your point of view.

Anyway, the issue is still the power weapon now not the power weapon then. Any newcomer to the DW or indeed 40K will be fresh into it with no past baggage – that is the issue – so they need advice on the current state of affairs.

Otherwise old heads like mine get confused .

[Brother Immolator]

 

 

Have fun using a terminator libby and belial in a 10 man term squad with gate of infinity. Deepstrike and twinlink every round without scatter.

 

 

That does sound fun...but that's a frightful number of points spent on...ten twinlinked stormbolters and a pair of twinlinked [insert weapon here]!  Among other things, it's ten powerfists, a force staff, and the sword of silence, all paid for with the hope and expectation that they'll never be used. 

 

Thanks for the link

 

Never been used? If you mean the chance of them to be lost in the warp, that is negated too.

Its a points sink but a funny one at that and in two rounds can wipe out a 40 man guard blob.

 

Had I not been Ill I would have put it to the test today.

 

EDIT: Gives a reason to our sargeant for having the bunny ears.

 

EDIT2: Sorry for forgeting to adress this Isiah

Actually my train of thought derived from the opinion exchange between Artemid and me a few posts back. I can explain it further if you wish in a PM. Best not load the thread any more.

[Artemid]

Also brother Artemid: They didnt get better? Asside from the fact that they gained: Split fire, enlarged squads, access to plasma cannons, nerf to everything thats not a power axe, better deathwing assault, access to banners AND kept their weapon suffling gimmics and fearless. No my friend their cost is quite appropriate. All these bonuses and you only get to actually pay for two things: The power weapon nerf and the THs, which lets face were too good as long as they lasted, but we knew it will happen. And we dont even need them now but thats beside the disscussion here.

 

The fact is that if you compare them to other terminator units out there it becomes more obvious ours are not expensive for what we get to do with them.

 

Not that they didn't get better at all, just that I'm not yet convinced the point increase was proportional with how much better they got. For example, say that got 20% more expensive - I'm just wondering if maybe they should have only gotten 10% or 15% more expensive because they're only 10% or 15% better now.

 

Like: banners are expensive. As they should be. But you shouldn't factor that in to the base cost of a squad, IMO. Hammers really should be 5 points a model. ACs needed to come down, the CML probably should have gone up.

 

I'm ready to be convinced I'm wrong. Twin-linked heavy weapons on DS? Awesome. But I've YET to be at all impressed by the storm bolter fire a term squad puts out, so I feel like I'm only ever actually getting benefit for the squad's one heavy weapon (because I haven't found a list with a 10 man squad I actually like aside from dropping them with Belial in a gunline list). I'm also still very on the fence about the AC over the CML, though the new points costs do help.

 

It's also just that when you take the extra costs, and look at what were traditional backline options - the Typhoon, the dakkapred - and see those have gone up too (and probably should have also, the Typhoons were kind of criminally cheap in particular), you can probably get the same number of Termie models out on the board, but it feels like that's it and I'm just not yet sold that they're better enough to get away with it. :)

[Brother Immolator]

You are viewing this from the same perspective that some people are viewing Azrael, just because they are loaded with goods they must use all of them.

Nop, never was like that never will it be. Think of those extras just as that, extras.

You wont depend on twinlinked stormbolters and certainly you wont design a list around them. Its a bonus we get for a turn to softer up the opposition and thats it. It will give us some openings, most people are scared of it and consider it broken. While this is far from the truth the psychological factor itself is golden.