Hmm, if half the tau broadside rumors are true...

[Warsmith Aznable]

random roll decides something . according to people from DT it is the thing that is most awesome about w40k.

 

A random roll deciding everything isn't what's awesome about 40k, that's reductionist. The "fun" that people talk about from randomness is GW's attempt to provide unexpected situations that should keep the game from being won or lost in just the list building stage.

 

There's a global pool of highly competitive players that's always going to quickly figure out the most optimal way to play a game, and increased randomness is almost inevitable from a company that wants to sell all of their models, not just the very best ones.

 

That still doesn't explain Warp Talons, but I think this is where GW is come from anyway.

[hornywingythingy]

^psychological advantage? I know me and my mates always had jokes about being the first one to kill a model, no real bonus in tactical terms, but then again, gws rules can be 'abstract' (being polite) at times.

[Cmdr Shepard]

^psychological advantage? I know me and my mates always had jokes about being the first one to kill a model, no real bonus in tactical terms, but then again, gws rules can be 'abstract' (being polite) at times.

 

Possible but sometimes is the exact contrary, you willing sacrifice one of your resources to get a tactical advantage.

Honestly Slay the Warlord and even line breaker make much more sense...

[the jeske]

well you forgetting the important . what does it do ? well it kills razorbuilds and what did we have last edition? razorbuilds. edition changes are made to kill the most popular builds . Rhinos and razors will be back in force in 7th ed.

[Cmdr Shepard]

well you forgetting the important . what does it do ? well it kills razorbuilds and what did we have last edition? razorbuilds. edition changes are made to kill the most popular builds . Rhinos and razors will be back in force in 7th ed.

 

So you think it's the designers' way to limit the proliferation of MSU razorback lists...intriguing.

[the jeske]

3ed rhino rush . 4th dead rhino . 5th mecha spam . 6th hull points and firstblood kill av 11 based builds.

 

3ed AC suck . 4th rending is king . 5th rending nerf kills AC using models . TH/SS the one to rule them all. 6th welcome to the world of divination AA weapons.

 

 

3ed star cannons . star cannons everywhere . 4th nerf of starcannon .

[Cmdr Shepard]

3ed rhino rush . 4th dead rhino . 5th mecha spam . 6th hull points and firstblood kill av 11 based builds.

 

3ed AC suck . 4th rending is king . 5th rending nerf kills AC using models . TH/SS the one to rule them all. 6th welcome to the world of divination AA weapons.

 

 

3ed star cannons . star cannons everywhere . 4th nerf of starcannon . 6th ed Rise of the ultra star cannon in the new eldar dex

 

Ultra star cannon? Have we already reliable rumors on new Eldar Codex?

[Trevak Dal]

I've seen some scanned codex pages for the Tau book...and as a Tau player I'm happy beyond words.  Everything I wanted for Tau are in it, and everything that I didn't (stupid Space Dwarfs on Trikes) isn't.  Compared to...well, Mr. Kelly's uh..."Efforts" here, I'm very, very, very very very pleased with what I'll be getting Saturday.

 

They essentially got the exact same treatment We did, but they got so much better stuff than...Mauler Fiends, Warp Smiths and *spits* Cultists.  I'm just...so very, inexplicably happy about it.

[Cmdr Shepard]

I've seen some scanned codex pages for the Tau book...and as a Tau player I'm happy beyond words.  Everything I wanted for Tau are in it, and everything that I didn't (stupid Space Dwarfs on Trikes) isn't.  Compared to...well, Mr. Kelly's uh..."Efforts" here, I'm very, very, very very very pleased with what I'll be getting Saturday.

 

They essentially got the exact same treatment We did, but they got so much better stuff than...Mauler Fiends, Warp Smiths and *spits* Cultists.  I'm just...so very, inexplicably happy about it.

 

Good news, then ;)

I'm gald we are finally getting an interesting Codex. Perhaps it will allow us to "correct" some CSM issue by addind them as allies... we shall see on Saturday, which is getting very close ;)

[totgeboren]

I had a 1750 pts game vs Mechdar the other day, and fielded a pretty odd CSM army.

 

Flying DP with the Khorne Daemonweapon.

10 CSM with 2xplasma in Rhino

10 CSM with 2xmelta in Rhino

5 Spawn

10 Raptors with 2xmelta and Khorne Icon (to get a 12" move and 2D6" reroll move in the assault).

Plaguebearer Herald

11 Plaguebearers

20 Flesh Hounds.

 

I deployed everything as far forward as possible, with the hounds behind my lines. Then I used the scout redeployment to move the hounds in front of everything. I also kept the Plague Bearers is reserve as the champ got the template lesser power and the Herald a nice shooty power. Thought I might get some nice rear shots by deep striking.

 

Anyway, first turn I just moved forward as fast as possible really. The Eldar player then shot down 12 of the 20 Hounds, and did some slight damage to the rest of the army.

In my turn two, I had the Prince assaulting, the Raptors assaulting, the Spawn assaulting, the hounds assaulting and the marines within range to use their special weapons.

After this it was more or less over. Eldrad and friends were killed by the Daemon Prince. All his most useful vehicles were destroyed, and so the rest of the battle was mostly just mopping up the remains. I didn't lose a single unit.

 

Had he killed my Prince on turn one (which Tau could possibly have done), it would have been a more even fight, but the speed of almost everything in the list just gave him a single shooting phase before I was in close combat with stuff he had pressed against his table edge. I wonder if Tau would be able to deal with an army like that? Just spamming really fast stuff and hoping for the best?

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I think the Tau would have had no problems with your army.  Their weapons are much longer ranged than Eldar weapons are, and their infantry small arms are also stronger.  Plus, they have the ultimate equalizer in the markerlight, which can increase BS or reduce cover saves, so you can't even call on the advantage of terrain or the disadvantage of the Tau's average BS.

 

Against a Tau army, you are under fire from infantry weapons before you even get out of your own deployment zone, not to mention their heavy stuff.  Outflank, Infiltrate, and Deep Strike are going to be our friends against the Tau because they are the most reliable way to get close quickly.

[minigun762]

I think the Tau would have had no problems with your army.  Their weapons are much longer ranged than Eldar weapons are, and their infantry small arms are also stronger.  Plus, they have the ultimate equalizer in the markerlight, which can increase BS or reduce cover saves, so you can't even call on the advantage of terrain or the disadvantage of the Tau's average BS.

 

Against a Tau army, you are under fire from infantry weapons before you even get out of your own deployment zone, not to mention their heavy stuff.  Outflank, Infiltrate, and Deep Strike are going to be our friends against the Tau because they are the most reliable way to get close quickly.

The flip side is that they're even weaker in assault, you only need a few bodies to get through to be enough to wipe their squads out.

[totgeboren]

I think the Tau would have had no problems with your army.  Their weapons are much longer ranged than Eldar weapons are, and their infantry small arms are also stronger.  Plus, they have the ultimate equalizer in the markerlight, which can increase BS or reduce cover saves, so you can't even call on the advantage of terrain or the disadvantage of the Tau's average BS.

 

Against a Tau army, you are under fire from infantry weapons before you even get out of your own deployment zone, not to mention their heavy stuff.  Outflank, Infiltrate, and Deep Strike are going to be our friends against the Tau because they are the most reliable way to get close quickly.

 

Well, during his first shooting phase, he unloaded on me with all his shuriken catapults... range 12"-18". Extra range would not have helped him one tiny bit, as my army was so fast that I was in his face turn one. Beasts with Scout (Fleshhounds) are incredibly fast, and force your opponent to concentrate a lot of firepower on them, allowing your precious marines with their nifty high-tech guns a turn or two of free reign.

Also, when it comes to killing basic infantry an unguided Dire Avenger is just as good as a Firewarrior within 12", and Guide gives the same buff (mathematically) as +1 BS to the Firewarrior from the markerlight.

And yes, guided Dire Avengers hurt light infantry like crazy, but not enough to stop a horde of Hounds and Spawn.

 

And as minigun762 points out, you need even less to make it into close combat with the Tau to win the fight.

[Iron Sage]

 

I think the Tau would have had no problems with your army.  Their weapons are much longer ranged than Eldar weapons are, and their infantry small arms are also stronger.  Plus, they have the ultimate equalizer in the markerlight, which can increase BS or reduce cover saves, so you can't even call on the advantage of terrain or the disadvantage of the Tau's average BS.

 

Against a Tau army, you are under fire from infantry weapons before you even get out of your own deployment zone, not to mention their heavy stuff.  Outflank, Infiltrate, and Deep Strike are going to be our friends against the Tau because they are the most reliable way to get close quickly.

The flip side is that they're even weaker in assault, you only need a few bodies to get through to be enough to wipe their squads out.

Note: I have only read the leaks from Naftkas blog and the Fang so my knowledge is inferior until I have actually read the entire dex.

 

However, I can`t help thinking that Daemons will do quite ok against the Gundamns and their canibalistic Jarjarbinks allies.

 

They also seems to have an inbuilt weakness (despite their large template weapons) against Terminators I reckon. Spawns, bikes and Raptors might do well against them as well. Seems as they have excellent AA though, albeit our dragon is still fairly tough.

 

Anyway, lets wait and see (those of us that have not have the oppurtunity to read a proper full leak anyway) before we start pulling at our hair ;)

[Smurfalypse]

With the Broadsides dropping down to str8 our multi wound models will be far more safe and in far less danger of getting one shot. Daemon Princes, Obliterators, Characters on bikes and Mutilators are all better against them than they were before. From what I have read so far it all sounds very balanced, much like the previous three 6th edition codexes. 

 

Just my opinion.

[Iron Sage]

With the Broadsides dropping down to str8 our multi wound models will be far more safe and in far less danger of getting one shot. Daemon Princes, Obliterators, Characters on bikes and Mutilators are all better against them than they were before. From what I have read so far it all sounds very balanced, much like the previous three 6th edition codexes. 

 

Just my opinion.

Agreed. 

[the jeske]

tau suits move faster and tau shot more then eldar . they will also work better against FMC as they wont be grounding them on +6 , but on normal BS . They can also run they own buffor units [kroot] or take meq ally .

[Xenith]

They get skyfire, but not interceptor.

 

You still have 2 turns of shooting to take them out.

[the jeske]

They get skyfire, but not interceptor.

 

You still have 2 turns of shooting to take them out.

are we talking in general or against the listed army , because the listed army has 0 long range unit and I doubt the DP is in deep strike.

the real thing about them is the saturation you can get by taking 4-6. One also has to remember the tau warlord traits which help with skyfire too , now I know people will say that str5 can only glance av12 , but when your doing it with 30 shots from a single unit even 3HP models are in trouble.

[Smurfalypse]

 

They get skyfire, but not interceptor.

 

You still have 2 turns of shooting to take them out.

are we talking in general or against the listed army , because the listed army has 0 long range unit and I doubt the DP is in deep strike.

the real thing about them is the saturation you can get by taking 4-6. One also has to remember the tau warlord traits which help with skyfire too , now I know people will say that str5 can only glance av12 , but when your doing it with 30 shots from a single unit even 3HP models are in trouble.

 

Remember all the griping about the stuff from the DA Codex as it was about to release? People need to stop overreacting to this stuff and give it a second.

[Cmdr Shepard]

 

However, I can`t help thinking that Daemons will do quite ok against the Gundamns and their canibalistic Jarjarbinks allies.

Daemons? Their troop choices can be easily decimated by Tau ranged fire, a part from shrouded plague bearers (even though Tau will negate their cover with marklights), their FMC can be easily groundedm with skyfire broadsides  and killed with massed fire power by other unis; nearly every daemon is mostly a cc unit and when they decide to charge Tau gun line they'll suffer volleys of overwatch fire; not to mention I just read rumors about the ability of fire warriors to make a consolidate movement after overwatch so can place themselves outside charge range leaving those daemons in the open field; their vehicles are easy prey for Tau weapons.

 

Talking about FMCs: I don't think it's a good idea bringing a CSM Daemon Prince to a fight versus Tau. Once they ground it they can kill it with a single hammer head railgun shot. It only has a 5++ invul.

[Ammonius]

 

 

They get skyfire, but not interceptor.

 

You still have 2 turns of shooting to take them out.

are we talking in general or against the listed army , because the listed army has 0 long range unit and I doubt the DP is in deep strike.

the real thing about them is the saturation you can get by taking 4-6. One also has to remember the tau warlord traits which help with skyfire too , now I know people will say that str5 can only glance av12 , but when your doing it with 30 shots from a single unit even 3HP models are in trouble.

 

Remember all the griping about the stuff from the DA Codex as it was about to release? People need to stop overreacting to this stuff and give it a second.

I agree. As the local active Tau players are getting more and more excited, I have begun to just smile and say "Good for you!" and take notes.

[Tenebris]

All in all I always welcome a new codex since I am eager to read the new lore but so far the Tau, at least from rumors, seem to be a balanced and shooting army. I have an answer to that with my brand of ranged army, the Imperial Guard, and its tons of bodies until I learn how the Tau play and I become more confident with my chaos army. 

 

I think that fast and melee units are the answer to a gunline and save that, ordnance in the tons. Yet the Tau are also mobile so every bit of speed or deep strike is welcome. I think that now bikes will come even more preeminent in the chaos lists as well as our other fast options in the form of Maulerfiends and Spawn. 

 

If there is a thing that really angers me is that MoN is now almost mandatory on every unit and I cannot stress enough that is this fact alone that makes the CSM codex stale in many cases.

 

Indeed the other marks are fun but a player with results and tournaments in mind is nowdays quite limited in his choices. I hope that my noise marines will be up to the task but I think I will have to force dinobots in many of my lists. 

[the jeske]

 

 

They get skyfire, but not interceptor.

 

You still have 2 turns of shooting to take them out.

are we talking in general or against the listed army , because the listed army has 0 long range unit and I doubt the DP is in deep strike.

the real thing about them is the saturation you can get by taking 4-6. One also has to remember the tau warlord traits which help with skyfire too , now I know people will say that str5 can only glance av12 , but when your doing it with 30 shots from a single unit even 3HP models are in trouble.

 

Remember all the griping about the stuff from the DA Codex as it was about to release? People need to stop overreacting to this stuff and give it a second.

Well I always said that the DA dex will be good and it is good . Same with tau and eldar. Eldar of course more , but that hardly aint something unexpacted.

[Brother Ambroz]

 

However, I can`t help thinking that Daemons will do quite ok against the Gundamns and their canibalistic Jarjarbinks allies.

Daemons? Their troop choices can be easily decimated by Tau ranged fire, a part from shrouded plague bearers (even though Tau will negate their cover with marklights), their FMC can be easily groundedm with skyfire broadsides  and killed with massed fire power by other unis; nearly every daemon is mostly a cc unit and when they decide to charge Tau gun line they'll suffer volleys of overwatch fire; not to mention I just read rumors about the ability of fire warriors to make a consolidate movement after overwatch so can place themselves outside charge range leaving those daemons in the open field; their vehicles are easy prey for Tau weapons.

 

Talking about FMCs: I don't think it's a good idea bringing a CSM Daemon Prince to a fight versus Tau. Once they ground it they can kill it with a single hammer head railgun shot. It only has a 5++ invul.

Aside from the overwatch volleys, Daemons have some decent options to take on Tau I think. Take alot of cheap and fast choices, Flesh hounds, daemonettes, seekers, etc and overwhelm them.