Hmm, if half the tau broadside rumors are true...

[Tenebris]

Well CSM might not be as powerful as the new armies but it is the codex I have decided to play trough this edition and I intend stick with it and probably add some Daemons allies too. The other armies have plenty of new toys while CSM got only few of them but we should make it trough the battlefields of the 41st Millenium alive and victorious. So I call upon all of you who will fight Tau in the next days to report your battlefield actions and impressions. The more information we get the better we can fight them.

 

In my gameclub alone more than ten Tau battleforces have been ordered and seven codexes ordered too. I expect to fight these alien communists in the club tournament in May so all info is more than welcome. 

[Bonzi]

This forum is a swirling vortex of whining and doom crying.

[the jeske]

have you played chaos in 3ed or in the 5th ?

[Cmdr Shepard]

In my gameclub alone more than ten Tau battleforces have been ordered and seven codexes ordered too. I expect to fight these alien communists in the club tournament in May so all info is more than welcome.

Oh no... please do not bring the "comunism argument" here. I live in Italy like you and honestly I'm a little tired to listen/read someone is defining their opponent "comunists" ;)

Maybe our international friends don't know it but there is a little man in Italy who says it nearly every day on every Television and id he read this he may start to talk about the "comunist aliens conspirancy once more

So for the sake of whatever principle/entity you believe in let's not bring such arguments (and the related attitudes) to our beloved hobby... thank you...

Beside I'm not even sure Tau can be defined comunists by modern standard. They may be a sort of collective but they don't share the ideology we define comunism.

Back on topic (I apologise with mods if went off topic ;) ) I believe one of the most significant threats to flyers (and in our case to heldrake) could come from the skyray.

It possesses "native" access to skyfire rule and can fire two marklights which, contrary to any other marklight, can be used by the firing model itself.

So a stationary skyray can fire 2 marklights (at BS4) then unleash a barrage of seeker missiles.

It has a limited number of missiles, even though 6 of them are not few, and it can also skyfire marklights for other units.

Remeber marklight increase BS even of snapshots. So two marklights on a flyer mean BS 3 for every unit shooting at the target!

[Tenebris]

Well it is nice to see another italian on the forum. Slave!

 

Indeed, I agree on many points but I have always defined the Tau as such, it is a running joke, though I will abstain form its use in the future.  

 

The Tau will be as for now great in the AA section, a thing that might force the twin helldrake builds to be reconsidered but I don't like to put all my hopes on a single model, can't help, it is the Imperial Guard mentality. I still stand behind my idea of deep strike terminators as a good Tau counter, but more important imo is how to mitigate dangers of the proliferation of armor saturation lists that will be the norm with all the suits, tanks and fliers a Tau play can have. Any ideas?

 

 

Jeske: 

 

I cannot say that I have but from the looks of the old codexes the chaos lists were much varied until the 5th in which by common consent it was Lash Prince, Plague Marines and Obliterator spam. I especially lament the loss of Legion Traits like Basilisks for the Iron Warriors, Sirens and Drugs for the Noise Marines and so on. But the 6th still allows us to have some variety and legion specific theme if you take the proper allies. 

 

Now with half a year of chaos codex and its new brothers it seems that the old adagio "First Codex of a new Edition = Bad Codex" rings of some truth but this will not prevent me from playing it. I can lament that the authors were much more creative in the other codexes but be as it may be it is still a good codex though as one on this forum said, it lacks direction.

 

Now this is not the place nor the time to discuss about the codex for the topic is another but I will open a topic where we can. 

[Cmdr Shepard]

Well it is nice to see another italian on the forum. Slave!

Indeed, I agree on many points but I have always defined the Tau as such, it is a running joke, though I will abstain form its use in the future.

The Tau will be as for now great in the AA section, a thing that might force the twin helldrake builds to be reconsidered but I don't like to put all my hopes on a single model, can't help, it is the Imperial Guard mentality. I still stand behind my idea of deep strike terminators as a good Tau counter, but more important imo is how to mitigate dangers of the proliferation of armor saturation lists that will be the norm with all the suits, tanks and fliers a Tau play can have. Any ideas?

Don't worry, Brother... I was just posting a joke ;)

Now for the "slave" part I'll have arrange some duel and show you who is the true Warlord... .... another joke.

By the way it's always a pleasure to meet another player from my country: we are few on thse forum.

If I'm not mistaken you are even making "reserches" on Slaaneshi warbands, if I'm remeber the post I read in the Slaanesh forum. Well personally I always found the "GW official" vision of Slaaneshi warbands lacking in charisma (it's a very long and old story) so some interpretation/reserch on the matter could be interesting.

I know it's another matter for another topic so I'll go back to original topic ;)

The nice aspect of new Tau is that they can fill many roles. It is very useful when we use them as allies. We have build an army and it has a weekness: add a couple of Tau allies to fill that gap and the army is ready.

[the jeske]

I can lament that the authors were much more creative in the other

codexes but be as it may be it is still a good codex though as one on

this forum said, it lacks direction.

my problem with the dex author is that he isnt JJ or gav , he did a very nice[awesome in 5th] SW dex a great dark eldar dex and an awesome eldar codex , making chaos csm [i was with the first people back in leak of gav dex time , saying that it will end up with a monobuild] the way they made it was too rushed . One could do 2 or 3 changes to the codex and one would still have a 6th ed codex[not a GK 5th ed style of a dex] which wouldnt get stale after less then a year . The demon dex , flawed as it maybe [specialy pre FAQ] , is more flexible then the csm dex and has more problem spots then then our dex.

[A D-B]

Yes, but even there codex's cover art shows more effort put in then ours (No offense to the artist, but when the art has already been used.)

 

That's one way of looking at it. But that piece of artwork apparently inspired the new direction for codex covers, because as far as I know, Raymond Swanland now does every Codex cover. It looks like a case of HQ liking it so much that they used it on the Chaos Codex, and are hiring him for all of the others.

 

Which plays out on a smaller scale, too. I liked that cover so much I begged the managers of BL to give Ray Swanland to me for my Black Legion series. And they did, bless 'em. 

[Tenebris]

Great news, I love his style of art. Very in line with the grimdark 40k but at the same time it has this modernity and hi tech flavor to it that only digital art can have. I can't wait for more art of his. He outclassed many other artists with his Dark Angels cover, a superb piece of art but even the Gorgons are nice.

 

Now lets get back on topic, shall we?

 

The Tau, how to kill them? Baseball bats, power spoons, macaroni barrage or chocolate virus, what kills the blueskins? If there wouldn't be those flamers of theirs I might even suggests squads of twenty csm, who knows, maybe 60 power armored boots on board would account for something...

[the jeske]

flyer ignoring swarm or a tau ignoring drake build . neither list is optimal and too much match up based. When one adds stuff like possible dual FoC or ally any thought of consisten builds can be thrown out of the window.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

 

Yes, but even there codex's cover art shows more effort put in then ours (No offense to the artist, but when the art has already been used.)

 

That's one way of looking at it. But that piece of artwork apparently inspired the new direction for codex covers, because as far as I know, Raymond Swanland now does every Codex cover. It looks like a case of HQ liking it so much that they used it on the Chaos Codex, and are hiring him for all of the others.

 

Which plays out on a smaller scale, too. I liked that cover so much I begged the managers of BL to give Ray Swanland to me for my Black Legion series. And they did, bless 'em. 

To be honest, I do like the cover art as well, it is a really nice style, yet it just seems lazy of them to have not bothered to get original artwork for the codex cover, especially when you take in the price.

How do people think non hell drake builds will fare against tau?

[Warsmith Aznable]

I have no problem with the new CSM cover or book itself, outside of it being $50.

 

I like the new codexes, as far as physical presentation is concerned. The old codex designs with the artwork bounded under a logo wasn't all that appealing. The full artwork design is much more striking. That so far the designs have focused on a single figure rather than a larger scene is a nice break from the previous edition. The older covers were busy and a bit cartoonish, but the new covers have the looming figure that conveys a menacing presence.

[Ammonius]

I have no problem with the new CSM cover or book itself, outside of it being $50.

 

I like the new codexes, as far as physical presentation is concerned. The old codex designs with the artwork bounded under a logo wasn't all that appealing. The full artwork design is much more striking. That so far the designs have focused on a single figure rather than a larger scene is a nice break from the previous edition. The older covers were busy and a bit cartoonish, but the new covers have the looming figure that conveys a menacing presence.

Yeah, I like how we get to pay an extra 50 cents (USD) for the CSM codex. Gouge away :)

 

OT: I think that knowing which way to go against any given Tau army will depend greatly on which of two subsystems they take: Skyfire or Interceptor. That will determine how well outflanking/deepstriking will go vs. Heldrakes.

 

Personally, I think that Huron+Cultists will give the rest of your army the best chance to get into range. Also, Tau can (often) be pinned, which eliminates overwatch, so Blastmasters, Hades Autocannon, Allied barrage weapons have a place. Also, Dirge Casters.

[zyl-]

Eh, a game with the tau always works out about the same way for me. Turn 1 and 2 I get demolished, but after that, they just get swept away. Since the drakes aren't coming until turn 2, I think the skyfire will already be threatened by mele to the point at which they may get 1 turn of tries to bring down a flier that has an INV save. I actually doubt we will have to change an "all comer" list by much to deal with them, as they are so terrible in mele that it's not at all unreasonable for 5 marines to down 20 fire warriors. Of course a list tailored to kill specifically marines will likely win, but they also have to think, "what if i'm against nids or orks or deathwing?" In much the same way, we can use 1K sons to build a terrible anti meq list, but it falls short against other armies. If anything, I think the kind of options the tau are getting would be more of a game changer for IG.

[Urauloth]

 

Yes, but even there codex's cover art shows more effort put in then ours (No offense to the artist, but when the art has already been used.)

 

That's one way of looking at it. But that piece of artwork apparently inspired the new direction for codex covers, because as far as I know, Raymond Swanland now does every Codex cover. It looks like a case of HQ liking it so much that they used it on the Chaos Codex, and are hiring him for all of the others.

 

Which plays out on a smaller scale, too. I liked that cover so much I begged the managers of BL to give Ray Swanland to me for my Black Legion series. And they did, bless 'em. 

 

This is the best possible direction for codex covers to go, imo. It'll be really great visual link if every 6E cover has Swanland art, too, his stuff is very distinctive and it'll give 40k a consistant aesthetic.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I really like his style, too. Clean, modern, not cartoony at all (totally unlike that ridiculously bad Blood Angel cover).

[minigun762]

I feel as is the conversation is starting to drift away. If we're done talking about the blue Xeno scum then its time to put the thread to sleep.

[Brother Ambroz]

Has anyone had any games against them yet?

[Warsmith Aznable]

I'll be playing a 1250 or 1500 game against them later this week. I am sure to face a Riptide as I was there when he purchased it. Am I a bad person for thinking about Force Weapon delivery?

[Brother Ambroz]

What kind of options do we have for taking those down? Basically they seem a bit like a tougher ranged version of a NDK. So force weapons (if you can get close enough), black mace possibly, plasma, PM poisoned attacks.....anything else?

[Warsmith Aznable]

Khorne has supplied me with an Eight Point Plan:

 

1. Have Huron Infiltrate some weapon teams in to disrupt his backfield.

2. Field something Scary Looking to draw his heavy fire away from our troops.

3. Have those troops move as fast as they can into assault range.

4. Screen scoring units with non-scoring units.

5. Consolidate victorious CSM onto objectives.

6. Ask him if he wants to keep playing with only a Riptide left on the field.

7. Decorate our armour with their worthless blue hides.

8. Be back on the battleship in time for tea.

[hornywingythingy]

Plasma may be your best bet for offing the riptide, given it can boost its invul to a 3++, and has a 2+.

[Hellrender]

The Ultramariens sub forum also has a thread about the Xenos scum.

 

The general consensus is to eliminate markerlights (path finders), get into melee with fire warriors and Broadsides.

However, the riptide is nto really known yet. Some say that you need so much fire or melee power to shut him down, that it mgiht be better to just shut down everything else instead. With T6, TEQ and some other nifty abilities (nova and drones) that thing is though, and it aint going to die fast. If you have something cheap to tarpit it, it might work that way. However i do think (as the guy in the UM forum) that dedicating huge amounts of resources to killing the Riptide is wrong. better to kill everythign else first.

 

¨But yeh, i guess Huron, Terminators, Daemon allies etc will all work nicely against them.

[Cmdr Shepard]

Khorne has supplied me with an Eight Point Plan:

 

1. Have Huron Infiltrate some weapon teams in to disrupt his backfield.

 

You will have to put them at more than 18" in line of sight or 12" outside line of sight (which may not be easy). If you have first turn you may even be able to criticaly damage, or destroy, one of their units but in the next turn they will annihilate the infiltrating unit. If you go with cheap/suicide units they will likely lack the firepower needed to deal serious damage.

Also consider they have the one of the best infiltrating unit in the game. A unit with a de facto permanent cover of 3+/2+

So it would be like shooting at Storm shield TDAs.

It seems the heldrake wouldn't become a bad choice. There are very few units who can take both skyfire and interceptor, so 2/3 heldrakes may clear objective from fire warriors before Broadsides, Skyrays bring them down. However if your opponent knews you are bringing flyers he can create anti-flyer Crisis death stars. Farsight bomb can be equiped for interceptor/skyfire roles, if I'm not mistaken. They will lose a weapon system ot do it so it will be deadly against flyers but less useful against anything else.

 

Concentrating fire on marklights may be a good idea, even though nearly every unit can take 2 marklight drones. Ignore cover+ Riptide Ion accelarator can kill an entire unit in a single turn.

 

There is also another combo to fear: Loyalists+Tau. If Farsight joins a SM TDA unit they didn't scatter when they deep strike. Now we would have two options: 1. Concentrate  on the TDA who will likely charge our lines next turn; leaving the rest of the Tau army to shoot us as it please them or 2. Concetrate efforts on the Tau army leaving the TDA able to slaughter our units. Needless to say a wise player will choose the weakest spot in our lines to deep strike that unit.

 

Just for the sake of curiosity I should try this combo and see if it is so dreadful as it seems. I have been one of the first to think about this potential tactic so I should field test it and see if, and how, it will hurt each army... well not every of them since I don't play to make so many playtests.. unless the combo would be truly effective ;)

 

Perhaps our CSM armies should start to think about a way to use those "Xenos slaves" for their own purposes... A Lord on Juggernaut could find some ranged support quite useful... ;)

Anyway If I found som anti-Xenos tactic I'll let you know... Tau Codex is still quite young, after all.

[Ammonius]

I had a game against Tau last night. 1500 points, no Riptide, no flyers (either side). He had 2 Broadsides and one Devilfish.

The standout was a full-size sniper team with max sniper drones with an HQ that allows an extra shot when rapid firing. Since the sniper rifles are rapid fire, at 24" I was seeing tons of precision/rending shots at BS5 (drone controllers). There would have been pinning tests too, except what was getting shot was Chaos Spawn and Plague Marines. However, he did snipe out my Lord from the PM squad because his precision shots were rending, and I failed enough invul saves due to weight of fire.

 

The silver medal went to his other HQ, which was a Suit that was attached to an 8-strong drone squad. He deepstruck into my backfield, surrounded by frisbees (half of which were shield drones) and killed 7 CSMs in the first volley, and then jetted 8" further away from them.

 

So, I am finally going to assemble and field that Heldrake that has been in a box for months, and probably get another one next week. Also, I may try a land raider as an AV14 fire magnet.