Ethrion Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 One thing that stood out for me when combining the two codices was if you took daemons as the secondary detachment and took a herald of Tzeentch at ML2 or 3 you could have him nearby to your blocks of rubric marines casting the re-roll misses and the force enemy to re-roll successful cover saves onto the Thousand Sons from the discipline of divination.Equally, if your daemons were the primary detachment you could have more heralds of Tzeentch and be able to cast the same stuff onto two squads of allied rubrics.Another thing I noticed was because pink horrors don't all shoot; just the one closest manifests the power. You could have a unit of 20 hidden or out of range with only one popped up visible and in range. He does the casting and if anyone shoots back because he is the only one visible and/or in range only he can die. As soon as he does the next one steps up and takes over as caster. It's not ridiculous just a nasty little thing you can do with them. Anyone else seen any funky combos that can be done between codices? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narse Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 Well.... Pink Horrors in a Bastion aren't much of a handicap. They score so you can walk them outside the Bastion turn 6 and claim a nearby objective. Secondly, putting 1-2-3-4 additional Heralds in that squad is rather nice. Base 16 man Pink Horror squad Herald level 2 for Rerolling of misses, and Tzeentch daemon shooting attack + add +1 strength to shooting attack for any squad he is in That comes to 239, and equates to 6d6 (rerolled misses and 2d6 are at BS4), S6, 24 inch shooting attacks. Now for an additional Herald 45 points you add 2d6 more shooting attacks... so for another 90, your upto 10d6 S6 shooting attacks for 329 points. I was thinking Oblit's and a herald of nurgle manning the gun atop the bastion. They can't be in the same squad, but the herald has a 2+ cover save and T5 with 2 wounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuggnuggath Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 Unfortunately you can only have one unit of Thousand sons as allies in a Daemon army, as they can only be made troops in the primary detachment. Though one big mob of 20 re-rolling misses would be pretty scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narse Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 Unfortunately you can only have one unit of Thousand sons as allies in a Daemon army, as they can only be made troops in the primary detachment. Though one big mob of 20 re-rolling misses would be pretty scary. 2 if you take a Sorc.... If they are big enough... I was thinking 1000 points of CSM's as the detachment and 750 as the primary demon ally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethrion Posted March 31, 2013 Author Share Posted March 31, 2013 Yeah a sorcerer of Tzeentch would make Thousand Sons troops and then you can take two squads; and lets be honest 2 large units of re-roll misses/re-roll successful cover saves is going to be more than enough heheh That comes to 239, and equates to 6d6 (rerolled misses and 2d6 are at BS4), S6, 24 inch shooting attacks. Now for an additional Herald 45 points you add 2d6 more shootingattacks... so for another 90, your upto 10d6 S6 shooting attacks for329 points. By the way, that is obscene! wow :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iskender Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Sorcerers of Tzeentch only make Thousand Sons troops in a primary detachment, not an allied detachment. there are similar rules for Berzerkers, Plague Marines, Noise Marines, Deathwing, and Ravenwing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethrion Posted March 31, 2013 Author Share Posted March 31, 2013 Sorcerers of Tzeentch only make Thousand Sons troops in a primary detachment, not an allied detachment. there are similar rules for Berzerkers, Plague Marines, Noise Marines, Deathwing, and Ravenwing. Ohhh...quite right, quite right my bad. Well still who really needs more than one squad of 20 re-rolling haha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narse Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Sorcerers of Tzeentch only make Thousand Sons troops in a primary detachment, not an allied detachment. there are similar rules for Berzerkers, Plague Marines, Noise Marines, Deathwing, and Ravenwing. Foiled again.... The big problem I face when I bring Thousand Sons Marines are lists that have nothing to shoot at, such as Necrons and Imperial Guard. the best thing to do if I cared about winning, for my Bastion (Tower) of Tzeentch Pink Horror strategy would be to take Fabius Bile for the Allied Deatchment HQ. This would give you a cheap 20 man fearless scoring unit that you could run at the enemy with. The i'd toss in a squad of terminators, a few oblit's to man the top of the Bastion and a helldrake. That way you would have 2 good armor save units to move across the battlefield with and have less chances of the daemon table hurting your marines, but still giving them fearless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zyrtchen Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 20 Chaos space marines with MoT, plasma/melta, fearless icon. Herald of tzeentch Lvl3 with Divination, with 16 horrors. Forewarning on the 20 CSM : get 3+ invulnerable save. You're welcome ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narse Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 Well.... Pink Horrors in a Bastion aren't much of a handicap. They score so you can walk them outside the Bastion turn 6 and claim a nearby objective. Secondly, putting 1-2-3-4 additional Heralds in that squad is rather nice. Base 16 man Pink Horror squad Herald level 2 for Rerolling of misses, and Tzeentch daemon shooting attack + add +1 strength to shooting attack for any squad he is in That comes to 239, and equates to 6d6 (rerolled misses and 2d6 are at BS4), S6, 24 inch shooting attacks. Now for an additional Herald 45 points you add 2d6 more shooting attacks... so for another 90, your upto 10d6 S6 shooting attacks for 329 points. I was thinking Oblit's and a herald of nurgle manning the gun atop the bastion. They can't be in the same squad, but the herald has a 2+ cover save and T5 with 2 wounds. I saw this on another thread but, as a champion is a character. all those 4d6 shots can be precision shots. So.... those 10D6 shots are all percise shots... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godhead Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 2 heralds of tzeentch mastery level 3 on disk. attached to a squad of screamers. 10 CSM bikers plus biker Sorcerer MOT. roll for the 4+ invuln power, now my ccw/bp t5 bikers who may have FNP assault like mad. Its a super fun unit....support it with either the screamers (I prefer to keep mine as buff bots) or from friendly neighborhood FMC (my lord of change) :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Goderic Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 God you use a variation on something I've started using, Biomancy Sor on disc (I give mine the scrolls for craziness) with an 8 man bike squad with MoT, supported by either screamers with a lvl 3 herald on disc or just with a minimum squad of horrors, last game I had a FNP 3+/+ biker unit, by the dark gods what fun that was. The amount of fun from that combo makes up for the slight unreliability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Has anyone considered using possessed or warp talons with the mark of tzeentch alongside the grimore of true names? on a 3+ those units would have a 2++ save, making them slightly more effective. Throw in fate weaver to reroll the dice roll and you got a very nice tar pit (assuming you can roll a 3+ with a reroll :D ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenEngineer Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 IIRC, the Mark of Tzeentch states that it will only ever bump an Invuln save up to a 3++. So sadly enough, I don't think it can make 2++ save Marine Daemons. Sorry. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 ah, that makes sense, haven't read the mark of tzeentch too recently :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebris Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Well a 4++ is a tarpit unit only for power weapons units, basic hordes, marines and eldar are more than capable to force enough wounds to outfight an unit that relies on its ++ save to win the day. On the other side the better ++ save is a great thing when you fight units that rely on numerous power weapons which easily mitigate the 3+ armor save. So far which seem to be the best daemon units of Tzeentch to take with a Tsons army? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godhead Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 Yeap, against a horde an elite unit probably isn't the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethrion Posted May 8, 2013 Author Share Posted May 8, 2013 Well a 4++ is a tarpit unit only for power weapons units, basic hordes, marines and eldar are more than capable to force enough wounds to outfight an unit that relies on its ++ save to win the day. On the other side the better ++ save is a great thing when you fight units that rely on numerous power weapons which easily mitigate the 3+ armor save. So far which seem to be the best daemon units of Tzeentch to take with a Tsons army? Currently I'm enjoying a mix of screamers, flamers and pink horrors as allies. It looks great having sorcerers everywhere and daemons scurrying all over the place. Plus with the addition of divination from a herald of Tzeentch and the scrolls of Magnus on your sorcerer lord you're getting tons and tons of psychic abilities. So many it actually gets a little overwhelming! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souba Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 i also have found some uses for my tzeentch daemons within the army. most of them work on all types of daemons/csm. the biggest one however is: i allied a tzeentch herald and some horros. the herald gets a exhalted gift wich i discard for a artefact : grimoire of true names. now thanks to this i found a use for my multilator models. i play a unit of multilators and give them veterans and a mark of tzeentch... for now it does not look so appealing... however, thanks to the grimoire of true names i am able to increase the invulnerable save of "allied models with the daemon special rule" within a unit by 2 if i roll a 3+... so that grants me 2+ invulnerable multiators. those guys have been shredding so much currently its not even funny. note that this also applies to obliterators, all daemon engines and of course : warpclaws, wich become really heavy hitting, jumping around with a 3+/2+ invul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narse Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 i also have found some uses for my tzeentch daemons within the army. most of them work on all types of daemons/csm. the biggest one however is: i allied a tzeentch herald and some horros. the herald gets a exhalted gift wich i discard for a artefact : grimoire of true names. now thanks to this i found a use for my multilator models. i play a unit of multilators and give them veterans and a mark of tzeentch... for now it does not look so appealing... however, thanks to the grimoire of true names i am able to increase the invulnerable save of "allied models with the daemon special rule" within a unit by 2 if i roll a 3+... so that grants me 2+ invulnerable multiators. those guys have been shredding so much currently its not even funny. note that this also applies to obliterators, all daemon engines and of course : warpclaws, wich become really heavy hitting, jumping around with a 3+/2+ invul Technically the Tzeentch mark states it can't make an inv save better then 3+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elithren Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 Following order of operations, it's not the Tzeentch mark that is making them have a 2++, it's the grimore. They start the game with 4++, mark dropping the 5++ to 4++. It's then further modified to 2++ by the grimore. Nothing about it going against the mark limitation as it's already been applied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenEngineer Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Following the same order of operations, a static effect of the MoT is that it won't work if it would give the model better than a 3++. So once the Grimoire is applied, the MoT stops functioning as the limiting factor (the strength of the save) prevents it from functioning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethrion Posted May 30, 2013 Author Share Posted May 30, 2013 Yeah, basically it doesn't matter what the grimoire has the ability to do as long as it states that a model with the mark of Tzeentch can never benefit from an invulnerable save better than 3++ then that's the best it can be buffed to.Personally I think it's dissappointed that GW saw fit to put a limiter on our invulnerable saves, it would have been a nice combo to try and pull off and befitting of a legion of hard to stop automatons. Afterall a 2+/2++ on obliterators would have been deadly but still it would have failed saves eventually! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godhead Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 Going to try out a csm dp with the black mace and enough heralds to give him a 4++ from forewarning and the bonus from the grimoire. Now you can still mess a squad from the safety of a challenge with a potential for 2++ 're rollable save Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethrion Posted June 9, 2013 Author Share Posted June 9, 2013 Going to try out a csm dp with the black mace and enough heralds to give him a 4++ from forewarning and the bonus from the grimoire. Now you can still mess a squad from the safety of a challenge with a potential for 2++ 're rollable save Oh that's sneaky! So you don't give the prince the mark of tzeentch which then allows you to drop below the 3++ hard deck...that's nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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