Soooo....Tau?

[elmo]

I'm just waiting for the codex (ordered) before I comment as rumours are rife.....

 

On a personal note though - 2 of my armies with new releases and shiney models in 4 months is killing my wallet!

[Interrogator Stobz]

Purge one then...BLAMMO!!!

 

Done

;)

[elmo]

Don't test my loyalties Stobz......

Sufficient to say my DA painting will slow a little

But the HH squad is next on the to do list!

Sorry

[Interrogator Stobz]

You know I'm only kidding, those little blue fishsacks are only trying to make their way in an unfriendly galaxy. Who are we to interfere with their 'goodness'......

...... BLAMMO!!!; consider them interfered with .

Please pass on any and all information gleaned from the new codex that will enable swifter annihilation of the foul xenos.

:D

stobz

[march10k]

 

 

 

I also don't think the Cadre Fireblade will be so easy to get rid of with Snipers as you suggest. Rumors put him with three wounds and he is an IC, so he can use LoS! On a 2+ roll, meaning Precision Shots can be passed on to normal FWs around him.

 

 

Yes, I've heard. Kills men by the hundreds, and if he were here he'd consume the English Dark Angels with fireballs from his eyes and bolts of lightning from his ass. 

 

C'mon, man.  Those aren't rumors...those are wet dreams. 

 

Dont be so quick to discard them, I usually dont give a rats behind for rumours, but that one is not unbelievable. Ever faught one of their saswhatevers fully kited out? 3+, inv and 3 wounds...And he is a tau sergeant for the emperors shake....

 

Um...yeah, that's a leader suit.  More like a Colonel, fluff-wise...unless you mean the Shas'O (even tougher, but expensive!), he's more like a Lord General.  Fought em?  Yep.  Fought with em?  Yep.  They die just like a 54 point fireknife, only with one bonus wound.  So still instagibbed by krak missiles.

[Brother Immolator]

 

 

 

 

I also don't think the Cadre Fireblade will be so easy to get rid of with Snipers as you suggest. Rumors put him with three wounds and he is an IC, so he can use LoS! On a 2+ roll, meaning Precision Shots can be passed on to normal FWs around him.

 

 

Yes, I've heard. Kills men by the hundreds, and if he were here he'd consume the English Dark Angels with fireballs from his eyes and bolts of lightning from his ass. 

 

C'mon, man.  Those aren't rumors...those are wet dreams. 

 

Dont be so quick to discard them, I usually dont give a rats behind for rumours, but that one is not unbelievable. Ever faught one of their saswhatevers fully kited out? 3+, inv and 3 wounds...And he is a tau sergeant for the emperors shake....

 

Um...yeah, that's a leader suit.  More like a Colonel, fluff-wise...unless you mean the Shas'O (even tougher, but expensive!), he's more like a Lord General.  Fought em?  Yep.  Fought with em?  Yep.  They die just like a 54 point fireknife, only with one bonus wound.  So still instagibbed by krak missiles.

 

Your devastators can fire Krak missiles and choose their targets in squads?

Dont bother to answer I am kidding the way you responded, it reads like: 'NO, mine is bigger and better too. Stamps foot on the ground and looks the other way in contempt :D

 

In all seriusness I had two games with the brats tie a chaplain for three rounds.

[Onisuzume]

Your devastators can fire Krak missiles and choose their targets in squads?

Don't need to.

They come with 3 per squad at most, iirc.

Assuming you inflict at least 3 wounds, they all pop.

Page 15 of the BRB (Wound allocation and remove casualties) states that the nearest model takes the first wound, which would insta-kill the battlesuit. So regardless of it being a character or not (LoS), they'd all go pop, just the order in which they pop differs.

[Vash]

Why even bother bashing a codex that isnt even out yet? 

Saying you aint afraid of anything the Tau can toss out is pretty darn brave atm. Sure the Tau as they are now are far behind. But so was the Dark Angels. 

 

We can sit here and say, "If they bring a suit, I will have this to counter, and if they bring that I will have this etc"- But I ask you... do you always tailor your army list against your opponent you face? Is that how you play in tournaments? Changing army lists when you know who will face?

 

The best way to get some understanding of what the opposing codex can bring is to actually try to make an army your self. Looking at individual units in a vacuum is always easy to break down and laugh about. 

 

I my self play Grey Knights and Dark Angels mostly atm. And I for one think the new Tau codex can bring some serious pain with new set of rules and units. Look at Dark Angels, we got a serious buff thanks to new rules never seen before and new units. 

 

Riptide, the giant mech, have the same statline as a Grey Knight dreadknight. On its own, a dreadknight doesnt really shine. But with right kind of supporting units/target priority diversions, it can do some serious damage. When I have used mine, I have found that the most damage come from shooting with his heavy incinerator. Close combat he is a beast, but should target characters, monstrous creatures and the like. Normal infantry units is a waste really... to many models to fight with to few attacks. 

So, the riptide who focuses on shooting, will probably out shoot the dread knight, and that is one thing I will fear. Saying, I will send in a hand full of terminators to deal with him... well you still need to get passed massed fire of plasma and Ion weapons, supporting units. He wont be alone!

 

The New Tau flyer. Well a Flyer is a flyer. It will probably be specialised in either attacking infantry or hunting medium armour from the looks of it. It wont be a OP Vendetta, as that aircraft is not really designed for 6th ed. If we dont have anything to counter the flyer, it will do its job, but I doubt it will kill everything it passes when it enters. Its still a flyer, who will arrive in turn 2 or forward, fly off one or two turns later. Cannot grab objectives, cannot deny, etc. 

 

New broadside and battle suits. I dont think we can expect them to be identical to what they are today in the current codex. They will get new rules, new point values. As they are today, yes we can handle them with ease. But it all comes down to how you play really. 

 

Fire warriors will be cheaper. If its enough we need to wait and see. I for one fear S5 shots. My bikes upper hand is canceled out by basic troops. For one DA bike they get 3 fire warriors. Now we cant compare in a vacuum... but at range the Fire warriors are more worth their points. But the bike does get mobility, toughness and twin-linked. 

 

Ah well I could go on. But I think you get my point. To really get an understanding of the new Tau, we actually need a Tau player to defend them and explain what they can do. On saturday I will have the codex downloaded for the iPad. So I'll be looking into what they can and can't do. 

[Brother Immolator]

 

Your devastators can fire Krak missiles and choose their targets in squads?

Don't need to.

They come with 3 per squad at most, iirc.

Assuming you inflict at least 3 wounds, they all pop.

Page 15 of the BRB (Wound allocation and remove casualties) states that the nearest model takes the first wound, which would insta-kill the battlesuit. So regardless of it being a character or not (LoS), they'd all go pop, just the order in which they pop differs.

 

Well good using them to instakill  3+  models and the squad leader. I think luck is gonna be needed unless you have rigged dice.

I myself prefer more solid results to praying and will be arming my devs a bit more heavily, after all I dont want to spend an entire game rolling to destroy 3-4 suits. There is are entire armies out there and I am bound to face some AV14 at some point.

So if you are a bit on the list tailoring/meta side and know for certain that no AV14 or terminators are gonna ruin your day, then by all means stick to the missiles.

 

And you need LoS to at least one of their models which trust me you wont have due to jetpacks. Those things are always behind impassable terrain/cover jump shoot and jump back again.

Assuming all those work as they do now in the new dex you need something more drastic than devs.

 

EDIT: Sorry for the tone and if anything sounds a bit harsh/hostile, no such intention :D

[Vash]

Your devastators can fire Krak missiles and choose their targets in squads?

Don't need to.

They come with 3 per squad at most, iirc.

Assuming you inflict at least 3 wounds, they all pop.

Page 15 of the BRB (Wound allocation and remove casualties) states that the nearest model takes the first wound, which would insta-kill the battlesuit. So regardless of it being a character or not (LoS), they'd all go pop, just the order in which they pop differs.

Well good using them to instakill 3+ models and the squad leader. I think luck is gonna be needed unless you have rigged dice.

I myself prefer more solid results to praying and will be arming my devs a bit more heavily, after all I dont want to spend an entire game rolling to destroy 3-4 suits. There is are entire armies out there and I am bound to face some AV14 at some point.

So if you are a bit on the list tailoring/meta side and know for certain that no AV14 or terminators are gonna ruin your day, then by all means stick to the missiles.

And you need LoS to at least one of their models which trust me you wont have due to jetpacks. Those things are always behind impassable terrain/cover jump shoot and jump back again.

Assuming all those work as they do now in the new dex you need something more drastic than devs.

EDIT: Sorry for the tone and if anything sounds a bit harsh/hostile, no such intention

I will agree with you here.

It looks like people are creating anti Tau lists. I for one seldom see devs with 4 missile launchers. Usually I see lascannons, plasma cannons, heavy bolters.

As you say, LoS is something we need to pick those Suits out, and Tau players will be careful with their Suits.

I played Tau myself, very heavy on the suits and drones. People had a hard time taking me out. Branded my Tau army as a "chicken" army, never showing its face.

Games were long. 6 turns and I seldom killed entire armies. I relied on staying alive and killing just enough to secure solid wins.

I am expecting the new Tau dex to be easier to handle with tactics that benefit ranged fighting. We can argue as much as we want, but Space marines will have a hard time out shooting Tau or IG. They are shooty armies, and pay for it with bad close combat.

Taus survivability comes from mobility, not fast mobility though, but able to shoot and move. We all know this, but tend to forget it.

With a new line of weapons and new support drones, I think we are up to a solid dex. GWs new way of making dex's is better, as they are trying to keep all the new dex's at an equal level, and skipping the "new dex syndrome/is best".

Pathfinders I really hope will be boosted in some way. It looks like it from what I can read from the WD. New weapons, and drones.

With Ion weapons and rail rifles tearing through 3+, and drones lowering cover saves, it will be hard to hide from Taus shooting.

[Interrogator Stobz]

I'm thinking my ubiquitous Typhoons are going to deepstrike or outflank even more, behind the cover that Tau need then those CMLs are going to cause massive pain to the foul little Fishsacks and their dirty jetpacks. I just need to survive until the cavalry arrives :P

[Brother Immolator]

I had an arguement on the dev loadout (again) on an irrelevant to the subject thread (it seems
to be haunting me) as this one so I am not going to endeavour further save to say this: I am happy to see that people get to understand
that devs need other load outs. Most arguements I hear are the old arguements from people who used to play 5th and read things on the net and never sat a model on the table. I am not a veteran as some brothers on this forum can certainly attest, but I can carry my weight on tactics to understand some things.

Tell your oponents to play with a gimped codex and ignore half their armies special rules each time they call you chicken.

I'm thinking my ubiquitous Typhoons are going to deepstrike or outflank even more, behind the cover that Tau need then those CMLs are going to cause massive pain to the foul little Fishsacks and their dirty jetpacks. I just need to survive until the cavalry arrives

All that provided they work the same and they dont have something to interrupt our deepstriking and outflanking.

As Onisuzume said, its too early to lift our pens for writting down anti tau lists. We dont have the codex and the ink is not even dry from modifying my list into taking deamons into account dammit!

[Vash]

Typhoons outflanking. A nice idea. But how many are you going to outflank? Will they arrive on the right side?

Is it worth spending 75 pts per model, just to take out some suits? And these suits will probably expect your arrival... its not a secret they will come if you put them in reserve... and trust me... Tau players will use cover in turn 2 to save their suits against outflanking attacks. 

The AV10 on the typhoons will die to basic Tau fire. S5 on every single weapon, except flamers... Rapid fire range from pulse rifles, burst cannons etc. The suits dont need to focus at all on the typhoon, and can continue doing their job at attacking the oncoming support for the typhoons. 

 

So... will the typhoons be coming in units? or will they come as single models from RAS units? 

As a unit, it means you will have less Black knights, and perhaps no Dark Shroud, as RAS support unit, you need a lot of points invested. 

 

I dont honestly think the Typhoons are the answer to the battle suits dodging... 

 

My money is on Belial since he can deep strike anywhere, in turn 1. 

 

@Brother Immolator

He he, I don't really care much what people call my armies. In the end, they enjoy the game against me, since I am in the end a good sportsman. 

They know, most of them, that Tau have a weak dex, and I succeed in using them bothers some since they expect them to be push overs. 

Now I haven't played Tau in 6th edition, so I can't honestly say I know anything about how they fair today. 

[Interrogator Stobz]

I nearly always take at least three Typhoons in any competative(ish) list, no need for me to taylor. Also I know they are fragile but if they do their job then it's points well spent.

 

My point is we can deal with Tau with a change in tactics/use of current units without throwing out the list and tayloring for the new baddies. We already have the tools, we just need to use them right.

 

Your point about Belial is bang on, we need to close with and slay the shooty vermin and not try to outshoot him. I use Typhoons to assist that basic premise, not to replace it. It all comes down to target priority and saturation.

 

 

Edited: zpelink beterer for my good friend Brother Immolator :P

[Brother Immolator]

I nealy alway take

HA! Caught that before the edit (had to do it )

Not tailoring, but having a more solid all comers really.

[Vash]

@Stobz

I agree. We do have the tools. And we don't need to tailor our list. Just as the Tau wont need to tailor their lists to beat us. 

A well balanced list will be able to handle most situations thrown at them. These are usually competitive/tournaments lists. It comes down to the general who is playing them to make the best out the situation. 

 

Specialist armies, such as pure Ravenwing and Deathwing armies usually have a strong weak spot. 

While they may have a variation of tactics, it basically comes down to do or die. 

 

I am currently playing a Ravenwing army with Dark Angles. And I am still trying out the Typhoons. Done good so far, but I have kept mine as long range support. 

My tactic will be based on a turn 2 (or when the reserves arrive) assault. It doesn't really necessary mean I will be charging in, but closing the gap and gathering my forces to hit hard on a flank. 

For me, if I fail to do enough damage I will be doomed as I will face rapid fire range of their weapons in turn. And my numbers are few. 

[Rizara]

Against a shooty gun line, that seems to the be the best idea, rush into close combat and take them down.   The difference between tau and IG gun lines is numbers.  IG are number weak shots, that get you by sheer volume, while tau are high str shots at extreme ranges, which get you through several rounds of fire.   Tau unlike IG are actually easier to eliminate in close combat due to smaller unit sizes, so against tau, rushing them is often your best move, get in as fast as possible, remove their range of fire and hope you survive the incoming fire as you do so.   IG on the other hand, require some shooting as you rush forward, focusing with template weapons if you got any.    I only say that because I just played a small tournament this weekend, granted it was 750, but playing both a tau player and an IG player, I experienced both.   The IG player was lot of bodies, which is typically still to be expected, just higher points me they get to supplement tanks.  Higher points of Tau will be the same thing, tanks, rail guns, pieplates coming my way, but the tau player still fear our units, especially stuff like our raven wing attack bikes with anti suit weaponry, anti tank weaponry, and higher toughness.  At least in my small game my attack bike and speeder were his biggest threats.

 

Either way, suits are scary, but as a player, you have to still focus on the mission objectives to win.  Many times that means not worring about the suits unless they are too big a threat, and focusing on the troops like his fire warriors.  No troops, no objectives, no chance of a real win, just units that might contest your objectives if you can keep your troops alive.  

 

in the end, Tau will still be tau, gun lines with mobile units, scary long ranged weapons, but a huge weakness of close combat.

[Vash]

Funny thing is. I have actually made a close range Tau army in the past. Pulse carbines and burst cannons. I actually charged with my fire warriors. I ended up winning many times in close combat. But course... I made sure I had shot them to pieces before I charged.

With rumors that carbines will be assault 2 I might reincarnate the aggressive Tau once more.

 

Bare in mind. I only had like 66% win ratio with this list. And also I think it was to high, but that was due to the fact that my opponents never really expected Tau to charge in for close combat.

[Onisuzume]

Tau unlike IG are actually easier to eliminate in close combat due to smaller unit sizes, so against tau, rushing them is often your best move, get in as fast as possible, remove their range of fire and hope you survive the incoming fire as you do so

Smaller unit sizes? Not really.

Fire Warriors are 6-12, kroot are even higher.

IG are generally 5 or 10 with some exceptions being 3 (Heavy weapons), 6 (special weapons) or 20-50 (conscripts).

So the question is, what unit size are fire warriors usually fielded at.

[Brother Immolator]

 

Tau unlike IG are actually easier to eliminate in close combat due to smaller unit sizes, so against tau, rushing them is often your best move, get in as fast as possible, remove their range of fire and hope you survive the incoming fire as you do so

Smaller unit sizes? Not really.

Fire Warriors are 6-12, kroot are even higher.

IG are generally 5 or 10 with some exceptions being 3 (Heavy weapons), 6 (special weapons) or 20-50 (conscripts).

So the question is, what unit size are fire warriors usually fielded at.

 

Right now at bare minimum to hold objectives. But thats bound to change.

[Rizara]

lol tau sometimes are great in close combat.  Back in third when I played tau, I had a broadside hold its own in melee against a dark eldar lord and incubi.  he lasted 3 rounds of close combat and even caused a wound on the dark eldar lord.   That being said, I had only got draws against dark eldar back then, and lost games against the old days rhino rush blood angels, or nurgle, because they were just tough nuts to crack.  

I haven't used the army later, but I played against them.  When I say close combat weakness, that of course means against close combat focused units.  Every unit can deal with close combat, but its those units that have high number of attacks on a charge, and are designed for melee that can really stick it to tau.   Also closing the gap and getting stuck in means you wont have to deal with the taus strength, its guns.  Creates a more survivable setting for marines since marines have better melee stats than tau every will.   Now I am completely stating tau only units, not kroot or vespids or whatever else they decide to add in this rules update.  

 

As for IG to tau comparisons, well IG have more bodies, if they go for heavy infantry lists.  Their units are 5-10 sure, and tau are 6-12, but you can easily field 2 or 3 units of IG for one full unit of firewarriors.  Those conscripts of 30 are a pain to get rid off however, I think that was what I dealt with over the weekend in a 750 point game.  two units of conscrips, 1 command squad, 1 veteran squad, 1 primaris pysker, 1 wolf priest, 1 rune priest, and 5 grey hunters.  I just had way to many IG to try to take out with my small force.  I only had 2 5 man tac squads, 4 bikes, 1 attack bike, 1 speeder, 1 librarian on bike, and 3 black knights.  I simply didn't have enough shooting to eliminate the two front units of 30.  Course my dice were failing from the first turn that game so that didn't help either.  

[Vash]

Got my hands on the Codex for some mystical reasons. 

 

I must say, as a former Tau Empire player, I am excited. 

 

They made the army more snooty, more dodgy, and betterish in close combat. 

 

Cover saves... forget it. Tau will deny your cover easier than other armies with any weapon (thanks to path finders). 

 

An interesting support system is the repulsor impact field. it gives suits 1D6 S4 hits at ini 10 in close combat (when charged though). A Farsight and body guards (7 bodyguards) will thus do 7 D6 S4 hits... Loads of points though :)

 

What I can say is... dont underestimate the Tau now. They will blow us to pieces if we don't pay them the respect they surly deserve now. 

[Rizara]

all hail the return of codex creep lol. 

 

Well they did need some improvements, not sure I am happy about the denial of coversave, as that also removes jink saves which sort of stinks.  You would think that scouts are able to dodge incoming fire, marker lights or not, I  mean, after all, ravenwing have been a bike company for over 10k years, but these upstart xenos can now ignore their ability to dodge stuff, all because it counts as a cover save, not an invulnerable save as it should be.  Luckily their aren't as many tau players in my neck of the woods, plus the fact that it will be hard pressed for the flavor of the month bring in a lot of tau as demons are still hot off the shelves too. 

 

Oh well, glory to the first!!!!!

 

Maybe I might start a small tau army on the side as well, maybe hehehe.

[Lysere]

I will say as a former Tau player, trying to be "ready" for them is pretty tough unless you know exactly what your opponent has in his list. Even with the old Codex there were several different ways to run your core units, did you use tanks and suits, what weapons did they pack.

 

Also missile don't scare crisis suits due to the ability to take drones, as well as their JSJ so they can literally hide behind walls where you can't see them. To guarantee the death of a Crisis team you need a lot of firepower, and they only ever are a small part of a larger army that is much better at shredding units than most people seem to realize.

 

It is after all the Tau way of war to focus fire the largest threats into oblivion before they can deal their damage.

 

That and the Tau tanks are incredibly resilient for their role, I'm sure this won't be changed much come Saturday.

[elphilo]

all hail the return of codex creep lol. 

 

Well they did need some improvements, not sure I am happy about the denial of coversave, as that also removes jink saves which sort of stinks.  You would think that scouts are able to dodge incoming fire, marker lights or not, I  mean, after all, ravenwing have been a bike company for over 10k years, but these upstart xenos can now ignore their ability to dodge stuff, all because it counts as a cover save, not an invulnerable save as it should be.  Luckily their aren't as many tau players in my neck of the woods, plus the fact that it will be hard pressed for the flavor of the month bring in a lot of tau as demons are still hot off the shelves too. 

 

Oh well, glory to the first!!!!!

 

Maybe I might start a small tau army on the side as well, maybe hehehe.

Eh, depending on the rest of the codex its probably really balanced. As is the other 6th edition codices. And as to the cover save removal, I didn't really know the old codex, but didn't they screw with cover saves beforehand? I'm not surprised that they can now remove it altogether. But remember the great equalizer is points. Hopefully to remove cover saves it will cost a hefty chunk of points!