Soooo....Tau?

[Brother Immolator]

Got my hands on the Codex for some mystical reasons.

I must say, as a former Tau Empire player, I am excited.

They made the army more snooty, more dodgy, and betterish in close combat.

Cover saves... forget it. Tau will deny your cover easier than other armies with any weapon (thanks to path finders).

An interesting support system is the repulsor impact field. it gives suits 1D6 S4 hits at ini 10 in close combat (when charged though). A Farsight and body guards (7 bodyguards) will thus do 7 D6 S4 hits... Loads of points though

What I can say is... dont underestimate the Tau now. They will blow us to pieces if we don't pay them the respect they surly deserve now.

Thats another hit to the darkshroud, as I told march10k (on another thread) the list would go on. Yay me for been a Cassandra!

Are you a mole into GW Vash? Because if you are I have some cheese I am willing to exchange for a codex copy :P

EDIT: Dont demean the DA player base guys. Lets see, read, judge and then pronounce the codex. Its not even out and all I hear is codex creep codex creep. Dammit....

[Lysere]

 

all hail the return of codex creep lol. 

 

Well they did need some improvements, not sure I am happy about the denial of coversave, as that also removes jink saves which sort of stinks.  You would think that scouts are able to dodge incoming fire, marker lights or not, I  mean, after all, ravenwing have been a bike company for over 10k years, but these upstart xenos can now ignore their ability to dodge stuff, all because it counts as a cover save, not an invulnerable save as it should be.  Luckily their aren't as many tau players in my neck of the woods, plus the fact that it will be hard pressed for the flavor of the month bring in a lot of tau as demons are still hot off the shelves too. 

 

Oh well, glory to the first!!!!!

 

Maybe I might start a small tau army on the side as well, maybe hehehe.

Eh, depending on the rest of the codex its probably really balanced. As is the other 6th edition codices. And as to the cover save removal, I didn't really know the old codex, but didn't they screw with cover saves beforehand? I'm not surprised that they can now remove it altogether. But remember the great equalizer is points. Hopefully to remove cover saves it will cost a hefty chunk of points!

 

Well the old codex you'd need to spend about 120 points on a pathfinder team with their mandatory transport to do that. Now the transport is optional or so I've heard, meaning it got cheaper.

[elphilo]

Well the old codex you'd need to spend about 120 points on a pathfinder team with their mandatory transport to do that. Now the transport is optional or so I've heard, meaning it got cheaper.

Okay, so have Pathfinders stayed the same price then? And I thought it was all marker lights that could do the cover shenanigans? If so, what are the price on the marker lights? As I've said before my knowledge of Tau is very limited!

[Lysere]

well pathfinders were only 2 pts more than a firewarrior, and I'm sure they got cheaper since their armor is changing from 4+ to 5+ last i checked. Regardless it should be easier now, and it sounds like you need less hits to make it work.

 

Before each marker light hit could drop the cover save by 1 per mark used for a single unit. Rumors I heard at one point seem to say this will buff will target a single unit but be army wide or at least a much larger effect.

[shortysl]

Pathfinders are getting a 5+ armour save you say? Let's see how handy their Markerlights are when they've got a 0.75in hole in their filthy xeno chests then!

 

That, and I knew there would come a day that my decision to take mauls as my Power Weapons would be justified! Crunch! Squish! There are going to be a lot of Tau widows crying into their dinner when the Dark Angels are finished!

[Lysere]

Pathfinders are getting a 5+ armour save you say? Let's see how handy their Markerlights are when they've got a 0.75in hole in their filthy xeno chests then!

 

That, and I knew there would come a day that my decision to take mauls as my Power Weapons would be justified! Crunch! Squish! There are going to be a lot of Tau widows crying into their dinner when the Dark Angels are finished!

 

My Black Templar are looking forward to the update as well since I have a fair number of maul (and chaplains) lying around. Don't forget though you might have a hard time making that charge, the Tau have learned a thing or two since their last codex.

[shortysl]

 

Pathfinders are getting a 5+ armour save you say? Let's see how handy their Markerlights are when they've got a 0.75in hole in their filthy xeno chests then!

 

That, and I knew there would come a day that my decision to take mauls as my Power Weapons would be justified! Crunch! Squish! There are going to be a lot of Tau widows crying into their dinner when the Dark Angels are finished!

 

My Black Templar are looking forward to the update as well since I have a fair number of maul (and chaplains) lying around. Don't forget though you might have a hard time making that charge, the Tau have learned a thing or two since their last codex.

Hey, if my Deathwing Knights can't get through to make the charge, then nothing can. For the Lion!

[Gillyfish]

Gents, this is veering towards discussion of the new toys the blue xenos get, rather than how to beat them. Please move this back on to that topic or it will get closed!

[Lysere]

To be honest we still have a few days until anyone can really discuss how to beat them, army tactics survive, but without an idea of what everything does strategy can not be crafted. How do you beat that which you know nothing about?

 

Close combat has always been a weak spot for Tau, but now it seems only dedicated assault units can reliably deal with them. Jump packs come to mind, as do terminators.

[Vash]

So I have made some example lists to see what I need to "counter" Tau. I wont be building anti lists, but need to figure out what to focus on. 

 

As mentioned, Crisis suits in the past had the option to get a drone controller and add drones. Today they have the ability to add drones without a drone controller. 

So each crisis suit can now have 2 drones for a pretty cheap price. Missile drones or shield drones will probably be used. 

So the crisis suits will be well protected. 

I wish I could say that close combat was the solution, but getting there will be hard since the crisis suits will be well protected by the rest of the army. 

 

I also saw a horrible combo when I built my Tau list. Shadowsun character grants Shrouded and Stealth... so if she joins a unit of suits... well they basically get 2+ cover save. 

She also has a drone that grants re-roll to hit for a unit... 

This combo might be a hard nut for us to break. But, I figure that shadowsun will be joining units with similar range as her Fusion blasters (18" nowdays). So our ravenwing bikers will be able to catch them in close combat atleast. 

 

But I am here afraid of overwatch combined with marker lights... crisis suits as I have made them atm have twin-linked weapons too (since they have multi-tracker built in now). 

 

Which brings me to the pathfinders. They have basically two boosts. Boost BS, and deny cover (all cover is lost for two markers). Now these guys are not hard to kill. 5+ save as you guys said, and I would say they are a high priority target! 

Find them and kill them. Almost everything in the Tau army has BS3, so they need their boost, and we need our cover save, specially me who plays ravenwing :)

And yes, they dont need to buy a transport anymore. their cost is really low now if you want them as pure support. Less than our scouts... 

 

Hammerheads are rock hard as before. Able to overwatch for some points, and can increase their jink save too, lets say... skilled rider good. 

Now these tanks have been an issue before, and are equally hard/easy to bring down now. Lascannons and what not is what we need here. Also, outflanking the tank will work. Side and rear are wonrable to our plasma talons.

 

The Riptide... A monster really. But since he is sitting on terminator armour, he will fall to massed plasma or heavy weapons with AP2. His IV save is like the terminators. So he wont save to many, unless he uses his nova reactor to boost it to a storm shield IV save. 

Again, for me this guy is both terrifying and a push over. If I can outflank him with black knights, he will fall fast. 

 

Fire warriors. The core I guess. 1 pt cheaper, and pulse carbines are now assault 2. So expect to see some mobile Fire warriors. So if you meet a unit of Pulse carbines warriors... take them out, as they can cause pinning. Anything goes against fire warriors. Carapace armour and IG stats. So not to hard to kill. 

Dakka banner will do nice against them. Whirlwind... well no more fire warriors. 

 

Stealth suits. Same as before really. Stealth and shrouded. Burst cannon has +1 shot now. These guys have the same issue as Shadowsun. Range. Of course, they can jump, move, jump, but against fast units, like our bikes, it wont be enough. 

 

 

All in all... I think we need fast units against Tau. They are mobile but not fast. 

Bikes, Belial with his nice ability are some examples. 

A greenwing army based on shooting will have the hardest time against the new tau, as they will out shoot most of us, or just dodge all the time. 

[Lysere]

Suits are not so much protected by the army, rather they play hide and go seek with yours. Also while the tau are not as fast as a bike army, they are far more mobile.

 

This is to suit their primary form of warfare that focus's on bringing a massive amount of firepower to bear on the single strongest or weakest point in the enemy army and breaking it down.

 

Whirlwinds I thought lacked the AP to munch firewarrios, at least ones in cover. (Can't field them so not sure) Either way pathfinders are definitely a priority target. They were before, and now they are even more important.

 

I'm sure stealth suits will be able to outflank still so watching your side or even rear lines (commander wargear option) is important.

 

Also riptide sounds like it'll be a massive shock unit. Meant to do massive amounts of damage very quickly before it gets gunned down. It's high toughness will make it imperative to focus fire with large guns to effectively wound it, but that leaves other elements free to operate.

[Tiger9gamer]

Needless to say, Mech will be ripped apart?

[Vash]

Well the riptide isnt all to resilient. It has the same toughness as the Grey Knight Dreadknight, and the same save. One wound more than the dreadknight though. 

WS and BS is lower, the same as the Fire warriors. 

 

But, the weapon the Riptide holds is fearsome for us. Large blast S8 AP2 (has 3 modes, but I guess this one will be used the most, and this is not the nova reactor mode...).

So I would put much effort into killing this beast, pretty fast. Combined with Pathfinders they will tear through our deathwing units like butter. 

 

But all in all, the new codexes are balanced from what I can see so far. We will have a decent fight against the Tau. 

[Lysere]

They are also elite so you can expect to see some big gun lists with 2-3 of them and 2-3 broadside teams.

 

Thinking about it that might one of the best lists for Tau as far as I can tell.

[Vash]

They are also elite so you can expect to see some big gun lists with 2-3 of them and 2-3 broadside teams.

 

Thinking about it that might one of the best lists for Tau as far as I can tell.

Problem I can see in the codex... is that broadsides are not Jet infantry, and are not slow and purposeful nor relentless. Their entry says Infantry. 

So they can't move and shoot, and I can't find any option that makes them mobile. 

 

I am prepering for 2 Riptides, and Hammerheads I think. But I could be wrong about the Broadsides. I havn't read the codex enough to get it straight :)

 

In general I think, atm, the Hammerheads and sky rays pose more of a threat than the broadsides. 

[Lysere]

Broadsides have always been best used as a tough and incredibly strong ranged support unit.

 

They lack mobility, but their range means your only safe place is where they can't see you. It's hard to hide from several units of them though.

[Brother Immolator]

The nova reactor requires a roll and on 1-2 it gets some wounds to the suit without any kind of saves.

Its kinda risky to use.

[Vash]

Broadsides have always been best used as a tough and incredibly strong ranged support unit.

 

They lack mobility, but their range means your only safe place is where they can't see you. It's hard to hide from several units of them though.

Well I will fear the hammerheads more I think. Broadside has s8 nowadays. Range 60". Buuut. They are dirty cheap! Slightly less than a combat squad of tacticals.

[Vash]

The nova reactor requires a roll and on 1-2 it gets some wounds to the suit without any kind of saves.

Its kinda risky to use.

The benefits are greatly over rated by GW. You only lose1 wound if you fail.

You get a list of 4 things you can do.

 

So I won't expect them to use the nova reactor on us if they have the ion weapon. It is AP 2 so we will fear it no matter what.

Come to think of it. I think black knights are the answer to many things against Tau.

[Brother Immolator]

 

The nova reactor requires a roll and on 1-2 it gets some wounds to the suit without any kind of saves.

Its kinda risky to use.

The benefits are greatly over rated by GW. You only lose1 wound if you fail.

You get a list of 4 things you can do.

 

So I won't expect them to use the nova reactor on us if they have the ion weapon. It is AP 2 so we will fear it no matter what.

Come to think of it. I think black knights are the answer to many things against Tau.

Havent the actual listing on me, only what tid bits I have talked about with an insider.

The black knights are becoming our ace unit with every passing week. And I am still proxiying....Draaat!

[Vash]

 

 

The nova reactor requires a roll and on 1-2 it gets some wounds to the suit without any kind of saves.

Its kinda risky to use.

The benefits are greatly over rated by GW. You only lose1 wound if you fail.

You get a list of 4 things you can do.

 

So I won't expect them to use the nova reactor on us if they have the ion weapon. It is AP 2 so we will fear it no matter what.

Come to think of it. I think black knights are the answer to many things against Tau.

Havent the actual listing on me, only what tid bits I have talked about with an insider.

The black knights are becoming our ace unit with every passing week. And I am still proxiying....Draaat!

Ask me anything. I have the insider information (codex). So tactics and such you can start making now (roughly) if you want to. 

[Brother Immolator]

The nova reactor requires a roll and on 1-2 it gets some wounds to the suit without any kind of saves.

Its kinda risky to use.

The benefits are greatly over rated by GW. You only lose1 wound if you fail.

You get a list of 4 things you can do.

So I won't expect them to use the nova reactor on us if they have the ion weapon. It is AP 2 so we will fear it no matter what.

Come to think of it. I think black knights are the answer to many things against Tau.

Havent the actual listing on me, only what tid bits I have talked about with an insider.

The black knights are becoming our ace unit with every passing week. And I am still proxiying....Draaat!

Ask me anything. I have the insider information (codex). So tactics and such you can start making now (roughly) if you want to.

I am expecting a pal of mine to buy/have a delivery of the damn thing. And knowing him, the book will make permanent vacation on my bookself

So I am not concearned that much right now. Best have our fratters shoot questions

Not so many tau in my gaming group either, plus there is no better learning experience than handing your...donkey on a silver plater.

[pueriexdeus]

I thought I saw a ruling that states that Blast Weapons can ignore cover saves. The ruling indicated that although the weapon may have been fired from the other side of intervening cover. It detonates at the point of impact (Hole in center of Template) denying the cover save.  Has anyone else seen this?

Whirlwinds I thought lacked the AP to munch firewarrios, at least ones in cover. (Can't field them so not sure) Either way pathfinders are definitely a priority target. They were before, and now they are even more important.

[Lysere]

Barrage weapons only. If you are in cover it does not ignore it unless the weapon itself has the ignores cover rule.

 

If they were behind a wall and the shot landed on the same side as them yes, but no one will be putting pathfinders behind a wall, area terrain is their home.

[L30n1d4s]

I think black knights and their plasma talons will be key for dropping tau Battlesuits of all kinds, especially Riptides.