Plasma cannon terminator

[march10k]

I think it's a really cool, but really impractical, option.  Terminators don't suffer from an absence of AP2, they come with a powerfist by default, and you have to go out of your way to reduce that to AP3.  What terminators do suffer from is low model count and low volume of fire.  Every other heavy weapon option does more to help with that problem than the plasma cannon does.  Charging a mob?  Heavy flamer.  Camping an objective?  two frags or two kraks do more than one plasma blast.  Vengeance striking?  Twinlinked assault cannon trumps twinlinked plasma cannon all day long and twice on Sunday.

 

It's a really cool looking model that just doesn't make sense on the tabletop.  I'm not sure I want to "waste" a model on one the way I am for the command squad that I'll never field.

[Nasse]

Isn't cyclone missile launcher something like double the cost of the plasma cannon too? So for half the cost of a CML, you're getting a single krak missile equivalent, except it's also blast?

[elphilo]

I personally like it. It's always the go to downgrade if I want to shave a few points here and there. But personally I prefer the Assault Cannon over the PC. 

[AngelVeto]

Same as ephilio. If its a choice between a squad having an ass cannon or a plasma cannon and chain fist, I roll the PC, because I like to have at least one chain fist in every squad. Plus against stock meq the plasmas ap2 trumps the average ap4 of the ass cannon, you can get more than 4 hits if your target isn't spread out to the dickens (deep striking, transport popped etc) and re-rolling that scatter die on the drop is pretty sweet.

 

I think I just talked myself into taking the PC more often haha

[Brother Immolator]

Depends on what you want to deal with.

If you want it strictly against MEQ/TEQ is way superior.

If you want an all rounder the CML wins.

IMHO the PC is a tad better than an assault cannon. Because I cant roll that many sixes.

 

Its a specialized piece of gear, it can/must be deployed where needed.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Personally i would use one just for rule of cool. If he actually kills someone it's a bonus... I don't have much luck when it comes to template damage, but that's just me.

[JeffJedi]

My theory: It's the Anti-Chaos Weapon. A Chaos Terminator squad could deepstrike in and shoot with Combi Melta or Plasma. With Inner Circle you reroll to hit of 1s (goodbye overheats) and reroll to wound of 1s (2+ to wound)

 

So it's the Anti Chaos Terminator weapon.

[march10k]

My theory: It's the Anti-Chaos Weapon. A Chaos Terminator squad could deepstrike in and shoot with Combi Melta or Plasma. With Inner Circle you reroll to hit of 1s (goodbye overheats) and reroll to wound of 1s (2+ to wound)

 

So it's the Anti Chaos Terminator weapon.

 

• Now THAT is a good reason to take one. 
• The CML costs 60% more for far more versatility, not to mention the ability to mount one on a thundernator, I'd NOT consider a plasma cannon a "krak missile blast." 
• I do like to have a few chain fists scattered around....but PC/CF versus AC/PF was not the question, the shooty weapon in isolation was.  I mean, in a DW list, finding (multiples of five) points to spend on chain fist(s) isn't that hard!
• They are cool...and nobody else can have them.  That's tempting...

I think the choice of heavy weapon should be based on what your list needs.  If you're using terminators to shoot marines to death, you're doing it wrong.  And that's what plasma cannons are for.  Termies should shoot GEQs and charge MEQs.  If you're fisting gaunts or dakka-ing obliterators, that's horribly inefficient.  PCs make termies better at something they shouldn't be doing in the first place, at the expense of not being able to take something to help with antitank or horde control.

[ilnar]

Plasma is for walking termies,

Acannon deep strikes and opens cans,

Plasma cannon kills all the lovely bunched up

 

Also, it looks amazing,

[Onisuzume]

My theory: It's the Anti-Chaos Weapon. A Chaos Terminator squad could deepstrike in and shoot with Combi Melta or Plasma. With Inner Circle you reroll to hit of 1s (goodbye overheats) and reroll to wound of 1s (2+ to wound)

 

So it's the Anti Chaos Terminator weapon.

Well, vastly-reduce the chance of an overheat, since you can't re-roll a re-roll.

[march10k]

 

Acannon deep strikes and opens cans,

Plasma cannon kills all the lovely bunched up

 

 

...except that nothing forces them to bunch up.  six models inside the wreckage of a rhino, well spaced, and four on the far side.  Congratulations, your PC hits two models, and they get a 4+ save.

[Master Avoghai]

I use also plasma cannon for range sake.

 

I'm glad to have a 36" range weapon with S7 to deal with transports in a DW heavy army.

 

You say that termis charge MeQ, but what if you DS? You cannot charge and must prevent a counter charge the following turn.

There are also times when you're  too far anyway and you're happy to have this AP2 weapon.

 

talking about covers... It's also funny to see your opponent hesitating to leave his cover to advance by fear of you plasma cannon. And sometimes it's too late for him and he lost one phase of movement.

 

Plasma cannon is not the ultimate weapon but really helps for its price. I've finished a 2500pts list and have 5 HW : 2 AC, 2CML and one PC

[march10k]

I suppose that if you are running five terminator squads, then one PC isn't too many...  You do seem to have a rather funny opinion of the bravery of space marines, though.  When terminators deepstrike next to them, they only charge if they're too close to avoid a charge by fleeing....if they're at least 4" away, they run, instead. 

 

Anyway, I'm not saying that a PC is a bod tool to use against MEQs...I'm saying that MEQs are the one target profile against which deathwing don't need help.  Sure, the PC makes them better against MEQs...but at the expense of failing to make them less terrible against other enemies, as a CML, HF, or Ass Cannon would.

[Brother Immolator]

 

 

Acannon deep strikes and opens cans,

Plasma cannon kills all the lovely bunched up

 

 

...except that nothing forces them to bunch up.  six models inside the wreckage of a rhino, well spaced, and four on the far side.  Congratulations, your PC hits two models, and they get a 4+ save.

You cannot have models inside the wreckage of the rhino. They imediately dissembark from the hatchpoints and the wreckage is for all intents and purpose LOS blocking and impacable (unless it exploded, then it becomes a crater and then they are placed where it used to be, but there is no wreckage then).

[MadMek83]

Rule of Cool: Plasma cannons look cool and are nice. Also you should never underestimate psychological effect of relentless plasma cannon on field doing inside your opponents head. It can screw up really badly some people game plan.

Reality: Choose heavy weapons that suit your play style.

Summa Summarum: Magnets are your friends.

[Aromir]

You cannot have models inside the wreckage of the rhino. They imediately dissembark from the hatchpoints and the wreckage is for all intents and purpose LOS blocking and impacable (unless it exploded, then it becomes a crater and then they are placed where it used to be, but there is no wreckage then).

 

Sorry to correct you but this is not how it works in the current rules.

 

A wrecked vehicle is considered Difficult and Dangerous Terrain, but not impassable and also provides a +5 cover save. These rules can be read in the big rule book rule book on page 74, under the section wrecked vehicles. You are right as far, that you can't disembark into the wreck of the vehicle thats transporting you, due to the fact that a vehicle is only considered wrecked after you have disemnbarked. This can be read on page 80.

[Brother Immolator]

 

You cannot have models inside the wreckage of the rhino. They imediately dissembark from the hatchpoints and the wreckage is for all intents and purpose LOS blocking and impacable (unless it exploded, then it becomes a crater and then they are placed where it used to be, but there is no wreckage then).

 

Sorry to correct you but this is not how it works in the current rules.

 

A wrecked vehicle is considered Difficult and Dangerous Terrain, but not impassable and also provides a +5 cover save. These rules can be read in the big rule book rule book on page 74, under the section wrecked vehicles. You are right as far, that you can't disembark into the wreck of the vehicle thats transporting you, due to the fact that a vehicle is only considered wrecked after you have disemnbarked. This can be read on page 80.

 

No need to ask sorry bro, I am always happy when I am corrected as long as the correction is handled politely and with good intent as you did.

To my defence I had the dissembarkation rules in pg 80 to my mind, due to march10k saying that the models from the rhino will be inside their vehicles wreckage, which cant be done, at least on the same turn.

Thanks for clearing that!

[Master Avoghai]

You do seem to have a rather funny opinion of the bravery of space marines, though. When terminators deepstrike next to them, they only charge if they're too close to avoid a charge by fleeing....

Nope

What I meant is just , since you can't charge, you can't destroy them in CC like you've suggested.

So you're happy to be able to destroy more of them to prevent them shooting at you. The more you kill the turn you arrive, the less you'll have to destroy the following turn.

[shabbadoo]

I think it's a really cool, but really impractical, option.  Terminators don't suffer from an absence of AP2, they come with a powerfist by default, and you have to go out of your way to reduce that to AP3.  What terminators do suffer from is low model count and low volume of fire.  Every other heavy weapon option does more to help with that problem than the plasma cannon does.  Charging a mob?  Heavy flamer.  Camping an objective?  two frags or two kraks do more than one plasma blast.  Vengeance striking?  Twinlinked assault cannon trumps twinlinked plasma cannon all day long and twice on Sunday.

 

It's a really cool looking model that just doesn't make sense on the tabletop.  I'm not sure I want to "waste" a model on one the way I am for the command squad that I'll never field.

I think you may find that many a Deathwing player who has to go up against cheaper Chaos Terminators very much likes to idea of being able to punk them with a plasma cannon shot before they get into close combat with them, such that the Deathwing will then have either evened out the odds, or may have even put the odds in their own favor.  The plasma cannon is all kinds of better than the assault cannon in this instance.  it is also pretty good against packed hordes, where the blast will likely hit more than 4 targets.  Once again, more "killy" than an assault cannon.  That is usefulness against polar opposite foes, meaning the plasma cannon is viable enough (not that having a weapon that removes all armor save sucks or anything in the first place).

[ilnar]

It's also really good against grey hunters. Which are irritatingly awesome,

30something attacks on the charge, rerolling ones, it was mildly painfull....

 

I find it a better all rounder than the CML, trading some anti tank capability in order to hit heavy infantry.

 

It depends on the list. I don't suffer from a lack of anti tank, thanks to my dreads and /or ravenwing so the CML is less attractive to me,

[march10k]

 

 

You cannot have models inside the wreckage of the rhino. They imediately dissembark from the hatchpoints and the wreckage is for all intents and purpose LOS blocking and impacable (unless it exploded, then it becomes a crater and then they are placed where it used to be, but there is no wreckage then).

 

Sorry to correct you but this is not how it works in the current rules.

 

A wrecked vehicle is considered Difficult and Dangerous Terrain, but not impassable and also provides a +5 cover save. These rules can be read in the big rule book rule book on page 74, under the section wrecked vehicles. You are right as far, that you can't disembark into the wreck of the vehicle thats transporting you, due to the fact that a vehicle is only considered wrecked after you have disemnbarked. This can be read on page 80.

 

No need to ask sorry bro, I am always happy when I am corrected as long as the correction is handled politely and with good intent as you did.

To my defence I had the dissembarkation rules in pg 80 to my mind, due to march10k saying that the models from the rhino will be inside their vehicles wreckage, which cant be done, at least on the same turn.

Thanks for clearing that!

 

Sorry, I was assuming exploded...which tends to happen to rhinos, lol....in my parlance, "hulk" is unexploded, "wreckage" is in pieces, exploded.  In any case, the point is that it's incorrect to assume that the enemy will be unable to claim a cover save against the plasma cannon after being forcibly dismounted!

 

 

 

I think it's a really cool, but really impractical, option.  Terminators don't suffer from an absence of AP2, they come with a powerfist by default, and you have to go out of your way to reduce that to AP3.  What terminators do suffer from is low model count and low volume of fire.  Every other heavy weapon option does more to help with that problem than the plasma cannon does.  Charging a mob?  Heavy flamer.  Camping an objective?  two frags or two kraks do more than one plasma blast.  Vengeance striking?  Twinlinked assault cannon trumps twinlinked plasma cannon all day long and twice on Sunday.

 

It's a really cool looking model that just doesn't make sense on the tabletop.  I'm not sure I want to "waste" a model on one the way I am for the command squad that I'll never field.

I think you may find that many a Deathwing player who has to go up against cheaper Chaos Terminators very much likes to idea of being able to punk them with a plasma cannon shot before they get into close combat with them, such that the Deathwing will then have either evened out the odds, or may have even put the odds in their own favor.  The plasma cannon is all kinds of better than the assault cannon in this instance.  it is also pretty good against packed hordes, where the blast will likely hit more than 4 targets.  Once again, more "killy" than an assault cannon.  That is usefulness against polar opposite foes, meaning the plasma cannon is viable enough (not that having a weapon that removes all armor save sucks or anything in the first place).

 

Great, so they're the cat's meow against chaos terminators.  I could have told you that, I had a "sacred number" (9) sized squad of chosen terminators (every one a psycher) drop in front of me at GD Atlanta about 12 years ago...They ate plasma and died to a man.  That doesn't make it the ideal "all comers" choice.  They also can hit more than four models in a shoulder to shoulder horde, granted.  I haven't seen one of those since the last time I faced a proper green tide (241 models!), but okay.  Thing is, take whatever number of hits, and double it, that's what frag missiles would do to the same horde.  And up close?  Heavy flamer's even better.  The plasma cannon is third best, out of four, against a tightly packed horde, and deat last against a spread out one.  That's not versatility.  It's good against MEQs and TEQs, assuming that it hits two or more models.  It's a specialized weapon, not an all-rounder.  Against every other target, one of the other options is better.  You want an all-comers weapon.  Look to the CML if you're walking and the assault cannon if you're DWAing.  The PC is cool.  Cool enough that I spam them in my tactical squads.  Cool enough that I mount one on my favorite dreddy.  But it's not a good match for terminators.  It's the tool of choice for those who need an answer to terminators.  Deathwing's answer is "my terminators outnumber yours 5-1, and if you get cheeky, my knights will put their maces in smite mode."  MEQs and GEQs need plasma to deal with termies.  Termies have powerfists for that.  What termies need is something to help rectify the model count imbalance.  The PC can be counted on to hit 1-2 models per turn...and, if they're not in cover, kill them.  That's not enough!

[shabbadoo]

The model count imbalance is best dealt with by shooty Terminators.  If your army is significantly outnumbered you will be facing the kinds of foes that makes Assault Terminators unnecessary, let alone having them robs each model of two stormbolter shots.  Anything that is tough can be smacked around by power/chain fists well enough.  A whole slew of Tactical Terminators Deathwing Assaulting in with Vengeance Strike on a flank, such that they will have the enemy be in their own way, will put some serious hurt of stuff. If the enemy is lightly armored, sure, the CML is the weapon of choice, as not only it can fire but an accompanying stormbolter as well.  The assault cannon and plasma cannon are about equitable in this case, but that isn't even considering that the plasma cannon has 50% greater range than an assault cannon.  The heavy flamer simply puts the Deathwing too close to the enemy, where they can be more easily overwhelmed with lots of basic multi-shot weapons or close combat attacks, let alone special weapons which have capabilities that Terminators are not all that keen on being exposed to.

 

The point is, with so many 3+ and 2+ saves across all of the armies, one cannot just write off the plasma cannon as a useless weapon.

[Brother Immolator]

Can they fire the stormbolter too? I thought infantry could fire only one of their longrange guns? Or I am missing something?

Never had a stormbolter CML to begin with

IMHO CMLS and Missile launchers in devastator squads are relics of a bygone era (5th) and most people are stuck in their ways. There is no golden choice any more, everything has its place. Ignore that at your own peril

[Onisuzume]

Missile launchers in devastator squads are relics of a bygone era (5th)

Flak missiles anyone?

 

But yeah, anyone would rather have a Mortis for AA duties.

[Brother Immolator]

Missile launchers in devastator squads are relics of a bygone era (5th)

Flak missiles anyone?

But yeah, anyone would rather have a Mortis for AA duties.

Flakk missiles are better in a tac squad. A dev squad needs to use heavier weapons to take out nasty targets. The tac squads are the utility knife of a marine list. The devs are to rain overwhelming firepower and well...devastate targets.

At least thats my take on it and I havent been dissapointed yet

EDIT: Never used FW outside of apoc, never will.