spjaco Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Ideas To Help Space Wolves (and all Space Marines) Kick More A$$: All ballistic skills increase one pt. so that on ANY roll that isn't a one they hit! Face facts these guys are the best for a reason. They were even bred that way. Weapon Skills will increase as well for some Marines. IE Space Wolves, Black Templars and similar ones who seem to thrive at close quarters fighting. Not trying to make it uneven, or even unfair. Just want to play the Space Marines we read about in the books. Which is not the ones we see on the table top. A company or chapter Champion should hit on just about any role with his WS other than a ONE anyways. Increase bolter range for individual shots to 30 inches. For burst firing go all the way out to 18 inches. The idea is to make other players want to get in close to fight the Marines due to the punishment they will take at range. Once they get in tight they quickly realize that wasn't a good idea either. Now I am not saying throw out the codex(s) and do what you want (though some players do that and rely on their opponents not having read the entire BRB to their own advantage). Just have a few friends over and ask them if they would like to play verses the Fluff Space Marine Rules. I think everyone will be surprised at just how much fun it still is. Especially once you make the SM a challenge to play against once again. I did this once for a while with only a standard company of Ultramarines and was nearly undefeated. Chaos(Chaos Undefeated ONCE) and Tyranids(TWICE, hey Ultra's almost lost their home planet to these guys so I rest my case) beat me but both players agreed it was way tougher than it had been. Both stated they actually liked playing a SM player who was more of a challenge. Its a vote thing, give your opponent the option. Learn to play both ways. I bet you wont be disappointed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273510-idea-to-increase-marine-lethality/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hfran Morkai Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 The problem is fluffwise against say a 1500 point non power armoured army you'd be looking at maybe 5-10 individuals. These guys are so powerful in the fluff. I know I wouldn't like to play a game of 40K with ten models, thats what stuff like Necromunda and Kill Team is for. And also in my (among the Wolves) unpopular opinion Grey Hunters are too powerful anyway, especially when compared with the Blood Claws. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273510-idea-to-increase-marine-lethality/#findComment-3339483 Share on other sites More sharing options...
spjaco Posted March 31, 2013 Author Share Posted March 31, 2013 The problem is fluffwise against say a 1500 point non power armoured army you'd be looking at maybe 5-10 individuals. These guys are so powerful in the fluff. I know I wouldn't like to play a game of 40K with ten models, thats what stuff like Necromunda and Kill Team is for. And also in my (among the Wolves) unpopular opinion Grey Hunters are too powerful anyway, especially when compared with the Blood Claws. Interesting. My opponents never wanted to increase the price of the models. I also still took casualties. Tau presented a challenge with all the firepower they could bring to the table. Remember this rule would apply to Chaos Space Marines too! At one point I proposed insta-kills whenever I rolled sixes to hit. They did not like that one..... Can't imagine why. LOL Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273510-idea-to-increase-marine-lethality/#findComment-3339488 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeslikethunder Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Have you been reading the 2nd ed space wolves codex as lot of these are in there . Just not seeing the need for changes but getting our +1 ws back would be nice Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273510-idea-to-increase-marine-lethality/#findComment-3339491 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hfran Morkai Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Well I think GW Australia did "Movie Marines" a few years back, ten man squad with a Rhino and it was 1500 points, each model acted individually and was pretty damn hard. Lascannon would penetrate targets and hit the thing behind at -1 S until it completely dissipated/no more targets, silly stuff like that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273510-idea-to-increase-marine-lethality/#findComment-3339514 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherCaptainArkhan Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Honestly, Marines are powerful enough. And Grey Hunters are the best of the best as it stands. If they aren't powerful enough for you it's because you aren't using them correctly. The things a single squad of Grey Hunters making a well-placed drop pod assault can do under the current rules is absolutely in keeping with their background in 40k. The three main points in your original post are already covered in the main rules. A single GH squad can, properly equipped, lay out devastating firepower, and once the enemy gets up close, we have one of the best basic Troops units in the game in close combat. If I was going to make a change to Marines (all codices) it would be to give all Tactical Marines bolt pistol + close combat weapon and the ability to select a Veteran skill (a la the 3rd ed Chaos codex). Base stats shouldn't be changed. Whilst the Adeptus Astartes are the very best Humanity has to offer, their transhuman status does not infer the kind of superiority giving them WS/BS 5 would imply. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273510-idea-to-increase-marine-lethality/#findComment-3339527 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 24" rapid fire range 0_o , but they would remove drop pods from marine armies right ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273510-idea-to-increase-marine-lethality/#findComment-3339691 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon950 Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 If we do that, then other races/codexs would need it also. Eldar would be crazy hard to hard to hit, orcs/necrons would never die, when demons show up everything that is affected by fear would be useless. And sisters would still be the punching bag of GW. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273510-idea-to-increase-marine-lethality/#findComment-3340331 Share on other sites More sharing options...
spjaco Posted April 1, 2013 Author Share Posted April 1, 2013 Touche brothers. Still our Saga's would definitely be longer, MUCH longer than practicable. Ole Bjorn might not be able to keep up with it all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273510-idea-to-increase-marine-lethality/#findComment-3340546 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 One of the biggest challenges for me, when I actually do get to infrequently play a game these days, is figuring out what not to play with. There are a lot of cool units in our codex, and I've got over 4,000 points worth of painted Space Wolves in my collection. I want to play with everything that I can, and list building mostly consists of figuring out what to leave out this time, rather than figuring out what I should take. If you make Space Wolves/Space Marines/Any Army more effective, then to be fair, you really have to increase its points to account for that advantage. When you increase points, that means you get to take and use less stuff, which equates to less variety in your list and less room to experiment. It doesn't exactly reflect the fluff, but I don't mind that I can still cram 10 units and 60 models into a 2k list (roughly). It means I get to play with more of my toys at the same time. Valerian Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273510-idea-to-increase-marine-lethality/#findComment-3340602 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durfast Spiritwolf Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 As eyeslikethunder suggests, just play 2nd Edition - that's just what you get ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273510-idea-to-increase-marine-lethality/#findComment-3340904 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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