Frag dreadnought & overwatch

[caddila]

Hiya,

 

I usually run a furioso dreadnought with frag cannon and heavy flamer with a drop pod.  Recently a question has arisen at my local club about the rules for overwatch with the frag cannon.

 

As its an assault 2 weapon with template does the wall of death rule apply and if so is it 1d3, 2d3, 1d3 x2 etc?  Also can it overwatch with both the heavy flamer and the frag cannon or is it one or the other of these weapons?

 

Any help would be gratefully appreciated.

 

Thanks.

[Alyssis]

Edit: I started reading some more, and got confused myself..!

[AngelsWithBaals]

I believe it is 1 D3 per weapon.

[knife&fork]

The fragcannon being the only multi shot template weapon in the game and the poor wording of the overwatch rules make things iffy, I'd go with 1D3 until FAQd.

 

Since it's walker you can use all weapons when shooting.

[Ushtarador]

We interpret it that you shoot 2 templates, so you get d3+d3 overwatch shots :D but it's really not clear, I think everyone has his own rules for it.

[Rutzah]

I think the fairest, is what ushtarador and K&F said. d3 for each of your template weapons. If you can convince them though, that you CAN roll 2d3 for the frag cannon thats a different story and you could try it. Although i doubt they are gonna accept it, so yeah d3 per weapon is fine too.

[Ushtarador]

It seems I was a bit unclear, but we  rule the fragcannon to give d3+d3 overwatch shots, as it shoots 2 templates. The heavy flamer of course gives an additional d3.

[dswanick]

"if a Template weapons fires Overwatch, it automatically inflicts D3 hits on the charging unit, resolved at its normal Strength and AP value.", BRB, pg.52

No allowance is made for Template weapons capable of firing multiple shots. So, d3 for the flamer and d3 for the Frag Cannon.

[tomjoad]

It's a multi shot weapon. It is Assault 2, so the frag cannon gets as many shots as a Storm Bolter would, making it 2d3 automatic hits.

[SamaNagol]

@tomjoad: Read the excerpt from the rulebook above. There is no other multi-shot template weapon in existence so there has been no provisions made for them. ALL template weapons fired on Overwatch 1D3 automatic hits regardless. The fact it is Assault 2 is irrelevant during Overwatch

[Xenith]

What Sama said.

 

All template weapons deal 1D3 hits, as that is the rule.

[caddila]

Thanks everyone for the replies. :)

[JamesI]

"if a Template weapons fires Overwatch, it automatically inflicts D3 hits on the charging unit, resolved at its normal Strength and AP value.", BRB, pg.52

No allowance is made for Template weapons capable of firing multiple shots. So, d3 for the flamer and d3 for the Frag Cannon.

As much as I wish to say that dswanick is wrong here, he's not.  While logic says it should be 2d3, that isn't supported by the rules.

[Jolemai]

In addition to this, would you feel that a model armed with two Hand Flamers would be 2xD3 shots when on Overwatch?

[Xenith]

A template weapon does D3 hits.

 

Two template weapons do 2D3.

 

If the 'pistolier' rule says that both pistols can be fired all the time, then you can.

[dswanick]

In addition to this, would you feel that a model armed with two Hand Flamers would be 2xD3 shots when on Overwatch?

"All models with two pistols can fire both in the Shooting phase.", BRB, pg.52

No, by RAW,a model armed with two pistols may not fire both during Overwatch in the enemies Assault phase. Therefore, such models only get 1d3 Wall of Death hits.

[knife&fork]

Is the wording the same for MCs and walkers?

[dswanick]

Is the wording the same for MCs and walkers?

For MCs, yes.  Normally models are limited to firing one weapon per phase, but MCs have an allowance to fire two in their Shooting phase.

For Walkers, no.  Vehicles can fire all of their weapons (but are prohibited from firing Overwatch) at reduced effectiveness if they moved, while Walkers can fire all of their weapons even after Moving and get an allowance to fire Overwatch.

 

Although it should be noted that the rules for Overwatch state that it "is resolved like a normal shooting attack", so most groups will probably play it that if you can fire multiple weapons in the Shooting phase you can also do so in the Assault phase Overwatch shooting.

[knife&fork]

 

 

Although it should be noted that the rules for Overwatch state that it "is resolved like a normal shooting attack", so most groups will probably play it that if you can fire multiple weapons in the Shooting phase you can also do so in the Assault phase Overwatch shooting.

 

Then I don't really see why it would be RAW to disallow gunslingers in overwatch. 

[dswanick]

 

 

 

Although it should be noted that the rules for Overwatch state that it "is resolved like a normal shooting attack", so most groups will probably play it that if you can fire multiple weapons in the Shooting phase you can also do so in the Assault phase Overwatch shooting.

 

Then I don't really see why it would be RAW to disallow gunslingers in overwatch. 

Because the RAW clearly states that Gunslinger may be used in the Shooting phase, but makes no mention of the Assault phase.  And RAW is less clear on what "is resolved like a normal shooting attack" is.  It clearly has exceptions that a "normal shooting attack" don't (hitting on a 6 rather than the normal target based on BS, can't cause Pinning, etc).  It's the same old debate over "counts as", where the designers expect you to divine their intent for how exactly "like" a normal shooting attack it is.

 

**shruggs** Like I said, it isn't clear RAW for a model to fire multiple weapons other than in the Shooting phase.  It is pretty clearly RAI that the designers would want it this way - but who am I to judge intent?

[Riggs]

Yeah just looked it up in the book, the 'and so on' makes the rule very opened ended imo. In a turny I'd ask a judge, at your game store I'd get a vote.

[Cronhour]

It makes sense to me to get 2d3 hits per frag cannon, after all a multi shot weapon fires multiple times during overwatch does it not? I think the argument to say it should only get 1d3 is just as strong as saying overwatch is resolved as a normal shooting attack and wall of death allows templates to fire during overwatch as an exclusion to templates firing as snapshots, it makes no statements to limit the number of shots the weapon has. Make your case and if there's no consensus do the gw roll imo. Unless it's been faq'd by now off.

[Xenith]

Overwatch is snap shots, and normally template weapons are not allowed to fire. Wall of Death is a specific exception.

 

A template weapon inflicts d3 hits.

 

Your dread inflics d3 hits for each template weapon it has.

[ElectricPaladin]

I would agree that until it's FAQed, the fairest way to play it is 1d3 for the frag cannon. I think that the 2d3 interpretation carries water, but it's not a hideous nerf and the rules are weird, so it's best to wait for GW to get around to fixing it.

[GrunTeufel]

Can dreads fire two of their template weapons (hflame and frag cannon) during overwatch? I thought you had to chose which weapon you are going to shoot with.