Honor guard or independent priest

[terminatorAM]

Could the sanguinary initiate in an Honor Guard squad fill the roll of a priest taken by himself? The main thing to consider is the proximity to this priest and other squads.

 

I've previously run a priest who joined my assault squad along with my librarian in 1000pnt games. This has been easy to manage as it's just one unit moving together. Now I'm building my army up to 1500pnts and am planning on replacing the elite priest with the one in the Honor Guard. They will have jump packs and x4 plasma guns and be joined by the libby to provide support for the rest of the army and mostly be shooting so avoiding cc.

 

Does anyone have any good tactics or know of any pitfalls I'd come across by using this squad to support 2 other RAS squads? Also, for those that have used the 4 plasma honor guard, how to you find it as a unit? Would the 6 man size (including libby) be a liability in even higher point games like 2000pnts?

[Memento Of Prospero]

the problem with the honourguard initiate is that he is much harder to protect, and much less flexible as he is part of his unit. The priest also gets weapons options.

[Brother Chryseth]

I agree with the above.

Also, keep in mind the points cost for an Honor Guard packed to the gills with special weapons. Kinda pricey at that point level.

It's worth restating that the priest can take some pretty nifty weapons options, I'm personally a fan of either a Power Sword, or Combi-plasma.

Just my $.02. :)

 

[dadieau]

One of the things that gives value to an Honor Guard is the Champion. You pretty much get a free WS5 with the purchase of a power weapon. I hate to waste that stuff. It's the same reason I am a big proponent of giving the Sanguinary Priest a power weapon.

 

I'd say fully a 1/3 of my games a priest will change units for one reason or another. As much as you are going to pay for the Honor Guard to have them miss some opportunity in order for the initiate to support other units just isn't cost effective.

[Father Mapple]

The problem with the Honor Guard is the 5 man person size, especially if you put your librarian in there. It's going to be a fire magnet, and just isn't as resilient as putting the priest or librarian in a 10 man assault squad, who are all receiving any buffs or FNP bubbles as well. While the Honor Guard will have a 5+ cover save by keeping the assault squad in front of it, you don't kill 3+ armor by lobbing single S8+ hits at them (which is when cover is better than FNP), but tons of smaller shots, FNP or no.

So, the 2 Assault Squads with Priest and Libby in the rank behind is usually the way to go, so the front Assault squad can provide cover saves behind them, and with flamers (how I run them) soak up charges for the behind IC squad to finish off.

 

If you split the ICs into separate squads, as I used to, if you put the libby in front, then they absorb the AP2 shots since they have FNP but no cover because the warlord is a VP now. If you put the priest up front, they soak up the S8+ shots because people are trying to negate the FNP. If you put them both in the back, then they get both FNP and cover, and they buff the front squad, who can set up charges for the 2nd squad to "pick" where their assault will land since the enemy is already engaged.

[Father Mapple]

Also, the point costs are bad, especially for the plasma squad. 60pts of plasma, plus 165 for Honorguard with jump packs, is 225, the same cost as a fully equipped 10 man assault squad with 2 meltaguns and power weapon. You don't have the priest yet, but for 75 points, you add 3-4 wounds to that assault squad, assuming you get FNP against all shots.

 

Think of it this way: the more bodies your single priest covers, the more of a good investment he is.

 

For 22 bodies, or 23 wounds, (20 Assault, Libby, Priest, totaling 650) your priest provides the equivalent to a statistical 7-8 more wounds from FNP, for a total of 30-31 wounds on average. He also provides TONS more wounds in combat because everyone is S5 on the charge for all 66 attacks (3 per assault squad marine, -4 from meltas, +2 from sergeant, 4 each librarian and priest).

 

For 16 bodies, or 17 wounds (10 Assault, Libby, 5 Honor Guard + plasmaguns, totaling 575) your priest provides 5-6 wounds more statistically from FNP, for a total of 22-23 wounds. This seems to bring them up to the NON-FNP 20 Assault configuration, but you're also losing out on lots of attacks, since you only have 48 in this set up (3 per assault marine, -2 meltas, +1 from sergeant, Honor Guard have 3 on charge, 4 from Libby).

 

So Essentially, you're losing 8 wounds on average and 18 attacks for that 75 points in savings. You can't buy enough assault marines to make up for the difference (6 marines needed for the attacks and wounds with FNP, at 18 each = 108).

 

I don't know if quadruple plasmaguns are worth that.

[Ushtarador]

Also, ASM are scoring and honor guard is not :/

[JamesI]

My experience says I prefer the independent priest to the Honor Guard.  I can never seem to get my Honor Guard Novitiate where I want him for FNP bubbles.

[BassMattJaxx]

I've run the plasmaguard with a libby attached, in support of 2 x 10man assault squads a few times when I first started blood angels this edition, and to be honest, I found it really lackluster.  It seems good on paper, but for the FNP bubble to work, you're clumping 26 marines together, which makes your movement phase fairly one dimensional. Granted, that can be the same for a priest attached to an assault squad. The plasma's backed up by a libby with divination are great, no questions there, but if they don't nuke the ap2 target that they just tried to rapid fire, then they'll most likely die next round to a counter charge. (ie termies)

 

I can see it being a good idea in theory, since most players these days are taking only 1 priest anyway, so you may as well fill a free hq slot, and free up the 3rd elites slot (assuming you're taking furiso's etc.)

 

Perhaps quad plasma isn't the way to go.

I've toyed with the idea of just giving them boltguns, and just using them as an alternate to a bike squad.

 

I'd not run the Libby with the honorguard either way, it's a just too much of a threat, and as stated will draw a lot of firepower.

[Xenith]

The plasma's backed up by a libby with divination are great, no questions there, but if they don't nuke the ap2 target that they just tried to rapid fire, then they'll most likely die next round to a counter charge. (ie termies)

 

If only unleash rage worked for a game turn. Preferred enemy with plasma weaponry would be awesome.