Warp Talons success stories?

[Macbeefin]

I've heard Warp Talons are far from fantastic. However, i love how the models look and am contemplating picking some up, and obviously I'd like to use these in games as well, despite their reputation.

 

My question is, what do you have to do to make these guys effective on the board? How often do they end up being useful in games?

 

Thanks in advance 

[DavidKits]

I have one success story and it was the only time I really got to use em. a friend of mine lent me a unit to just give a body guard to my Sorcerer with a jump pack in a campaign game we were playing. I put them all in reserve to deep strike in hopes they would do some damage or act as a good distraction against the Guard Player I was up again. turned 3 rolled around and I had this nice opening right in the middle of it was either 3 or 4 guard squads... I dropped em down and managed to land on target causing a blind test to all of the them. half of em failed their test which just messed up my opponents battle plan somehow and with that nice distraction I got my squads of regular marines across easier and actually survived  what could have been a punishing volley considering my units had to break across open ground. my squads got into the guardsmen the follow round and just wrecked face.

 

 also my sorcerer I had to just try it out took the pyromancy spells and got that nova one and the fiery form at which point after landing I turned on fiery then nova'ed and managed to make one of the units that was unaffected by the blind test run away due to casualties and the other lost a couple of guys but one of them was a plasma gunner that helped me keep my guys alive a bit longer. by the end of the game the talons were all killed don't get me wrong but they did get to wreck a couple of guard units with the help of the sorcerer before being gunned down.

 

 I suppose my run is a one in a hundred chance on my first try but hey *shrugs* I won't argue when the dice just have a round of just liking me... ^.^;; my buddy almost never uses them sadly anymore...

[gammaxj]

The only time that I have seen Warp Talons used effectively was when a friend ran an all foot army, with around 50 models in 1500 points.  He kept them screened by his other units, and ended up massacring a couple of blood angels units, including a death company squad and an assualt squad.  So I guess it is more target saturation, hiding them, and basing your list around them than anything else.

[zyl-]

In short, they are best against MeQ units that are not in cover. Depending on your meta, that may or may not happen too often. They would be truely hilarious against blood angels imo, but largely tragic against orcs. Also, the blinding trick is unpredictable both because it's just an init test and because we don't deepstrike to target well. It seems generally true that one does not deep strike with them.

[derpasaurus]

I saw a miniwargaming.com batrep where ... Dave, I think, TRASHED some boyz with a squad. That's the only time I've ever seen them used. I keep meaning to let my raptors play make-believe and try them out, just out of curiosity, but I'm already convinced they won't do well under many circumstances, as their rules on paper are just... trash. IF I could get them delivered, and someone's not buttoned down in cover... but that's 2 unlikely things in this edition.

[Macbeefin]

Given I'm usually playing against either vanilla SM or Eldar I prob give them a couple of proxy runs first. Maybe use them as an interceptor unit for enemy infantry squads moving between objectives.

[John117]

They are T4, 3+/5++ and 30 points each, they are very powerful in close combat against all but the toughest/most heavily armored troops. In my opinion they are under-rated. They require a level of finesse that perhaps a lot of players are not accustomed to. The majority of gaming experience has been with Eldar (Full of powerful, expensive, but very squishy infantry) and I find the Warp Talons are very reminiscent of an Eldar unit. If you can get them into melee safely you should have a field day, I mean AP3 and SHRED will really hurt.

 

The trick is getting them there, and deep striking is NOT the way to go. I can't stress this enough. 

 

I've had a lot of success with these guys, keeping them back, keeping them hidden and waiting for the opportune moment to beak cover and strike.

 

Keep them secret! Keep them safe! ;-)

[Vesper]

The main issue they have is their lack of grenades (and their cost).

[Warsmith Aznable]

The trick is getting them there, and deep striking is NOT the way to go. I can't stress this enough.

 

I agree with this. The Warpflame Strike ability suggests an intended way to deploy them, but who in their right mind is going to attempt to come down within 6" of a target without a way to make scattering less of a threat? I get the feeling that they were thinking of having us use a Chaos Daemons unit in a combo, but I strongly maintain that any unit should be effective entirely within the context of its own army.

 

But since we're talking about it...

 

If a Daemon unit has an Icon from the C:CD then Warp Talons will only scatter d6" if they are targeting a landing within 6" of that Chaos Daemons squad. So there exists the possibility of using a fast unit like Plague Drones, Bloodcrushers, or Seekers of Slaanesh to run an Icon down the field for Warp Talons to home in on for a safer Deep Strike.

 

The Skull Cannon of Khorne has something called Dreadskulls that puts a token on any unit it hits. Until the end of the next Assault Phase any friendly unit doesn't suffer an Initiative penalty for charging through difficult terrain against a unit that has a Dreaskull token on it. It's a 36" range Large Blast fired with BS 5 delivered by a 12/12/10 HP3 Chariot, so there's a good chance of getting a hit where you need it when you need. This would allow Warp Talons to move in concert with the Skull Cannon and clean up any targets it hits. The cannon itself is S8, so it should put wounds on any MEQ squad it hits, as well. Even without VotLW or a Mark, the Talons should carve their way through any MEQ they manage to fight at Initiative, so this could be a brutal combo.

 

Any thoughts on this?

[Emperors Immortals]

Hadn't even thought of that actually, but it sounds great, van anyone playtest this ?

[TalonofHatred]

Get a unit of Chaos Marines or Cultists. Get em stuck in with as many mobs of power armoured (or worse) chumps that you can and hope they last. If they do fly the Warp Talons in and watch the bloodbath commence. But yeah NEVER deep strike these guys, ugh.

[Agent Purple]

 

 

The trick is getting them there, and deep striking is NOT the way to go. I can't stress this enough.

I agree with this. The Warpflame Strike ability suggests an intended way to deploy them, but who in their right mind is going to attempt to come down within 6" of a target without a way to make scattering less of a threat? I get the feeling that they were thinking of having us use a Chaos Daemons unit in a combo, but I strongly maintain that any unit should be effective entirely within the context of its own army.

 

But since we're talking about it...

 

If a Daemon unit has an Icon from the C:CD then Warp Talons will only scatter d6" if they are targeting a landing within 6" of that Chaos Daemons squad. So there exists the possibility of using a fast unit like Plague Drones, Bloodcrushers, or Seekers of Slaanesh to run an Icon down the field for Warp Talons to home in on for a safer Deep Strike.

 

The Skull Cannon of Khorne has something called Dreadskulls that puts a token on any unit it hits. Until the end of the next Assault Phase any friendly unit doesn't suffer an Initiative penalty for charging through difficult terrain against a unit that has a Dreaskull token on it. It's a 36" range Large Blast fired with BS 5 delivered by a 12/12/10 HP3 Chariot, so there's a good chance of getting a hit where you need it when you need. This would allow Warp Talons to move in concert with the Skull Cannon and clean up any targets it hits. The cannon itself is S8, so it should put wounds on any MEQ squad it hits, as well. Even without VotLW or a Mark, the Talons should carve their way through any MEQ they manage to fight at Initiative, so this could be a brutal combo.

 

Any thoughts on this?

Hellcannon burns allied HS slot - no grinder.

 

Talons burn CSM fast slot - 1 less bike/heldrake unit.

 

Deamons can get tons of AP3 attacks in troops/elite - talons are unnecessary to get the damage in this combo, so this makes it even less worth it to waste FS slot on them.

 

Most units ignore blind 2/3. Even tau with bad I can take a token drone to get I4 if this starts to become a problem for them, and all their suits ignore blind anyways. IG blob will test off I4/5 from embedded character, even with icon, probably won't get it far up enough the field to get more than a couple units with the radius anyways. DS means you don't get to melee until turn 3 at best, turn 4 if you fail a reserves roll....

 

Warp talons are also completely shut down if someone charges them with a 2+ save unit or a walker.

 

I mean you can try and use CD synergy to force them to work, but for what you get, is it really worth the effort? At this point, at the army building stage we've invested 2 fast (icon/talons) & 1 HS to get a one-time 6" blind bubble at half scatter, and maybe some AP3 attacks at initiative if the talon's don't get gunned down or assaulted out (or tarpitted by walker/2+save/inv save unit). Combo payout is too little return for too much invested IMO. Better off with heldrake/grinder. Is talon unit even really that much more effective at killing 3+ units than baledrake anyways?

[Warsmith Aznable]

I mean you can try and use CD synergy to force them to work, but for what you get, is it really worth the effort? At this point, at the army building stage we've invested 2 fast (icon/talons) & 1 HS to get a one-time 6" blind bubble at half scatter, and maybe some AP3 attacks at initiative if the talon's don't get gunned down or assaulted out (or tarpitted by walker/2+save/inv save unit). Combo payout is too little return for too much invested IMO. Better off with heldrake/grinder. Is talon unit even really that much more effective at killing 3+ units than baledrake anyways?

 

These are two different ideas, so it would only involve 1FA & 1 allied FA/HS, but I get what you're saying. But what if someone wants an army build that doesn't rely on flyers? This is an increasing likelihood as more armies are updated with new AA options. Then you can give up a FA slot to something like Warp Talons.

 

If a 2+ unit is chasing Warp Talons, that might be an ideal situation anyway. They'd have to work to catch them, and while they're doing that everything else in your army gets to do their thing for one more turn. A high strength ranged weapon or weight-of-fire unit concentrating on Warp Talons does the same thing. Walkers? They will either be hiding from CSM anti-tank weapons or appearing in our own backfield, so either way should be avoidable to a unit with jump packs.

 

 

Warp Talons are obviously not as good as other options. I am just trying to find a way, as you say, to force them to work better.

 

I'm also trying to figure out what Warp Talons were designed for, and it may be this:

1. A fast moving, 3+/5++ unit to draw fire from other units.
2. A bundle of AP3 re-rolled wounds to keep MEQ from risking open areas in the midfield, making their movement predictable.
3. To punish an enemy who ignores them by attacking targets of opportunity.

I love my Warp Talon models, and want to find a way to make them work. I'm a realist, however, and have magnets in their backs to make them other things than Warp Talons.