Insight and advice vs Tau

[Boomkapow]

Played them for the first time today. Got destroyed. Mech is the way to go. They are ace at anti-infantry. less so on anti-tank. If you take a stormraven, beware of riptide with interceptor and nova charged ion accelerator. S8 AP2 is bad for a clumped up group of 11 death company. lost 8 before my turn was over. Have a new list that is mech instead of jump that I will try on tuesday vs. same tau player. I'll try to remember to post on how it goes.

 

On another note, however, the stormraven itself killed 22 fire warriors and took 2 wounds off the riptide. Stormtalons may not be so bad against them.

[Taranis]

Any chance for an approximate armylist for the both of you and the mission/deployment? Notning big just an overview. And perhaps the three best units per armylist listed.

[Brother Xeones]

I have the codex so I will try to add a few insights. Excuse the post length. Scroll down to the TL:DNR section my summation for combating the Tau.

• Riptide --is scary, but it's only BS3 without markerlight support. Also, the ion accelerator can only fire three S7 AP2 shots at aircraft which is not too scary for a Stormraven. The heavy burst cannon version is more dangerous v. aircraft, but is reliant on rending results and has less range so might be avoided. At WS2, even as a MC with 3 base attacks, you should be able to tar pit it to lock it down and keep it from firing.

• Ion Weapons --particularly the ones on the Riptide and Hammerheads are dangerous to troops in their alternate fire modes and will eat MEQ quite handily --especially with a few markerlights to strip out your cover save. Short of transports or avoiding LoS completely, spreading out is your best bet for minimizing the damage to your scoring units.

• Markerlights --Pathfinders or squadrons of marker drones with a controlling crisis suit should be priority targets. Crippling these units will drop the overall effectiveness of a Tau force by quite a bit. Pathfinders have dropped to a 5+ armor save so getting some flamers in close will make them disappear in a hurry despite all of their fancy drones and gear.

• Skimmers --With the loss of both targeting arrays to boost their BS by +1 and their loss of multi-trackers to fire like fast vehicles, BA actually have the edge over Tau in mobility and firing on-the-move. Tau still have Disruption Pods for an improved cover/jink save but the cost of that system increased significantly. Overall, their skimmers are still somewhat dangerous and fairly rugged, but will not be able to put out the quality fire that they used to.

• Flyers --Ours are better. The Tau flyers are not DA bad nor are they the newest Helldrake or Vendetta, but are only AV11/10/10 and possess only two single-shot (S8 seekers) above S7. They shouldn't pose a significant threat to our Stormravens. Similarly, none of the other weapons they possess will ignore a 3+ armor save. These units, while capable of doing some damage, are probably not going to be your top priority.

• Broadsides --These guys have changed a lot since the last codex. They no longer have S10 railguns so their capabilities against AV13+ have greatly diminished. However, the missile variants will shred lighter armor like rhinos, razorbacks, and landspeeders. They can also take skyfire in either variant so fliers should probably have a healthy respect for them.

• Crisis suits --Essentially, little has changed with these guys. They've gotten a few tweaks and some new wargear gimmicks, but they are still the mobile weapons platforms that they've always been. Krak missiles and melta guns will still be handy for ID'ing them. However, don't be surprised to find one model with wargear that boosts its stats to T5/Sv2+. With the loss of the number of railguns the Tau can field in their heavy support slots, expect to see more 18" fusion blasters to be carried on tank-hunting crisis teams. Getting into melta range will mean they should also be in charge range to something in your force, so don't be too shy about charging.

• Stealthsuits --They've gained a little more firepower and can also take homing beacons for minimizing DS scatter and other gear for reserves shenanigans. They also have 18" infiltrating melta, so watch your armored assets as well. Due to these subtle buffs, they might see more popularity. If any of you still run Flamestorm Baals, feel free to roast these annoying little infiltrators with your scouting, cover-ignoring AP:3 flame templates. Redeemers also work for this.

• Firewarriors --They are a touch cheaper than they were before, but their real notable features are their shot buffs from Ethereals and Fireblades. Add in the ability all tau have to add their overwatch to nearby units and the fact that they all get defensive grenades as standard and they are at least a respectable opponent. They'll still fall apart in CC like wet tissue paper, but getting into CC unscathed will be more difficult than it used to be. An additional note in CC: EMP grenades are now full-fledged Haywire grenades and while you might not see them all that often, Fire Warriors can get these fairly cheaply so be careful with charging in with Furiosos --Also don't forget that a unit with defensive grenades has stealth if you shoot at them from less than 8" away.

• Kroot --Kroot have changed quite a bit. They're no longer worth anything in CC having lost out in strength, toughness, and attacks compared to their previous version. What they've gained is a drop in cost, and the ability to take sniper ammo for their guns for extremely cheap. They will die quickly enough, but with the potential of 40 sniper shots, you'll want to deal with them before all of your Sanguinary priests and/or other ICs start disappearing. Also, due to a slight change in the rules, expect more people to start taking Krootox with their rapid-fire autocannon-equivalent weapons.

TL:DNR

So what are the big things to take away from this?

First, Tau are still bad at CC --more so than before in some ways-- Just expect to lose some guys to their overwatch tricks. Even though Tau units can overwatch for nearby units being charged, they can still (as a general rule) only overwatch once per phase so if you can assault multiple units across their line, you'll have fewer overwatch shots coming toward any one assault unit.

Second, since Tau can no longer spam railguns in broadside teams, their ability to effectively deal with AV13/14 at range has been somewhat diminished. Considering the BA ability to take both AV13 and 14 in fairly large numbers, they'll be generally forced to bring melta units in close to pick up that slack. That too will suit BAs just fine. You have equal or better mobility to the Tau and getting that close to you means easy charges.

Third, in general, their are very few units in the Tau list that can deal equally well with flyers AND AV13/14. I'm predicting that most tau lists will be good at taking on one or the other, but it will be tough to be good against both. Broadsides and Skyrays are both decent AA, but take up slots that could be used for rail cannon Hammerheads. Similarly, crisis suits can take an (expensive) skyfire upgrade, but lack the range and speed to make skyfire melta a threat and will therefore likely need to choose either melta weapons or skyfire. Only the Riptide seems likely to be able to deal with both types of threats (at least with the heavy burst cannon form), and they're likely to be a priority target anyway so don't feel bad about focus-firing on them.

Fourth and finally, shoot the markerlight carriers. They remove your cover in only two hits as well as boosting BS during Snapfire, Overwatch, and normal shooting. This edition places even more importance on markerlights in many ways so take out the flashlights early in order to hamstring the tau shooting gimmicks.

Good luck to you all!

[knife&fork]

Can markerlights still cause grounding test on FMCs?

[Skraal]

Beware of Broadsides with twin-linked high-yield missile pods which along with their accompanying missile drones tend to put out 24(?) STR 7 shots! Easily enough to glance AV13 to death and make the skies a lot more dangerous thanks to their ability to take velocity trackers which enables them to choose to have Skyfire. This is deadly especially when they stand on a Skyshield giving them a 4++ save and working out to be 45 points cheaper than shield drones.

 

Plus now that markerlights can mark for markerlights there could be a fair amount of shenanigans! Say, a Skyray uses it's markerlights and Skyfire rule to put two marks on a flyer now a unit of Pathfinders can shoot and (should) land 4 hits allowing more units to hit the target.

 

Brother Xeones is correct in how to deal with them shoot on the way in and wear down multiple units to be assaulted then get suck in! Feel No Pain should be a fantastic lifesaver and well worth it's points before we get to unleash the Emperor's fury upon the Tau.

 

Though if I were Smurf player I'd advance to rapid fire range and shoot it out!

[Brother Xeones]

Beware of Broadsides with twin-linked high-yield missile pods which along with their accompanying missile drones tend to put out 24(?) STR 7 shots! Easily enough to glance AV13 to death and make the skies a lot more dangerous thanks to their ability to take velocity trackers which enables them to choose to have Skyfire. This is deadly especially when they stand on a Skyshield giving them a 4++ save and working out to be 45 points cheaper than shield drones.

 

The Skyshield is an interesting idea --and one I'd not heard of nor considered before now. However, 6 shield drones for a full contingent of broadsides is actually cheaper than a Skyshield. Plus, they'd lose out on the extra wounds the drones provide. Additionally, its actually the same price as purchasing personal shield generators for each of the broadsides --giving them the same benefit of the landing pad without forcing them to stay in one place. The only way the skyshield becomes economical over other options is:

 

1) if the Tau player were to take multiple units of broadsides and stick them on the landing pad.

2) if the Tau player wanted to take the missile drones instead of shield drones but still wanted the security of a 4++ save for the whole squad.

 

It's true that you should have a healthy respect for the Missile Pod version of the broadside. They're essentially mini rifleman dreads that come in units. However, the missile drones are not really that great at BS2 unless you add markerlight support --at least not where AV13 is concerned. Even with the full 24 shots, the Tau player would need an additional two markerlight hits to boost the squad to the point that it could strip 3 hull points from an AV13 vehicle in one shooting phase. So that's a minimum of 267 points for the unit + 75 for the landing pad + the cost of the markerlight unit in order to kill one AV13 vehicle. It CAN be done, but its not efficient and if this unit is targeting your AV13 vehicles, you've either done something right, or the Tau play has done something wrong. This unit is far deadlier to flyers and light vehicles, but in a pinch, it's got enough shots to use against infantry (add in an additional 12 twin-linked S5 AP5 shots for the SMS here) or to strip out hull points off of AV13.

 

Daisy-chaining markerlights Is a new and interesting option for Tau and allows for a lot of new tactics like the one you mentioned. Really though, if you can focus on eliminating the large markerlight units like Pathfinders or Markerdrone squadrons as I suggested in my previous post, the daisy chain tactic can be shut down quickly.

[Taranis]

A thing to consider when armybuilding is the fact that we are AV 13 only on the front. Flank and rear are far more vulnerable than the front.

Massed vehicles isn't necessarily the only answer.

 

I'm starting to think that massed drop pods with multiple versatile units might be sensible. Tacticals, sternguard, honour guard. Some for even 2+ saves and flamers for as much as possible... And melta bombs for vehicles. But then that leaves weaknesses against so much else. Especially reserve roll manipulation.

[The Yncarne]

Glad to see my thinking wasn't too far from reality. if i had the cash i'd be buying fragiosos, drop pods and some heavy bolters.