Dark Angels got new stuff - but is anybody buying it?

[Upstartes]

So, I don't intend this to be another thread complaining about how sucky model X or Y is or ranting about the competitiveness of the new codex. I play very casual games with friends, so I don't really care if DA will or won't be "top tier." Rather, I just wanted to describe my odd experience getting the new codex and building up a force to go with it, and how things went very differently than I expected.

 

I was sort of starting from scratch, except that I had a handful of old bikes and some land raiders. I split some Dark Vengeance boxes with a friend and then had terminators, tac marines, and more bikes. What I expected to happen was that when the new codex came out, I'd end up spending money on a new DA flyer - I love what flyers add to the game, and after seeing the coolness that my Chaos buddy got in his codex I was anxiously waiting for my turn. I also heard the rumors of funky speeders, and I expected some money would go there too. Pie-plate plasma speeder? Yes please. The codex seemed prime to provide brand new toys that would be interesting, fun, and unique to the Dark Angels.

 

Then I got the codex. Since then I've bought more terminators, more bikes, and a box of veterans. Sure, I'm building up "new" units - black knights and deathwing knights - but they're still basically cool versions of the same old stuff. I have not spent a dime on the really new toys. The darkshroud came close, but in the end I decided to keep filling out my ranks, thinking maybe I'll pick up a darkshround later. Maybe. My dreams of a cool DA flyer or a scary speeder just turned out not to be worth the money compared to other things I could buy. Instead, I'm modeling up some allies to get my flyer fun.

 

I want to talk to someone at GW and explain to them how screwy this is. Not in a whiny "I can't win with this crappy unit" way, but just to say, "you really dropped the ball on this. I was primed to drop big bucks on new DA toys, and instead I'm spending my money on ebay to get a few new things here and there." While I'm pleased that the DA codex isn't yet another exercise in codex-creep-to-sell-models, I'm disappointed that the cool new stuff just isn't worth bothering with. I'm also disappointed that what could have been an awesome fluffy Ravenwing combined-arms force: bikes, special speeders, and flyers, is in practice mostly just bikes and better bikes, and the same old speeders.

 

While the new codex offers lots of new flexibility and new worthwhile units, it's just plain odd that the new big toys are the least worthwhile parts of the army. I still find myself shaking my head when I get some money to spend and I still can't convince myself that I should buy one of those cool-looking new models instead of yet more elite grunts.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

i'm afraid, and I say that with the most respect.. that you don't have the mindset turned into a "beer and pretzels game". If you really play just friendly games and you're not worried about winning or losing, then you can buy a flyer or plasma-speeder and just enjoy their battlefield performance, good or bad. Again i stress i mean no disrespect but you had that shred of though that even in friendly games makes you want to win. Perfectly normal.. we all have, thing is you have to counter it by adding the "I want to win this because it's an uphill battle" and/or "I want to field cool models and care not about the result".

That's why I started an ork army.. because win or lose I would have fun and I could just field cool models and whacky conversions without caring for the result.. I wanted to win, but if I lost I was happy just the same. That  time playing orks that way made me a better player and a better person, because i learned how to lose, a thing I had much problems while playing with the Emperor's finest... Nowadays I can just make lists with rule of cool and enjoy the game even if i lose... I just want to see cool models in action and I love fighting uphill battles, makes victories (the few ;) ) taste even sweeter.

Just my two cents.. i still don't own any flyer because first i want to basic building blocks done and personally I'm not a big fan of the flyers or the new speeders looks.

[Nasse]

I can't add much to the discussion since I am not quite clear on what's powerful and what's not, to me the fliers seem just fine, but I will be following this topic with interest.

I can say, however, that I will never ever buy that new speeder model. What the heck was the sculptor/designer thinking?! That preacher's podium is the ultimate in stupid 40k vehicle design.

[Upstartes]

I guess I understand where you're coming from, Lucifer. In some ways, it comes down to a decision about spending money. I guess it's a spectrum though. If the Nephilim cost 300 points for what it does and cost $120 for what it looks like, I don't think there'd be as strong of a case to be made for, "well, Upstartes, you're not really taking things as casually as you think you are." So, there's a point where the cost in dollars and points moves a model into that area of "ok, it's not as great as it ought to be, but I like it, and I'm gonna buy it and play it anyway." As it stands, the Neph, Talon, and LSV all still seem to live on the other side of that line. Maybe that's just my take, and maybe it's my take because I am a "competitive friendly player" as opposed to a more purely beer & pretzels player (though, I challenge this, because I drink a lot of beer and eat a lot of chips when I'm getting competitive with my friends ;) ).

 

And it's an interesting mix of factors. If the Nephilim cost $50, I probably would have bought one and been playing it. But at $75, I want it to bring more to my experience than what it does. After all, I'm the one in other threads that championed the notion that 2 Nephilims might actually make for a compelling, fun, and respectable list to play among friends. But when I started thinking about paying $150 to build that list for myself, I ended up buying more bikes and terminators.

 

I think GW missed a golden opportunity. If the Neph had been just a tad beefier in its stats, not a game-changer, but something that really made you think about whether you wanted to field it or a squad of black knights, more would have been sold. Or if the kit had been cheap enough that it was worth buying just for "rule of cool." If the LSV had been just a little cheaper in its points cost, casual players might really wonder "do I want a Vindicator, or would I rather have an LSV?"

 

And Nasse - if I every field a Darkshroud, you can bet there will not be a gunner up front in that pulpit. That model will definitely get the conversion treatment up there.

[Bryan Blaire]

I bought the Neph/Dark Talon kit just fine. I even have ideas for potential conversions with assault cannons and Cyclone launchers (probably made of Typhoons) if I ever get the wild hair to actually use non-Codex solutions like allied Space Marines to make the model into a Storm Talon.

 

Where are you getting your stats for how few models were sold?

[Gillyfish]

Hmm, well I bought the Nephilim prior to release because I loved the model. I have subsequently bought the RW and DW command squad boxes. I may eventually get one of the new speeders, but I'm not keen on the model, so it may just stay in the shop. I've been collecting for years and I'm in the enviable position where I have multiples of most units. Dark Knights and Deathwing Knights are going to get built and added to, but other than that I don't actually need too much more, so I tend to buy only if I love the model or if it adds something to the force.

 

So I'm not sure whether that proves or disproves your theory. I don't tend to get that many games nowadays (hoping to rectify that) so I guess the models are more interesting than performance at present.

[Upstartes]

Well, I can't really say whether other folks are buying or not buying the models. My thread title may be a misnomer. I was more interested in sharing my personal experience of expecting that the new codex would lead me to buy the new toys, but it in fact did not. If I'm in the minority, that's fine. It's just odd when a new codex doesn't inspire folks to get the new stuff - though maybe it's just not inspiring me to buy the new stuff.

 

Though it has inspired me to build all kinds of infantry and bikes, which is fun as all get-out to me. So maybe I shouldn't complain.

[Brother Immolator]

The ravenwing command and the deathwing boxes are the two kits we all dreamed and dreaded for. And I have to say that GW dilivered, oh yes they did!

I am in all honestly regretting more and more buying the GK terminator box back then, at least I got a libby and a few whackos out of it.

 

The speeder...Now thats an interesting one, I hated it with a passion...For some reason I love it now. Its ugly, its stupid but....I dont know... The thought that I can field a grossly enlarged speeder with two plasma cannons rigged atop it somehow turns me on. Most of the time it dies too but I found it to beter than my vindicators. At least it gets to shoot a couple of times!

 

Flyers...Now IMHO flyers are like Forge World rules. The game is not ready for them as is and I never seen their inclussion with a good eye. Be they good or bad at preformance they are always going to get out of my lists and display cabinets that is. Not that ours are not cool looking mind you (they are the most sexy plane the playschool sculptors ever made) I just like to pretend that flyers dont exist in the 40k battlefields, just as they didnt in the past.

 

The biggest screw ups were belial and asmodai. Those two were horrible. At least as one of our brothers proved with a spare foot and an amputation he can be salvaged...

[Master Avoghai]

My best friend is also the owner of the shop where I usually buy my models (and also a SW player aaaargh), he really felt sorry with what GW made with our old codex and he wanted to make me a present to celebrate my rebirth... He let me choose one of the new toy we got and I chose the flyer. Mostly for the sake of cool as I didn't have the rules at that time.

 

I've converted BK from the DV set and my next puchase will be the Shroud as it's a blessing for my RW force.

 

But for this I will do like I did for the Talon/nephilim : magnetizing everything in order to lowering the cost of the box set : with one single purchase I can play each variant.

 

For the knights I'll wait... My wallet starts screaming but they'll join my 40 termis now :lol: