Do Astartes have memories of their childhoods?

[A D-B]

Great Crusade, Heresy, and Chaos Marines? Sure, often, probably, maybe, whatever. 

 

Post-Heresy deeply brainwashed "We can't let the Heresy happen again" Marines? Not so often.

[Deus Imperator Vult]

Now that you mention it... I recall that assassin guy Maggard from the first trilogy of the Horus Heresy series. The Sons of Horus started to transform him into a space marine and he was an adult, same thing with Kor Phaeron. But for his combat with Qruze it doesn't seems that the age when he got the implants affects him in any form. So my question is: there's an age limit to the implantation of the organs? has been stated before?

It was the same with Luther he was already an adult when the Emperor found Caliban. If memory serves they can't implant all the organs (thought I couldnt tell you where I read it) they can bulk them to the level of an astartes, fit them with A black carapace to let them fight in power armour but they lack most of the 'super human' qualities of marines.

'Kor Phaeron is described by Xaphen Chaplain of the 7th Company at the time of the Great Crusade as being a "False Astartes" it is also apparent that there is some level of distrust or resentment within the legion towards Kor Phaeron due to how he rose to position of First Captain. It is stated that due to being too old to undergo the genetic modifications required to be a Space Marine as such his Astartes status was cobbled together by a combination of bionics, rejuvenating surgeries and 'limited gene forging' as such he stands somewhere between the levels of Human and Astartes not quite being either one or the other. This coupled with the favor shown by Lorgar towards him has lead to some level of resentment from the rest of the legion though all are in agreement that he is a wise man and a respected preacher.^3'

I realise I am just quoting huge sections from Lexicanum but I was trying to remember exactly how he was described in First Heretic. If I recall Luther was the same deal BUT he does manage to hold his own in a fight with the Lion although maybe that's because of the Chaos gods helping him. *Waits to get mauled by Dark Angels fans*

[Cerbero666]

 

Now that you mention it... I recall that assassin guy Maggard from the first trilogy of the Horus Heresy series. The Sons of Horus started to transform him into a space marine and he was an adult, same thing with Kor Phaeron. But for his combat with Qruze it doesn't seems that the age when he got the implants affects him in any form. So my question is: there's an age limit to the implantation of the organs? has been stated before?

It was the same with Luther he was already an adult when the Emperor found Caliban. If memory serves they can't implant all the organs (thought I couldnt tell you where I read it) they can bulk them to the level of an astartes, fit them with A black carapace to let them fight in power armour but they lack most of the 'super human' qualities of marines.

'Kor Phaeron is described by Xaphen Chaplain of the 7th Company at the time of the Great Crusade as being a "False Astartes" it is also apparent that there is some level of distrust or resentment within the legion towards Kor Phaeron due to how he rose to position of First Captain. It is stated that due to being too old to undergo the genetic modifications required to be a Space Marine as such his Astartes status was cobbled together by a combination of bionics, rejuvenating surgeries and 'limited gene forging' as such he stands somewhere between the levels of Human and Astartes not quite being either one or the other. This coupled with the favor shown by Lorgar towards him has lead to some level of resentment from the rest of the legion though all are in agreement that he is a wise man and a respected preacher.^3'

I realise I am just quoting huge sections from Lexicanum but I was trying to remember exactly how he was described in First Heretic. If I recall Luther was the same deal BUT he does manage to hold his own in a fight with the Lion although maybe that's because of the Chaos gods helping him. *Waits to get mauled by Dark Angels fans*

 

Yes, I also recall that some of the organs couldn't be implanted to Kor Phaeron (I think it was stated in First Heretic) and Luther (Descent of Angels). So then the age is relevant just to achieve the status of "full astartes", but they could fight like any other. 

 

Thank you for the detailed explanation!

[malika666]

Maggard and Kor Phaeron were upgraded, but not to full marines, they were too old.

 

As for Maggard, he also had other implants, upgrades and training. It's very possible that Horus also had him trained to fight other Astartes. 

[godking]

 

Now that you mention it... I recall that assassin guy Maggard from the first trilogy of the Horus Heresy series. The Sons of Horus started to transform him into a space marine and he was an adult, same thing with Kor Phaeron. But for his combat with Qruze it doesn't seems that the age when he got the implants affects him in any form. So my question is: there's an age limit to the implantation of the organs? has been stated before?

It was the same with Luther he was already an adult when the Emperor found Caliban. If memory serves they can't implant all the organs (thought I couldnt tell you where I read it) they can bulk them to the level of an astartes, fit them with A black carapace to let them fight in power armour but they lack most of the 'super human' qualities of marines.

'Kor Phaeron is described by Xaphen Chaplain of the 7th Company at the time of the Great Crusade as being a "False Astartes" it is also apparent that there is some level of distrust or resentment within the legion towards Kor Phaeron due to how he rose to position of First Captain. It is stated that due to being too old to undergo the genetic modifications required to be a Space Marine as such his Astartes status was cobbled together by a combination of bionics, rejuvenating surgeries and 'limited gene forging' as such he stands somewhere between the levels of Human and Astartes not quite being either one or the other. This coupled with the favor shown by Lorgar towards him has lead to some level of resentment from the rest of the legion though all are in agreement that he is a wise man and a respected preacher.^3'

I realise I am just quoting huge sections from Lexicanum but I was trying to remember exactly how he was described in First Heretic. If I recall Luther was the same deal BUT he does manage to hold his own in a fight with the Lion although maybe that's because of the Chaos gods helping him. *Waits to get mauled by Dark Angels fans*

The space wolves 13th company was almost completly comprised of guys who should have been to old to become astartes.

[Carach]

 

'The 19 implanted organs are very complicated, and because several of them only work properly or at all in the presence of other implants, theremoval, mutation or  failure of one organ can affect the precise functioning of the others. Because of this, and the fact that each Chapter's gene-seed belongs to that Chapter alone, different Chapters display different characteristics and use different sets of implants and methods of implantation. Throughout the implantation process the Marine must undergo various forms of conditioning in order for the implanted organs to develop and become part of his physiology.

Listed below is the complete set of implants used:

• Phases 1-3 can be introduced at the same time, ideally between 10 and 14 years of age.
• Phases 4 and 5 can be introduced at the same time, ideally between 12 and 14 years of age.
• Hypnotherapy normally begins at phase 6, ideally sometime between 14 and 17 years of age.
• Phases 7 to 9 are normally introduced simultaneously, ideally at a point between 14 and 16 years old. The following series of organs are also ideally implanted between the ages of 14 and 16.
• Phases 14 and 15 may be introduced at the same time, ideally between 15 and 16 years of age. The remaining series of implants are then ideally introduced to the recipient between the ages of 16 and 18'

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Creation_of_a_Space_Marine#.UV2RhlczTKd

 

Now that you mention it... I recall that assassin guy Maggard from the first trilogy of the Horus Heresy series. The Sons of Horus started to transform him into a space marine and he was an adult, same thing with Kor Phaeron. But for his combat with Qruze it doesn't seems that the age when he got the implants affects him in any form. So my question is: there's an age limit to the implantation of the organs? has been stated before?

they were never making him into a marine, they merely rewarded his service by extensively enhancing him to a level closer to that of a marine. To the point that he had become a rather large brute by the end, but was not a marine. 

[yhta]

 

 

'The 19 implanted organs are very complicated, and because several of them only work properly or at all in the presence of other implants, theremoval, mutation or  failure of one organ can affect the precise functioning of the others. Because of this, and the fact that each Chapter's gene-seed belongs to that Chapter alone, different Chapters display different characteristics and use different sets of implants and methods of implantation. Throughout the implantation process the Marine must undergo various forms of conditioning in order for the implanted organs to develop and become part of his physiology.

Listed below is the complete set of implants used:

• Phases 1-3 can be introduced at the same time, ideally between 10 and 14 years of age.
• Phases 4 and 5 can be introduced at the same time, ideally between 12 and 14 years of age.
• Hypnotherapy normally begins at phase 6, ideally sometime between 14 and 17 years of age.
• Phases 7 to 9 are normally introduced simultaneously, ideally at a point between 14 and 16 years old. The following series of organs are also ideally implanted between the ages of 14 and 16.
• Phases 14 and 15 may be introduced at the same time, ideally between 15 and 16 years of age. The remaining series of implants are then ideally introduced to the recipient between the ages of 16 and 18'

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Creation_of_a_Space_Marine#.UV2RhlczTKd

 

Now that you mention it... I recall that assassin guy Maggard from the first trilogy of the Horus Heresy series. The Sons of Horus started to transform him into a space marine and he was an adult, same thing with Kor Phaeron. But for his combat with Qruze it doesn't seems that the age when he got the implants affects him in any form. So my question is: there's an age limit to the implantation of the organs? has been stated before?

they were never making him into a marine, they merely rewarded his service by extensively enhancing him to a level closer to that of a marine. To the point that he had become a rather large brute by the end, but was not a marine. 

 

yeah, but is kor phaeron,luther and amon(he was the teacher of magnus when he landed in prospero) pass the same process to become half-astarte or is meggrad diferent to the others?

 

also, there is other half-marines in loyal legions? it seen that all of then are traitor

[Deus Imperator Vult]

 

 

yeah, but is kor phaeron,luther and amon(he was the teacher of magnus when he landed in prospero) pass the same process to become half-astarte or is meggrad diferent to the others?

 

also, there is other half-marines in loyal legions? it seen that all of then are traitor

Meggrad had none of the training Horus just pumped him full of astartes level steroids basically. The others were trained as astartes they were just too old to under go the implantation process. I know Grey Angel deals with this in part but as I've not heard it yet I'll just say from what I know Luther still has a ? over his head. We know he kind of looses it but unless I'm mistaken he's still alive on the Rock hoping the Lion will forgive him.

[yhta]

 

 

 

yeah, but is kor phaeron,luther and amon(he was the teacher of magnus when he landed in prospero) pass the same process to become half-astarte or is meggrad diferent to the others?

 

also, there is other half-marines in loyal legions? it seen that all of then are traitor

Meggrad had none of the training Horus just pumped him full of astartes level steroids basically. The others were trained as astartes they were just too old to under go the implantation process. I know Grey Angel deals with this in part but as I've not heard it yet I'll just say from what I know Luther still has a ? over his head. We know he kind of looses it but unless I'm mistaken he's still alive on the Rock hoping the Lion will forgive him.

 

but meggrad already have the train and fighting habilitys and horus dosent really have the time with the whole heresy, also i don`t remenber kor phaeron have training, luther was a half-marine so he just dark powers to boost himseft to fight lion,  as far i remenber

[malika666]

When it is said that "Horus gave Meggrad a gift" it doesn't always mean that Horus literally personally went to Meggrad's cabin and gave him a present. He could have had somebody else do it. However, it still means it was done in Horus' name.

 

So if Horus upgraded Meggrad and trained him, it might mean that he had his Apothecaries upgrade him and have his marines train the guy.

[Deus Imperator Vult]

 

 

 

 

yeah, but is kor phaeron,luther and amon(he was the teacher of magnus when he landed in prospero) pass the same process to become half-astarte or is meggrad diferent to the others?

 

also, there is other half-marines in loyal legions? it seen that all of then are traitor

Meggrad had none of the training Horus just pumped him full of astartes level steroids basically. The others were trained as astartes they were just too old to under go the implantation process. I know Grey Angel deals with this in part but as I've not heard it yet I'll just say from what I know Luther still has a ? over his head. We know he kind of looses it but unless I'm mistaken he's still alive on the Rock hoping the Lion will forgive him.

 

but meggrad already have the train and fighting habilitys and horus dosent really have the time with the whole heresy, also i don`t remenber kor phaeron have training, luther was a half-marine so he just dark powers to boost himseft to fight lion,  as far i remenber

When I say training I mean when he was turned into a demi astartes if you will he would have been trained in their weapons tactics armour etc. Maggard wasn't raised  into the Sons of Horus he was just a genebulked psycopath.

[Carach]

the outcast dead - Tagore doesnt remember anything of his childhood. 

 

one line in that says so (read it just yesterday heh)

 

he's a world eater veteran tho so, tho its not mentioned in the novel, he is most likely extremely old + butchers nail and jazz; hardly the most stable of marines to have good recall

[godking]

Its clear that some men can become astartes past puberty.

 

The members of the 13th company of space wolves where men who where at least in their late 30s early forties when they became astartes.

[Excessus]

Bloodquest has the marines recalling windkiting back on Baal in their youths, and proceed to use it in their quest to survive a battlefield...

[Apothecary Vaddon]

(a bit of a necro, but a useful one)

I just started Deathwatch, and Karras can remember stuff from when he was 4 years old. Granted he's a librarian, but from what I am gathering it's implied that he remembers the stuff and it's not some sort of psyker power.

edit: 4 standard Imperial years. Parker gives something of a conversion in the novel; 8 SI is about 22 Terran, so 4 SI would be ~11 Terran.

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

The space wolves 13th company was almost completly comprised of guys who should have been to old to become astartes.

Not quite, little brother. Russ' thegns (the Wolf Brothers) volunteered to a man to undergo the process and most didn't survive it. Wolf at the Door in Tales of Heresy describes that Russ built a new Great Company around the survivors. There is nothing to suggest there were enough left the man a full GC, which during the HH would have been many thousands strong.

[godking]

 

The space wolves 13th company was almost completly comprised of guys who should have been to old to become astartes.

Not quite, little brother. Russ' thegns (the Wolf Brothers) volunteered to a man to undergo the process and most didn't survive it. Wolf at the Door in Tales of Heresy describes that Russ built a new Great Company around the survivors. There is nothing to suggest there were enough left the man a full GC, which during the HH would have been many thousands strong.

Your right what i should have said that those in leadership positions where mostly those of Russ thegns who survived the trials of the wolves and the astartes process.

 

My point that there are men who should be way to old to become astartes that can survive the astartes proces is still valid.

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

Your right what i should have said that those in leadership positions where mostly those of Russ thegns who survived the trials of the wolves and the astartes process.

My point that there are men who should be way to old to become astartes that can survive the astartes proces is still valid.

Yes it is, though even the Allfather is described at being surprised at the number of Wolf Brothers that survived the implantation process.

Obviously Luther, Kor et al just couldn't face the risk. Which in itself may indicate inherent character flaws

[Dafoo]

Don't Blood Angels and Space Wolves have totally different Astartes Processes anyways? I am just going off of the Codex's having not read the novels myself, but BA use the Insanguination process and most of their candidates would have to be older to survive the trip required to be inducted. Same with Space Wolves cannon from books aside I have noticed that most of their warriors are taken out of bars and that Russ's gene seed is different where it mutates them in a more bestial manner if it fails. I think all the other chapters were pretty standard on their gene seed, although Dark Angels are a bit more picky about their troops. Grey Knights have a weird induction process too. One that I do not see a 9 year old standing ANY chance of getting into.