Wolf Guard and Combi-Weapons

[Guest Drunk Guardian]

Wolf Guard and combi-weapons... are they REALLY worth it?

 

It seems to be a common build to equip wolf guard, particularly pack leaders, with combi-weapons and sometimes power weapons. In my opinion, you get better use out of Wolf Guard by doing one or the other.

 

Point for point, a Wolf Guard with a power weapon and bolt pistol is the most cost effective close combat unit in the entire codex. With a combi-weapon, that is not so.

 

So what really needs to be considered is what role are the Wolf Guard there to fill? Boost close combat? Boost shooting?

 

If you're expecting your unit to die rather quickly, then a wolf guard with a combi-weapon and a bolt pistol is a cost effective model that can potentially obtain big results with the combi-weapon. However, if you're expecting your unit to hang around for a while, then the extra close combat efficiency could potentially have much greater value than a single situational shot that the combi-weapon provides.

 

Combi-plasmas aren't really that great unless you intend to plasma bomb out of a drop pod. Combi-meltas are situational... you're pigeon holing a Grey Hunter unit into tank hunting (or at least providing it with the flexibility to perform an opportunistic takedown). IMO not the best use of Grey Hunters since what they really excel at is killing infantry / heavy infantry. Combi-flamers likely have the best synergy with a Grey Hunter unit that is there for infantry killing... but again, does the one flamer shot really outweigh a power sword and bolt pistol?

 

If you intend to configure your Grey Hunters for mid-range shooty, then your best bet is a 10 man Grey Hunter squad with two plasma guns and a Rhino... no WGPL. If you intend to have your Grey Hunters in short-range shooty, then you're probably better off with 9 GH, a WGPL with a power sword / bolt pistol, and a free flamer on the Grey Hunters.

 

Combi-weapons are versatile and *could* provide big results, but it is so situational based on your opponent and a hundred other factors... is it really worth it?

[Thunderhawk3015]

I've found that for units that are getting up close they are worth their weight due to their ability to accept/issue challenges.  The combi-weapon gives the option of the clutch shot that may be needed to make sure something dies.  As far as I am concerned I don't try to send my Grey Hunters to die, but in some situations I will use them to slow or divert my opponent so that I can set up them up for something worse than they can administer.

 

On the subject of pigeon holing your units with their wargear, well... if you want something to happen you kinda need to make sure you have units to do it.  If your going for a firebase, you take plasma, if tank hunting is needed, then its melta's.  Sure Long Fangs are good, but with baleflamers and the like roaming around, better to have more than one anti-armor option.  Even the lowly flamer can be quite good with the number of dice you can make your opponent start rolling. 

 

As far as using combi-weapons over pistol/power weapon, IMO, the ability to have the extra shots when you need them is worth it.

[Grey Mage]

I give combi-meltas to my Powerfist wolf gaurd in a regular basis, since they are most often found in squads of PA WG, it gives the unit some solid anti-tank punch so they can assault enemy elites holed up in LRs etc.

 

I wouldnt with PW wielders though... why pay more to lose out on the attack?

[skeletoro]

If you're talking about a P arm+weap WGPL I think it's worth considering the bolt pistol. It's certainly a valid choice for the reasons you state. This is especially true when you consider that a WGPL with CW+PW cannot shoot on the charge either so they have no bolt pistol (unless they're firing their 1 melta/flamer).

 

That said, I think a combi-melta is a pretty good option - that melta shot can make the difference between charging a transport the next assault phase vs charging its occupants. If the occupants are shooty (e.g. imperial guard vets), that's a massive difference. You cannot use your extra power weapon/fist attack to accomplish such a thing (a power fist might blow up a chimera but those plasma vets won't be locked in combat as a result). I would personally take a WGPL for my rhino/razorback squads, as 9 LD is a huge deal (as is the cheap power weapon, which can be used to challenge PF-wielding sergeants). And for the reasons just stated, I'd generally give the WG a combi-melta. A bolt pistol would be a solid alternative though, and I'm inclined to magnetize the gun arms to allow for that option.

 

Personally, whenever I can take a TDAWGPL I will. And generally, I'd take a combi weapon - typically plasma. Personally, I think on a TDAWG, it's a sure bet. It's particularly dramatic when you use it in conjunction with an assault ramp - rapid firing plasma and then charging in with a power weapon means offloading a huge amount of damage on a single turn. On average, a TDAWG with C-P and PA will kill one marine with plasma and one marine with power axe attacks on the round they charge - coming awfully close to paying back their points in just one round.

 

You don't have to expect your GH pack to die promptly in order for combi-weapon's front-loaded nature to be a big deal. Front-loading is still good even if the unit survives the whole game. Ultimately, the more damage YOU do on turn 1, the less damage THEY do on every turn after that. Or at least, that's the idea behind it. One melta shot or two plasma shots can be a really big deal - especially if close combat shortly follows. Striking hard and striking early has a huge cumulative benefit in a game like 40k. Killing X marines on turn 1-2 is much, much better than racking up the same number of kills by turn 6.

 

OK, that was a bit of a ramble. Apologies :D

[Marshall Bretton]

in normal armoured wg i can understand the debate between the extra attack or the benefit of the combi shot(s) depends what you are facing and what you want the pack in question to do i suppose

 

on tdawg then no question personally, they don't lose an attack with the combi so the combi can only be a benefit

[Blacksad]

I've cut off the quote where I feel you're mistaken. A Wolf Guard isn't there to boost close combat, he isn't there to boost shooting, he is there to boost THE UNIT. In the case of Grey Hunters, well, they're allrounders, so the WG should boost that unit allround. +1Ld, +1 melta/plasma/flameshot, +1 powerweapon/fist/thunderhammer/wolfclaw and if the unit isn't meant to be in a Rhino or Razorback, give him TDA to increase the unit's survivability too (+1av ftw!!!)

Wolf Guard and combi-weapons... are they REALLY worth it?

 

It seems to be a common build to equip wolf guard, particularly pack leaders, with combi-weapons and sometimes power weapons. In my opinion, you get better use out of Wolf Guard by doing one or the other.

 

Point for point, a Wolf Guard with a power weapon and bolt pistol is the most cost effective close combat unit in the entire codex. With a combi-weapon, that is not so.

 

So what really needs to be considered is what role are the Wolf Guard there to fill? Boost close combat? Boost shooting?

 

*snip*