Power weapons. WGPL and Hidden GH

[OrangeBob]

Hello Fang.

 

This is my first post after many months of lurking. Now I know this has been discussed to death, but now that 6th edition has been out for quite some time, I thought I would ask again. 

 

In 9 man GH packs with an attached WGPL in terminator armor arriving via drop pod, what would work better?

 

WGPL with Power Axe, GH with Power Sword

or 

WGPL with Power Sword, GH with Power Axe

 

For fluff and modeling reasons I am decking out my drop pod squads with most of the goodies. (MotW, Plasma or Melta, Banner, PW). I will also deck out the WGPL with matching combi-weapon.

 

I am not a competitive player, and am not afraid to magnetize. I just thought I would pick the Fang's collective brain. Please understand that I don't want to change drastically from this set-up, as I am looking forward to modeling the minis in this fashion. I just can't decide where to put the axe and where to put the sword.

 

P.S. I am using 3 drop pods and supporting LFs, TWC, and Rune Priest(s) depending on points.

 

Cheers!

OrangeBob

[Blacksad]

neighter would work, cause TDA takes up 2 slots. you need to cut down on the Grey Hunters.

 

I'd put the axe on the GH and the WGPL. if the opponent has a weapon with AP¨2 you can always decline a challenge, can't you?

[Forté]

Decline the challenge and have your pack decimated. Axe on GH Sword or Claw on WGBL.

[Wulfebane]

Catch 22. If you're challenged, you'll want decent initiative to get some swings off before potentially dying. Although with TDA you have better survivability and can risk initiative for an axe.. But then you have to assume the person making the challenge is confident enough to win, meaning they can withstand your sword or have the initiative to kill you before your axe swings.

Bottom line, the argument is inconceivable. Both have their bonuses.

[Reichfaust]

neighter would work, cause TDA takes up 2 slots. you need to cut down on the Grey Hunters.

 

I'm assuming he meant 9 total--as in 8 Grey Hunters with 1 WGPL in TDA.

 

Anyways, I think the answer is simple--take a mix. Try and steer your GH squad with a Power Sword WGPL and a Power Axe GH towards, for example, a squad lead by a Power Fist Sgt, who you should (dice gods willing) kill in a challenge before he strikes, while steering your Power Axe WGPL and squad towards other targets. Both loadouts have pros and cons, so why not include both for the tactical superiority?

[OrangeBob]

Thanks guys!

 

I think I will go with the mixed bag that Reichfaust has suggested. It suits my playing style very well.

[skeletoro]

Definitely 2 axes, IMO.

[skeletoro]

Although giving the TDAWGPL a fist is worth consideration, as is fist+claw.

[Reichfaust]

Indeed, skeletoro--If you're willing to drop the points on such a load out, the "specialist weapons" rule in 6th edition has certainly made mixed weapons appealing. I modelled a TDA WG with a chainfist/wolf claw combo in the style of Tyberos the Red Wake, myself--he's one of my favourites! :D

[WG Vrox]

Agreed, with the WC being just 5  points on a WG TDA, if you're going for a CC monster, you can't do much better than WC/CF.  Yes it's five more points than the PF, but the versatility and threat factor of the unit is worth it.  

[Ghostwolfalpha]

I prefer axes on GH and swords on pack leaders. A sword is an officers weapon. Plus going at initiative is nice and the axe cant get singled out, so he has a good chance to get his swings in even at initiative 1.

[Jarl Deathwolf]

I give my sarges a Wolf Claw and a Powerfist. I haven't lost a challenge yet, exluding some necron Overlord, a Daemon Prince with the Black Mace and Lysander (which I can be excused for). If the enemy has an AP2 weapon, they usually strike last. Wolf Claw. If they strike at Iniative, then they rarely have AP2. Powerfist. It works nice, though it is a tad expensive. Whenever I get into cc, however, it makes its points back. With this I usually do a Power Axe, as he can't be singled out and therefore temporarily neutralized as easily, so he will usually draw some blood. Or Mark of the Wulfen, which I do simply because no one else can do it and I like rolling a bunch of dice, even when there is only two or three Grey Hunters left.

[Grimtooth]

Go cheap and equip with a wolf claw.

 

A WGPL is at no time a match for a HQ with even the slightest edge in close combat. The HQ will not only have the higher stats to deliver hits, but also the wargear option to make them hurt and survive those in return. So how do we normally deal with a 2+ save? We stack as many wounds as we can and just wait for the iinvariable 1's to be rolled.

 

With the options for rerolls on the wolf claw, we can hope to stack as many ap3 wounds, pushing for the inv wargear save or stacking wounds on the 2+ wargear save, whichever the opponent happens to be equipped. When not engaged with a challenge, we get to throw as many wounds into the unit as we can, which when combined with a axe equipped GH, denies many, many saves.

[skeletoro]

A WGPL with a PF costs 43 points and stands a fairly decent chance of killing non-deathstar-ish HQs in a duel. 4+ to hit, 2+ to wound. Most likely, 3 attacks. So, 1.25 ID wounds, on average. Even if the HQ has an invulnerable save, they still are at risk.

 

They're unlikely to beat a thunderlord, but that's beside the point.

[Marshall Bretton]

the problem is they are at i1 so unless they have tda they are likely to be smushed by anyone with an ap3 weapon before they can hit back, and even against regular weapons there is still a chance they will fail a save before they can hit

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

I prefer axes on GH and swords on pack leaders. A sword is an officers weapon. Plus going at initiative is nice and the axe cant get singled out, so he has a good chance to get his swings in even at initiative 1.

 

That's for brother blue.

 

Here is the Fang commanders can carry swords, axes, claws, hammers, the jagged spine of the Ratvalian smurkmonster - whatever floats your (long)boat ;)

 

However +1 for PC on TDA for me and an axe for the GH.

[OrangeBob]

Now I really like the idea of WC for the TDAWGPL and Power Axe for the Grey Hunter. Cheap and effective.  Plus wolf claws just look awesome on Wolf Guard Terminators.

[Grimtooth]

Based on my playstyle of close support, the wolfclaw on my WGPL is just fine.  If there is an enemy unit nearby that has a close combat monster that my WGPL should be wary about in being challenged, chances are very high that I have a close combat monster in close support to hit that enemy unit first.  A WGPL is ideal for handling line troops and dealing with the upgrade character in challenges every now and then.  He is not the answer for a dedicated HQ choice that has the stats, weapons, and wargear to smoke the WGPL in a challenge.

[skeletoro]

It's a costs benefits thing. The point isn't to be more likely than not to win. The point is to perform well for the points spent. A terminator with power fist has a very real chance of smoking many HQ units that cost triple his own cost. Many librarians, chaplains or even captains won't be happy to duel your 43 point model. Even if they have a better than 50% chance of winning, there is a hell of a lot more at stake for them.

[SamaNagol]

Remember you can pop your Wolf Banner as well.... so unless the opponent has an AP2 weapon you have only a 1/36 chance of failing your 2+ TDA save.

 

Which is why you should always put an Axe or a Fist on a TDAWGPL.

 

And seeing as they cannot be targeted in combat and are close to guaranteed to attack back at their Initiative step, putting an Axe on your Grey Hunter is always the best option.

 

So I would say if you can afford it: Fist on the TDA, Axe on the GH. If not, Axe on both.

[MustangTC]

But does the standard still work if your TDAWG is challenged?

[dswanick]

But does the standard still work if your TDAWG is challenged?

Yes. The standard affects all models in the unit, which would include the Pack Leader.

[Rift Blade]

Why would it not? All wounds from the Challenge affect the combat resolution & no where that I know of does it say that unit buffs do not affect Challengers.

[MustangTC]

Good I'd heard otherwise!