Betrayer - A review with an Ultramarines slant

[Captain Idaho]

Beware spoilers; though we know it's courtesy to use the tags, remember accidents happen. Most notably, I am having system issues and for some reason can't get the things to work!

 

For those of you who enjoy a good story before fan appeasement, you'll love Betrayer. There are many highlights for the audience beyond action, like depth of character added to many of the big names of 40K, a feeling of empathy to characters you don't like and progression of the Heresy storyline.

 

To me, I felt it was masterly done how I actually kept interest right to the end of many characters despite their actions and morality being genuinely repellent to me. I understood them in ways which really spoke to me. I don't know what experiences A D-B has gone through but his reference to red mist when you're so angry you lose control is not something easy to write about, or truly understand, unless you've been there and done it.

 

 

 

Loved the part about the World Eaters loathing Angron too. It was a delicious bit of depth and tragedy added to the character of a Legion often considered to be flat and monotone. On that note, I felt the whole myth of the World Eaters being mindless berserkers has been debunked now. How could the WE ever achieve anything if all they did was fight to the death every five minutes?

 

Now, onto the Ultramarines specific goodness:

 

It would have been easy for an author to play up to the Ultras-bashing crowd and fall into the trap of meaningless action and ultimately having a shallow book, but the author here really tried to illustrate just how tough fighting the Ultramarines is. There is repeated reference to the horrific causality attrition of fighting against the Ultramarines, who were able to ambush and trick the World Eaters several times.

 

There is a delicious moment where Khârn takes on an Ultramarines Captain one on one, and is absolutely outclassed and seems to be fighting a losing battle. We all knew that the Captain wouldn’t really be victorious, but the way the battle was interrupted wasn’t cheesy and you didn’t feel robbed.

 

Funnily enough, it seems A D-B has spent time and effort dispelling a number of myths in this novel.

 

As I mentioned earlier, the World Eaters aren’t mindless savages but carefully controlled, um, savages. In addition to this, we have the Night of the Wolf, where Leman Russ and his Legion were shown to be more than just capable fighters but also clever thinkers. In reverse of this, we have Guilliman and his Ultramarines being more than just clever thinkers, but being capable fighters.

 

Which brings me onto a highlight of the novel (for me) though I understand others might be a little less negative when they review it.

 

Guilliman is shown briefly and goes straight for Lorgar! As can be expected, Primarch fights are generally pretty even, but A D-B certainly painted a picture where Lorgar was losing his against Guilliman. I often used to say Guilliman must be a superb fighter as his chosen weapons are pairs of power fists, implying he is a brawler and thus tougher than people ever gave him credit for, and this time it looks like I interpreted this part of Guilliman correctly.

 

Despite Lorgar crashing his Crozius against Guilliman’s skull, it was the former who was slowed by his injuries whilst Guilliman appeared rather less fazed by a cracked skull. If it weren’t for the Red Angel, likely Guilliman would have killed Lorgar and his plan to take down Angron could have been enacted.

 

The next part of my highlight, which will be controversial, is Guilliman fighting both Angron and Lorgar and merely giving ground. This is Angron we’re talking about; likely the most powerful of all Primarchs in close combat, and one of only three who could claim so.

 

Sure, Angron eventually gets the better of Guilliman, but it was impressive to see Guilliman tearing lumps from Angron and lasting so long. (it is remarked just how Angron isn’t in much better shape after their fight)

 

I know some people won’t like Guilliman taking a beating, but it is logical. Primarchs die when they fight each other, and we even had Corax fleeing Angron, not out of cowardice but tactical pragmatism to preserve his life. For Guilliman to be elevated to a near equal to Angron raises his status considerably. It was a good show.

 

 

Criticism

 

(NOTE – Please don’t be offended here A D-B or anyone else. I’m an Ultramarines fan and part of this section is related purely because of an element of bias. I loved the book and I hope I explain myself correctly here.)

 

Well the book was pretty hot and juicy for the most part. There isn’t much I didn’t like and I was genuinely taken by surprise by Erebus’ actions in it.

 

However, the one area I felt a little disappointed with was:

 

How utterly outclassed the Loyalist forces are in battle.

 

 

 

Guilty culprits are the invincible Titan Legion Audax and space battles involving the Conqueror. Don’t get me wrong, they worked brilliantly as a spectacle and were fun reads, but I found myself rolling my eyes at the final battles involving both parties.

 

Yes the fleet actions were desperate and Guilliman’s assault on the combined Legions spoke of that, but it seemed all the Conqueror had to do was fire for a couple seconds against an enemy capital ship and it would die (causing my eyes to roll uncontrollably!), yet took an age to die itself. In fact it survive in the end!

 

I didn’t like the way it was so successful in preventing landings on the planet. If Guilliman’s fleet was so easily prevented from doing so, I did wonder why he was so set on the attack in the first place. He was so easily outclassed by the captain of the Conqueror it just bugged me why he wasn’t able to circumnavigate the problems she created or why he continued on with his folly.

 

I kept expecting for Guilliman’s fleet to pull some amazing manoeuvre out the bag and show just why he is famed and respected across the Imperium, and as the page count depleted to the end I had a sinking feeling this just wouldn’t happen.

 

The Titan Legion Audux was bothering me a little too. Killing an Imperator Titan is the stuff of myth and legend yet it was never in doubt the thing would lose. Sure, 12 Warhounds died to it, but now the traitors have a new Imperator in pristine condition!

 

I do get the bleak situation Loyalists are at this stage of the Heresy, but I couldn’t shake the sinking feeling the Ultramarines were getting more beatings followed by further beatings etc. Horus didn’t want Guilliman to intervene and sponsored the Ruinstorm to prevent him, but it seems he needn’t have bothered and was worried about nothing!

 

 

Summary

 

It was a great read and highly enjoyable. Don’t fret about the space battles or Titan moments, since I was talking from an Ultramarines fan’s perspective and am very impressed with the whole series of events really. Of course I was a little biased from my history of reading of Ultramarines failures in the Black Library, but that in no way colours my overall impression of the book.

 

I give it 9 Bolter shells out of 10.

[Marshall Bretton]

good review and i agree with you, i really liked it but shared the parts you were less keen on

seriously?! capturing and imperator? even if they did board it i think it would self destruct before it was captured

 

 

im also an ultra fan

[Captain Idaho]

I could live with a bit of failure and disaster but it seemed the Ultramarines failed in every way.

[A D-B]

Beware spoilers; though we know it's courtesy to use the tags, remember accidents happen. Most notably, I am having system issues and for some reason can't get the things to work!

 

For those of you who enjoy a good story before fan appeasement, you'll love Betrayer. There are many highlights for the audience beyond action, like depth of character added to many of the big names of 40K, a feeling of empathy to characters you don't like and progression of the Heresy storyline.

 

To me, I felt it was masterly done how I actually kept interest right to the end of many characters despite their actions and morality being genuinely repellent to me. I understood them in ways which really spoke to me. I don't know what experiences A D-B has gone through but his reference to red mist when you're so angry you lose control is not something easy to write about, or truly understand, unless you've been there and done it.

 

 

 

Loved the part about the World Eaters loathing Angron too. It was a delicious bit of depth and tragedy added to the character of a Legion often considered to be flat and monotone. On that note, I felt the whole myth of the World Eaters being mindless berserkers has been debunked now. How could the WE ever achieve anything if all they did was fight to the death every five minutes?

 

Now, onto the Ultramarines specific goodness:

 

It would have been easy for an author to play up to the Ultras-bashing crowd and fall into the trap of meaningless action and ultimately having a shallow book, but the author here really tried to illustrate just how tough fighting the Ultramarines is. There is repeated reference to the horrific causality attrition of fighting against the Ultramarines, who were able to ambush and trick the World Eaters several times.

 

There is a delicious moment where Khârn takes on an Ultramarines Captain one on one, and is absolutely outclassed and seems to be fighting a losing battle. We all knew that the Captain wouldn’t really be victorious, but the way the battle was interrupted wasn’t cheesy and you didn’t feel robbed.

 

Funnily enough, it seems A D-B has spent time and effort dispelling a number of myths in this novel.

 

As I mentioned earlier, the World Eaters aren’t mindless savages but carefully controlled, um, savages. In addition to this, we have the Night of the Wolf, where Leman Russ and his Legion were shown to be more than just capable fighters but also clever thinkers. In reverse of this, we have Guilliman and his Ultramarines being more than just clever thinkers, but being capable fighters.

 

Which brings me onto a highlight of the novel (for me) though I understand others might be a little less negative when they review it.

 

Guilliman is shown briefly and goes straight for Lorgar! As can be expected, Primarch fights are generally pretty even, but A D-B certainly painted a picture where Lorgar was losing his against Guilliman. I often used to say Guilliman must be a superb fighter as his chosen weapons are pairs of power fists, implying he is a brawler and thus tougher than people ever gave him credit for, and this time it looks like I interpreted this part of Guilliman correctly.

 

Despite Lorgar crashing his Crozius against Guilliman’s skull, it was the former who was slowed by his injuries whilst Guilliman appeared rather less fazed by a cracked skull. If it weren’t for the Red Angel, likely Guilliman would have killed Lorgar and his plan to take down Angron could have been enacted.

 

The next part of my highlight, which will be controversial, is Guilliman fighting both Angron and Lorgar and merely giving ground. This is Angron we’re talking about; likely the most powerful of all Primarchs in close combat, and one of only three who could claim so.

 

Sure, Angron eventually gets the better of Guilliman, but it was impressive to see Guilliman tearing lumps from Angron and lasting so long. (it is remarked just how Angron isn’t in much better shape after their fight)

 

I know some people won’t like Guilliman taking a beating, but it is logical. Primarchs die when they fight each other, and we even had Corax fleeing Angron, not out of cowardice but tactical pragmatism to preserve his life. For Guilliman to be elevated to a near equal to Angron raises his status considerably. It was a good show.

 

 

Criticism

 

(NOTE – Please don’t be offended here A D-B or anyone else. I’m an Ultramarines fan and part of this section is related purely because of an element of bias. I loved the book and I hope I explain myself correctly here.)

 

Well the book was pretty hot and juicy for the most part. There isn’t much I didn’t like and I was genuinely taken by surprise by Erebus’ actions in it.

 

However, the one area I felt a little disappointed with was:

 

How utterly outclassed the Loyalist forces are in battle.

 

 

 

Guilty culprits are the invincible Titan Legion Audax and space battles involving the Conqueror. Don’t get me wrong, they worked brilliantly as a spectacle and were fun reads, but I found myself rolling my eyes at the final battles involving both parties.

 

Yes the fleet actions were desperate and Guilliman’s assault on the combined Legions spoke of that, but it seemed all the Conqueror had to do was fire for a couple seconds against an enemy capital ship and it would die (causing my eyes to roll uncontrollably!), yet took an age to die itself. In fact it survive in the end!

 

I didn’t like the way it was so successful in preventing landings on the planet. If Guilliman’s fleet was so easily prevented from doing so, I did wonder why he was so set on the attack in the first place. He was so easily outclassed by the captain of the Conqueror it just bugged me why he wasn’t able to circumnavigate the problems she created or why he continued on with his folly.

 

I kept expecting for Guilliman’s fleet to pull some amazing manoeuvre out the bag and show just why he is famed and respected across the Imperium, and as the page count depleted to the end I had a sinking feeling this just wouldn’t happen.

 

The Titan Legion Audux was bothering me a little too. Killing an Imperator Titan is the stuff of myth and legend yet it was never in doubt the thing would lose. Sure, 12 Warhounds died to it, but now the traitors have a new Imperator in pristine condition!

 

I do get the bleak situation Loyalists are at this stage of the Heresy, but I couldn’t shake the sinking feeling the Ultramarines were getting more beatings followed by further beatings etc. Horus didn’t want Guilliman to intervene and sponsored the Ruinstorm to prevent him, but it seems he needn’t have bothered and was worried about nothing!

 

 

Summary

 

It was a great read and highly enjoyable. Don’t fret about the space battles or Titan moments, since I was talking from an Ultramarines fan’s perspective and am very impressed with the whole series of events really. Of course I was a little biased from my history of reading of Ultramarines failures in the Black Library, but that in no way colours my overall impression of the book.

 

I give it 9 Bolter shells out of 10.

 

Always appreciate feedback. Thanks, Cap. I still have about a billion more issues with it than you do, but I think that's just the way any artist approaches their own stuff. You liked all the stuff I hoped people would like, let's put it that way.

 

Re: the Imperator, that's something I like the least, too. I was trying to subvert the 'killing Imperators' trope (in this case, it totally doesn't die! Yay!) the same way I did with the 'weakling Avatars dying to Marines' trope in Aurelian, where you see the cover and think it's yet another Avatar dead to Imperial badassery, but really it's the long-screwed shadow of an Avatar, dead in the Fall and existing as a remnant that Lorgar comes across.

 

With the Imperator, I just assumed way too much would come across without saying it. It's supposed to show how immense a moment it is when deploying one of those things - that even getting it active is a nightmare of organisation - and takes ages, with a skilled commander having an advantage if he attacks while it's still powering up. Firing guns that devastate cities isn't as simple as just pointing and clicking, and I wanted to make it clear that deploying one of those bad boys is a serious commitment, giving the opponents time to react before it could get going. It wasn't a fight against an Imperator - it was boarding one that was still powering up, and taking hold of it, because that's the kind of operation the Legio Audax and the World Eaters are viciously good at. If it had fired, they'd have won the war. That's what Imperators do. So the red team had to act before it fired, and it felt like a great place to show just how monumental an operation it is, when trying to wake one of these things up. I wish I'd made that clearer, yeah.

 

On a meta note, it was also a reflection of the static themes that bind the Imperium and Ultramar at this stage of the war; that this early on, it's the Traitors that are changing and adapting while the Imperium is still gearing up to respond to conventional threats. The counterpoint to that, balancing the theme, was that even in victory the Traitors sow the seeds of their own destruction, because of what happens at the top, the moment the Imperator is taken. The red team 'wins', then screws themselves over by betraying each other, because that's what that breed of 'evil' selfishness often does: it squanders the advantages it had beforehand for the sake of perceived individual gain.

 

But I can say "I intended X" and it's irrelevant - it's bone-achingly clear I should've just said that stuff (or at least made it more obvious). 

 

Ironically, I could've just killed it instantly and realistically. I think it's about 30-40 Warhounds attacking it, and if they'd just opened fire, they'd have toasted it in seconds. Fnargh.

[A D-B]

I could live with a bit of failure and disaster but it seemed the Ultramarines failed in every way.

 

Sort of. Remember, there really weren't that many Ultramarines there. A few hundred Ultramarines hammered thousands and thousands of World Eaters and Word Bearers on Armatura (Khârn and co. keep lamenting how they're getting pulped by superior tactics and brotherhood, and running into the Ultramarines' traps), and when a few thousand more Ultramarines show up, still outnumbered, Guilliman holds off two Traitor primarchs on his own. 

 

The deal is, it's a story about a disaster suffered by the Ultramarines. So they're not going to win it. I'm still pretty confident they didn't look dumb, though. They slaughtered way, way more World Eaters and Word Bearers than taking casualties of their own.

[Marshall Bretton]

ok i had no idea you were on here, thats cool

 

actually with your explanation that makes allot more sense with the titan, and thinking about it, it is implied in the story

 

 

please keep up the good work though, love everything you have done so far

[Captain Idaho]

I feel a little rotten now! Please, don't think I'm doing the whole "my favourite didn't win -WAH!" thing. Like mentioned earlier the parts were done superbly (I read the book in 2 days even with 2 kids!). The book is a favorite of mine.

 

It was possibly down to my own assumptions that gave me those impressions. I assumed a when the Imperator moved it was operational, and when you say it that way the yes it does make sense.

 

I also assumed Guilliman had thousands of Ultramarines with him from Calth and elsewhere and was fighting equal numbers.

 

I suppose by extension it was an assumption on my part about the power of a Glorianna class vessel was roughly equivalent to a standard battle ships? Thinking about this could be my biased reading from BFG where a Venerable Battle Barge was said to be the old capital ship from the Heresy.

 

I'm a little embarrassed. I pride myself on being able to read between the lines and not make assumptions but I was wrong here. As a fledgling writer I also think I have no right to criticise in such a petty way, when other members of the audience might not have the same expectations.

[Captain Idaho]

Oh and the Ultramarines were NOT done a dis-service by this book! They definitely gave as good as they got and like I said, anyway who thinks Guilliman sat on his laurels in the Heresy has to eat humble pie!

 

Many thanks for your input A D-B. It's great you do that and I just hope you don't think you even HAVE to defend yourself. Obviously I am more fan boy than I realised!

[A D-B]

I feel a little rotten now! Please, don't think I'm doing the whole "my favourite didn't win -WAH!" thing. Like mentioned earlier the parts were done superbly (I read the book in 2 days even with 2 kids!). The book is a favorite of mine.

 

It was possibly down to my own assumptions that gave me those impressions. I assumed a when the Imperator moved it was operational, and when you say it that way the yes it does make sense.

 

I also assumed Guilliman had thousands of Ultramarines with him from Calth and elsewhere and was fighting equal numbers.

 

I suppose by extension it was an assumption on my part about the power of a Glorianna class vessel was roughly equivalent to a standard battle ships? Thinking about this could be my biased reading from BFG where a Venerable Battle Barge was said to be the old capital ship from the Heresy.

 

I'm a little embarrassed. I pride myself on being able to read between the lines and not make assumptions but I was wrong here. As a fledgling writer I also think I have no right to criticise in such a petty way, when other members of the audience might not have the same expectations.

 

Naw, dude, your critique was awesome and accurate. You didn't come across as biased at all, and like I said, I totally agree with the Imperator stuff. It's just not clear enough in the book. That's my fault, not the readers'.

 

(Though, I sort of envision Gloriana-class ships to be unbelievably vast and killy. Just a related note.)

[Ramell]

Well, A D-B, now that you've adressed the few weak points in the book, it makes perfect sense. So there's only one thing left I can dislike about an otherwise fantastic novel:

 

Why did you have to kill off Argel Tal?

 

[Captain Idaho]

Ha ha, that twist actually caught me by surprise! I genuinely thought it would be a Primarch who did it!

 

But we all know Erebus - sure there might be Daemonic enslavement later on...

[Marshall Bretton]

he was actually one of my favourite characters in the whole heresy which i find odd as i went into the series intending to hate all the traitors

 

im really upset he went, but thats only from an: oh my god you killed one of my favourite characters! point of view similar to

lord stark being killed in game of thrones

 

 

from a story point of view and as a plot device it is fantastic and i loved it

[Captain Idaho]

(Though, I sort of envision Gloriana-class ships to be unbelievably vast and killy. Just a related note.)

I will now! I think I failed to grasp just how big Glorianna class vessels are intended to be portrayed because we are constantly told just how big 40K vessels are to the extent it's lost a little meaning to me!

 

Does anyone else really want BFG to be revamped by GW, possibly even FW, giving us new vessels? I really want to see some of these flagships and it would tie in nicely with the HH Forge World releases...

[karden00]

I actually loved BFG back in the day...I felt it ran great, and was totally cool for larger campaigns and whatnot. Unfortunately, I was the only one in my area that thought so... =( 

[the jeske]

So if post implant WE lobotomisation no longer turns them in to kill kill kill things that they were in fluff for ages and that now they are both khorn [which kind of a is only about the kill kill kill thing god] and controled savages , then what makes them different from space wolfs or even NL . Now I understand that a story about WE can be done with the old fluff , while a book cant[too many pages] and it is good that it wasnt done here , but still doesnt that make marines from different legions the same ?

 

also how can few companies do ambushes against a legion ? ambushes work when you either attack the supply lines or the enemy has too small a force to encircle you[like two armies of more or less the same size] , neither was an option here , at least untile G-man arrives .

[Captain Idaho]

Try reading the book ;)

 

They're berserkers in combat, not every day of their lives. SW are barbarians with a relentless fury and calculated tacticians. Night Lords are cold blooded murderers.

 

As for the rest of the story; Ultramarines aren't the only Imperial soldiers on the battlefield.

[Gree]

I could live with a bit of failure and disaster but it seemed the Ultramarines failed in every way.

 

Have not yet read the book but that decreases my urge to buy this book even further from my first considerations. Not by much though, as my expectations for the Ultramarines have lowered for quite some time now.

 

Might buy it though for the World Eaters action though, I've been developing an interest in them.

[blackoption]

Honestly, I am interested in seeing the Ultra's point of view about that Nucerian raid and I am curious to see how the XIIIth reacts and learns from this engagement.  It seems to me that the Black Library is doing everything it can to "share the wealth" of the war.  I suspect we shall see more of our brothers in blue bashing the Traitor forces. However, the one sticking point for me is that it seemed out of character for the Ultra's to rush in like they did, at least from a naval perspective.  I personally think they might have had more success if they stuck to their doctrine rather then "storm the beach" so quick.  There might be a valid reason for them to rush in (say the newly reinstated Librarians sense an impending change in Angron or the character of the war and advise Guilliman to abandon caution in order to change it.)  Otherwise... it almost seems as if the World Eaters were fighting mirrors of themselves.

 

I've actually written ADB about it.  I never got a response, but I didn't expect one either.

 

But the book does a wonderful job at outlining the legion culture for the World Eaters.  I could almost like them....  almost.  It is almost a shame that the World Eater culture was tainted and lost.

[Captain Idaho]

 

I could live with a bit of failure and disaster but it seemed the Ultramarines failed in every way.

 

Have not yet read the book but that decreases my urge to buy this book even further from my first considerations. Not by much though, as my expectations for the Ultramarines have lowered for quite some time now.

 

Might buy it though for the World Eaters action though, I've been developing an interest in them.

Please don't let me put you off! The book is very entertaining and the Ultramarines are never seen to be fools. There are 2 Legions involved and the Ultramarines have limited numbers.

 

Like I mentioned earlier I had no problem with them getting a beating and A D-B acknowledged and explained the 2 technical points I was critical of, to such a point I actually changed my mind. (no I'm not a sycophant!)

 

Thing is with the Heresy is the loyalists are desperate. The Ultramarines fleet was wounded and in tatters. The Ultramarines themselves are fewer in number than ever before.

 

Makes me want to know what Guilliman's plans are with Sanguinius and the rest of the forces he's gathering. I think Guilliman learns from these events as it's set immediately before/adjacent to Fear to Tread...

[greatcrusade08]

I feel a little rotten now! Please, don't think I'm doing the whole "my favourite didn't win -WAH!" thing. Like mentioned earlier the parts were done superbly (I read the book in 2 days even with 2 kids!). The book is a favorite of mine.

You have two now?

wow congrats, i truelly have been away from the boards for too long :P

 

i must admit ive been trolling the interwebz for reviews on this, and although i havent read it yet, im aching to do so.

Its nice that A-D-B hangs around to discuss his work, you cant buy that kind of commitment, big thumbs up from me.

 

of course youll never be able to escape the OTT fanbois, most of whom will celebrate ultras losing or whine that guilliman appears stronger than he should.

but i dont much care for those guys tbh, if its a good story and believeable within the setting then im a happy bunny

[Captain Idaho]

It's hard to write a credible story whilst ensuring no side really comes off badly (someone's got to lose!) but this book certainly paints a picture of relentless attrition against the World Eaters despite achieving victory.

 

Another interesting moment:

 

 

Perpetuals - enough said!

 

[Marshall Bretton]

yeah what the hell is with those?! that is the thing i want to know more about in the series than anything else, what are they?!

[the jeske]

Try reading the book

They're berserkers in combat, not every day of their lives. SW are barbarians with a relentless fury and calculated tacticians. Night Lords are cold blooded murderers.

As for the rest of the story; Ultramarines aren't the only Imperial soldiers on the battlefield.

I did . I dont see no difference . Both dudes go in to frenzy in melee and act "normal" outside of it . In all HH books both attack the same way , in unstopable waves . Only the WE ones are called crazy and the others called as said it calculated. For me that kind of a blurs the difference between legions , plus kills a lot of old fluff , although I do understand why this is done for a book .

most of whom will celebrate ultras losing or whine that guilliman appears stronger than he should.

but i dont much care for those guys tbh,

you know he kind of beats one primarch then fights two to a stand still for a very long time, when one of them is angron and every primarch knew he was a monster in melee. But it is logical , people may not like it , but it is true to fluff.

[Leonaides]

Jeske - Khorne was never only about "KILLKILLKILL!!!!!", he was/is the God of War/Blood/Murder - a Khornate Lord can just as easily be a tactical genius who, by his command of his armies, causes far more blood to be spilt to his God than he could ever do himself with an axe (for example). If you like it, the frothing loonie with a choppy thing is one of the lower worshipers, even a Bloodthirster can play the long game for  a bigger kill-count overall if necessary...

[Gree]

 

 

I could live with a bit of failure and disaster but it seemed the Ultramarines failed in every way.

 

Have not yet read the book but that decreases my urge to buy this book even further from my first considerations. Not by much though, as my expectations for the Ultramarines have lowered for quite some time now.

 

Might buy it though for the World Eaters action though, I've been developing an interest in them.

 

Please don't let me put you off! The book is very entertaining and the Ultramarines are never seen to be fools. There are 2 Legions involved and the Ultramarines have limited numbers.

 

Like I mentioned earlier I had no problem with them getting a beating and A D-B acknowledged and explained the 2 technical points I was critical of, to such a point I actually changed my mind. (no I'm not a sycophant!)

 

Thing is with the Heresy is the loyalists are desperate. The Ultramarines fleet was wounded and in tatters. The Ultramarines themselves are fewer in number than ever before.

 

Makes me want to know what Guilliman's plans are with Sanguinius and the rest of the forces he's gathering. I think Guilliman learns from these events as it's set immediately before/adjacent to Fear to Tread...

 

It doesn't change the fact that the Ultramarines are still getting kicked around, just as is Know No Fear. Giving a good fight does not change the fact that they are still losing and dying. So far the track record for the Ultramarines so far in this series is not looking good.

 

I mean, that's somewhat disappointing for me, but asI've said before, I've long since ceased to be a fan of Guilliman or his Ultramarines, so the Ultramarines getting killed isn't that big of a drawback. In a sense I may buy the book really for the World Eaters and not the XIII Legion.

Makes me want to know what Guilliman's plans are with Sanguinius and the rest of the forces he's gathering. I think Guilliman learns from these events as it's set immediately before/adjacent to Fear to Tread...

I heard Guilliman wanted to make Sanguinius the new Emperor or something if Terra fell and the Emperor was lost, but I have't been playing too much attention to the Blood Angels of late so I don't know if that's true.