Next Space Wolf codex?

[Wolf Guard Dan]

 

 

• Logan's axe of morkai rules fixed, because at the moment he is swinging at I 1 regardless if he's using it as a P-fist or Frost axe ( if this is been changed recently let me know)

It says frost blade in the rule so you use the rules for a frost blade (sword).

Heimdall is correct. It even says so in the FAQ.  GW was very deliberate in their description in wording it as a "frost blade"

 

"Q: If Logan Grimnar chooses to wield the Axe Morkai in one hand,

does it count as a frost blade (as mentioned in the special rule) or a

frost axe (as implied by the weapon’s name and the model itself)? (p56)

A: A frost blade" GW FAQ

[Jarl Deathwolf]

To be able to swing an axe at Int. This irks me to know end still. How the bloody hell is an axe "unwieldy"?!? A giant fist, yes. A giant hammer, yes. An axe width a blade with the same as a sword, NO!

An axe is unwieldly because the weight is centered in one part: The axe head. It makes you strike with greater force (hence the +1 strength), but it makes you slower to recover from your attacks. A sword is more balanced, allowing for faster attacks, with reduced punching power. But, I like hitting harder rather than faster, so AXES FOR EVERYBODY!

But anyway, I like my codex the way it is except for a few things:

- Blood Claws need to change to make it competitive to field them. Otherwise, I field them for the glory of fielding 18~ marines (15 BC + sarge + HQs)

- I want Wolf Scouts to assault from reserve, precise shot with sniper rounds on a 5+, and have camo cloaks. I am willing to get a price increase for all that.

- Thunderwolves should have cheaper equipment, or cheaper base. Everytime I try to field them, they cost a large fraction of my army, with their leader and all.

- Moar sagas! Mainly for the Dreadnoughts, as they are supposed to be ancient heroes, with sagas longer and more glorious than anybody else, hence why they became dreadnoughts.

- 13th Company. Right now, I have to field Death Company and use a drop pod, which is proxied as a portal to the warp. I can't assault out of a Drop Pod.

- I need something to shoot flyers out of the sky. Preferably not a flyer, but I wouldn't be adverse to getting one if they couldn't give me anything else. Maybe a psyker power that works like Tempest's Wrath, and works against flyers too?

[MaveriK]

To be able to swing an axe at Int. This irks me to know end still. How the bloody hell is an axe "unwieldy"?!? A giant fist, yes. A giant hammer, yes. An axe width a blade with the same as a sword, NO!

An axe is unwieldly because the weight is centered in one part: The axe head. It makes you strike with greater force (hence the +1 strength), but it makes you slower to recover from your attacks. A sword is more balanced, allowing for faster attacks, with reduced punching power. But, I like hitting harder rather than faster, so AXES FOR EVERYBODY!

CSM chainaxes are referred to as melee, yet force axe Unwieldy..... Anyway, to be fair, smaller axes have been used throughout history from vikings to native americans. The smaller axes are easier to carry, easier to use and just as quick as using a sword type.

Now game-wise/rule-wise I honestly feel there should be a proper breakdown on blade types. From frost weapons both axe and sword, force weapons both sword and axe and standard melee swords and axes. I know Frost weapons are considered power weapons but they are unique to Fenris and should stay as-is without all that nonsense of Unwieldy over-complicated mainstream commercialized 6th edition ideology. If you really wanted to get down to the reasoning as to why frost weapons should stay as-is, Fenrisians are taught how to handle and carry an axe when they are first able to hold one as a young child. Now tell me how in the world can a enhanced super human, wearing power armour can't use an axe as fast as someone using a sword type LMAO

[frostclaw222]

Deathwolf, I'd forgotten about camo-cloaks. While I agree that OBEL should return to how it was, I worry that asking for the 5+ precision shot would lead to OBEL not changing. At this point, most lists I see that have Wolf Scouts are using snipers due to the OBEL nerf. If they improve the sniper side of the pack, I doubt they'll fix OBEL. Would make Wolf Scouts too versatile, unless their points were significantly jacked. 

 

I agree that Blood Claws need something to make them a valid choice beyond fluffy reasons, but I think Games Development is looking at the Wolf Priest as sort of an auto-include for a full-sized pack, and his effects sort of improve the Claws to the point where any improvement on them might swing wildly out of whack through that particular enhancement synergy. 

 

As for 13th Company, I think you're stuck waiting for a Supplement til you see packs of Wulfen, but we might see a shift on the Mark of the Wulfen in the near term. I think just giving someone with the Mark a random number of attacks is kind of a punt by Development, when what we should see is something more fury-over-matter, without adding a second wound to the model. Perhaps a 6+ FNP and +1d3 extra attacks? I dunno; might be too powerful, even if the cost is adjusted.

 

Been thinking about how to make Lone Wolves more reflective of the fluff, and here's my first swag. Would appreciate feedback.

 

Tweak A Glorious Death to read as follows: A Lone Wolf has the Eternal Warrior and Feel No Pain rules. Until such time as a Lone Wolf has attacked or been attacked by an enemy walker, monstrous creature, or model with a Toughness of 5 or more, the Lone Wolf also has the It Will Not Die rule. 

 

This would better reflect the onus on the Lone Wolf to seek a death worthy of note, without unduly turning him into an over-powered unit. All that changes is the LW's desire for a glorious death allows him to shrug off desultory small arms fire and the piddly attacks of warriors of no significance. Given that he's only got W2, he's still able to be dealt with fairly easily, but this adds a sense of endurance despite his seeking a glorious death. 

 

Thoughts?

[frostclaw222]

One last remark:

 

Seeking a change to the axe/sword rules is unlikely to encounter success. The rule is across-the-board, and while I understand some SW players' dislike for it, it is what it is, and not likely to change. 

 

However, I would like to see the old 3rd edition base +2 add to come back, making frost swords +2, and frost axes +2+1/+3 for the Unwieldy add. Would provide a better stratification in our special melee weapons, so that there are clear steps between power weapons, frost weapons, and specialist weapons like fists and thunder hammers. 

[Jarl Deathwolf]

I was thinking that if I get everything I want out of Wolf Scouts, they'd be bumped up to 20 points a model, or at least 18. which I'm fine with, really. Its not like I'm going to field 3 packs of 10 of the guys.

I am in the same boat with Frost weapons. They are uniquely Space Wolfy and I used to field them A LOT. Now it just isn't really worth the points, especially with the Frost Axe.

I like that better for the Lone Wolf, as Kill Points rarely matter anymore, and sometimes I take a wound at the beginning and get killed four turns later because of it.

I've heard one idea for weapons (on the forums) is that you have Unwieldy be like Bulky - there are stages of it. Like Unwieldy: -1 Init, Very Unwieldy: -2 Init, etc. The problem I see with that is that Power Axes and Power Fists would be become a rock-paper-scissors with challenges and vehicles. If you get a power fist, you will strike last, but be able to kill vehicles and monsters. If a character gets a power axe, though, they'd hit before you and kill you. So they would excel in challenges. If the Power Axe went up against a vehicle... you'd better hope they have low AV. Or just start crying as you lob krak grenades at it.

[Valerian]

I like the 6e distinction in Power Weapons- it works well, and there are trade offs that you actually have to weigh against each other to pick which one will work best for you. That said, it simply doesn't work for various Frost Weapons, at least not when they're priced the same as a Power Fist, then the Frost Axe loses out every time, despite the potential extra attack from not being a specialist weapon.

 

The Dark Angels codex, however, has implemented several Chapter-specific close combat weapons, and would be a good indicator of how ours could be done. Based on theirs, I'd expect that we'd get more than just Frost Weapons, though, as Space Wolves only gear.

 

As an example, I could foresee stats for Frost Blades to be S+2, AP3, Melee, Shred. Frost Axes could then be S+2, AP2, Melee, Shred, Unwieldy.

 

I'd like to see Frostfang be a Master-Crafted version of a "standard" Frost Weapon, and I hope we get to see some of the old 2e Wargear Cards as Chapter Relics (e.g. Torgarl's Plasma Blade, the Hood of Gnyrll, the Pelt of Wulfen, the Wulfen Stone, Hrulf's Hood of Darkness,, the Helm of Durfast, etc.)

 

As for Wolf Scouts, I'd love for them to get some much-needed attention, but are there any units in the game that can Assault out of Reserves now? It seems that ability has been eradicated in 7e, so I doubt we'd get to be an exception. A shame, too, since I uses to run two large Wolf Scouts packs in 5e.

 

V

[Valerian]

Blood Claws are easy to fix. Keep the Berserk Charge (now Rage), but get rid of Headstrong. Then makes their weapons choices the inverse/opposite of Grey Hunters, so while Hunters can take one SCCW and two Special Weapons in a maxed pack, allow Claws (Blood, Sky, and Swift) to take one Special Weapon, but two SCCWs in a maxed pack. Then they'd be internally balanced, and folks wouldn't hesitate to take a pack or two.

 

Valerian

[Mammon]

Would totally back Valerian's idea for 2nd Edition Wargear Cards. Still have the Codex on my shelf. Why not ask for a few more special characters too? 

 

 6th Edition is shaping up to be one of the more exciting eras of Warhammer 40k. We are seeing several changes all across the spectrum. I am happy with the alterations to the CCWs, combined with Challenges it has really changed how the game flows in Close Combat without breaking it. Frost Blades will be reworked; as they are, they are great for accepting challenges but nothing you would give to your squad. For the first time since 4th Edition I am starting to kit my standard GH and BC with a powerfist so I don't lose it to a challenge!

 

* I also concur with you, Valerian, concerning the BC's weapons mix. It makes sense. 

[Quillen]

The last rule book stopped me playing for 3 years now. No interest. A nerfing of the Dex and all I have seen in the last few years is nerfing and point jumps makes me dread the new Dex which is due out in March of next year, if rumors are true. So at the present I almost feel like saying, "Who Cares!" And that is so sad. I still make the models. Just no interest in competing these days. Screw GW.

[Grimtooth]

May of next year is rumoured release, not March.

[Spacefrisian]

To be able to swing an axe at Int. This irks me to know end still. How the bloody hell is an axe "unwieldy"?!? A giant fist, yes. A giant hammer, yes. An axe width a blade with the same as a sword, NO!

An axe is unwieldly because the weight is centered in one part: The axe head. It makes you strike with greater force (hence the +1 strength), but it makes you slower to recover from your attacks. A sword is more balanced, allowing for faster attacks, with reduced punching power. But, I like hitting harder rather than faster, so AXES FOR EVERYBODY!

But anyway, I like my codex the way it is except for a few things:

- Blood Claws need to change to make it competitive to field them. Otherwise, I field them for the glory of fielding 18~ marines (15 BC + sarge + HQs)

- I want Wolf Scouts to assault from reserve, precise shot with sniper rounds on a 5+, and have camo cloaks. I am willing to get a price increase for all that.

- Thunderwolves should have cheaper equipment, or cheaper base. Everytime I try to field them, they cost a large fraction of my army, with their leader and all.

- Moar sagas! Mainly for the Dreadnoughts, as they are supposed to be ancient heroes, with sagas longer and more glorious than anybody else, hence why they became dreadnoughts.

- 13th Company. Right now, I have to field Death Company and use a drop pod, which is proxied as a portal to the warp. I can't assault out of a Drop Pod.

- I need something to shoot flyers out of the sky. Preferably not a flyer, but I wouldn't be adverse to getting one if they couldn't give me anything else. Maybe a psyker power that works like Tempest's Wrath, and works against flyers too?

Have you ever seen viking axes? Its bull that Axes let you swing slower than a sword.

[Ozeryk_Sleipnijr]

Could it be that the Great Company rules in Apocalypse rules indicate the special rules that our army would be getting.

The Space Wolves get to reroll their charges and reroll to/hit in the defensive snapfire phase. I would be very happy with that . . ..

[Rift Blade]

THat would be cool & keeping in line with some of what GW has been doing. All the 6 Ed codexs seem to have something unique to them. I'm just not going to think about it. I still don't believe we are going to a new Dex so soon after waiting so long for the last one but one can always hope.

[frostclaw222]

I think May 14 (at the present rate of codex and supplement releases) is probably pretty accurate, particularly given the anti-air gap in our present dex. 

 

Given the Apocalypse rules are conferring the charge and defensive fire re-rolls, I doubt we'll see that in the dex. Otherwise, the formation's benefits would be diminished. However, something that synergizes with those re-rolls might be in the cards. 

 

As for 13th, the more I think about it, the more the 13th (and perhaps another lost company or two) might be supplements. Or maybe GW does Great Company supplements for Logan and Ragnar? Maybe Harald? In theory, given that we have 12 (13) GCs, they could fold the differences in their composition into the main dex, or into one supplement. Of course, if they did that, any small amount of variance in armylist and/or rules would allow for a seriously huge shift in army composition. Additionally, we could actually see some sort of "Company of the Great Wolf" breakout, that actually bridges the divide between 40k and Apoc, since all the priests belong to the Great Wolf's company. Rune Priest squads might be a possibility, or coteries of Iron Priests, toting the oldest relics from the deepest depths of the Fang. Sure, will likely be saved for an Apoc supplement, but it's interesting to consider. 

 

Something to think about as we run up to May... Rumor has it that Spring 14 could see IG and Orks, with an emphasis on Armageddon, possibly including another warzone supplement. Having the Wolves occur right afterward could lead to an Armageddon I supplement, too. Or, a 13th Black Crusade supplement, which would open the doors for the 13th Company. We keep hearing about some sort of master plan in the release schedule. If that's true, those are the two points of synergy I can see as possibilities. 

[montegue]

Hi! I mundanely study period swordplay and do work as a fight director professionally for Opera and Theatre. I can say without hesitation that an axe designed for actual combat isn't significantly slower or faster than a sword. It's a game balance thing, and clearly not intended to reflect anything reality based. Swords are fast. Axes are fast. Maces are fast to strike but somewhat slow to recover. At the end of the day, however, everything more or less hits in the same tempo as everything else, assuming we're talking hand weapons here. 

 

[Jarl Deathwolf]

Hi! I mundanely study period swordplay and do work as a fight director professionally for Opera and Theatre. I can say without hesitation that an axe designed for actual combat isn't significantly slower or faster than a sword. It's a game balance thing, and clearly not intended to reflect anything reality based. Swords are fast. Axes are fast. Maces are fast to strike but somewhat slow to recover. At the end of the day, however, everything more or less hits in the same tempo as everything else, assuming we're talking hand weapons here. 

 

 

I want to argue this, but I have no formal education in melee weapons. I bow to your superior knowledge, Montegue. 

 

Anyway, I completely forgot about artifacts. The Chaos Lord I continually face has both the Axe of Blind Fury and the Burning Brand of Skalthrax, so I would like something equally flashy to counter this.  I also wish that they had said something along the lines of "Only one artifact per army", as one guy holding two completely unique weapons in a vast galaxy of death and mayhem seems kinda unlikely. Esp. considering how fast he dies in combat with my Thunder Lord.

[Apahllo]

Personally I'd like the stormRAVEN, to be in our codex now! But whatever, the balance of fliers doesn't seem like its going to be changed(fixed) anytime soon so I really don't care what we get as long as it flies I'm sure it'll do the trick. Transport is the concept I'm looking for.

 

If bloodclaws get better, I'm going to be the happiest person on the planet because I almost never leave home without them. They are so so deadly and completely underestimated.

I want the iron priest to have the IC rule and maybe 2 wounds(PLEASE) or just let arjac get the special rules for iron priests.

 

I think with the troops of various spacemarine chapters getting cheaper, the space wolves will see a few units drop in price like wolf scouts and maybe the wolfgaurd upgrades...

Bjorn should get a pod...

Lords to 4 wounds... Maybe not but a saga for the 4th wound would be cool...

Lucas and arjac points drop please...

 

Ok ok I'm done, rant over

 

 I also wish that they had said something along the lines of "Only one artifact per army", as one guy holding two completely unique weapons in a vast galaxy of death and mayhem seems kinda unlikely. Esp. considering how fast he dies in combat with my Thunder Lord.

Lololololololololol

Roflstomp

[Ikken]

personaly i want my venerable HQ back .

[MalachiOfRuss]

Wolf Lords will not go to W4... Logan might.  I don't think GW is ever going to let a unit charge from reserves.  We might get access to the new SM special weapons, we'll likely get new Sagas and unique "Chapter Relics" and then 1 or 2 new units of some kind.  One of them likely being some kind of flyer or anti-flyer unit.

 

Oh and we'll have our own psychic lore, prepare yourself for Jaws to be severely nerfed if it still exists at all.

[Kassill]

Wolf Lords will not go to W4... Logan might.  I don't think GW is ever going to let a unit charge from reserves.  We might get access to the new SM special weapons, we'll likely get new Sagas and unique "Chapter Relics" and then 1 or 2 new units of some kind.  One of them likely being some kind of flyer or anti-flyer unit.

 

Oh and we'll have our own psychic lore, prepare yourself for Jaws to be severely nerfed if it still exists at all.

 

 

Probably be you'll have to roll for it, meaning no guaranteed 3-4 Jaw priests running around.

[logun]

Wolf Lords will not go to W4... Logan might. I don't think GW is ever going to let a unit charge from reserves. We might get access to the new SM special weapons, we'll likely get new Sagas and unique "Chapter Relics" and then 1 or 2 new units of some kind. One of them likely being some kind of flyer or anti-flyer unit.

Oh and we'll have our own psychic lore, prepare yourself for Jaws to be severely nerfed if it still exists at all.

Logan better get four wounds.

was looking at a certain dark angels chapter master the other day, who shall remain nameless(the bloke in the beige skirt). and for sixty less points he get 4 wounds, a table wide leadership bubble, some other table wide bubble, 4+ invulnerable to his squad.

logun will still rip him up in a fight which is worth the 60 points but i want my 4th wound and some table wide bubbles please.

and the scouts not being able to charge when they come on really sucks. but i'm hoping for a few upgrades that could possibly make up for this, for instance a demolition charge or two(asking to much?). at least give them cloaks and the stealth rule.

some kind of flying transport(with the ability to take TDA guys) is what i would like to see. access to the new AA tanks and flak missiles would be enough for me, maybe even a psychic power that is able to hit flyers as well.

chapter relics sounds cool.

[Rift Blade]

Just a thought(I'm not awake yet but what the ...), It looks like Bugs will probably be redone before we will & if anyone is gonna get the ability to charge out of reserve, it will be them. So maybe after they get released & everyone cries over them being able to charge out of reserve, our Scouts will a nice little fix with the same rule?!? I'm dreaming I know but like I said, I'm not awake yet. LOL!!

[Kassill]

That is a good point Rift. And it would be fitting for them.

[MalachiOfRuss]

 

Wolf Lords will not go to W4... Logan might.  I don't think GW is ever going to let a unit charge from reserves.  We might get access to the new SM special weapons, we'll likely get new Sagas and unique "Chapter Relics" and then 1 or 2 new units of some kind.  One of them likely being some kind of flyer or anti-flyer unit.

 

Oh and we'll have our own psychic lore, prepare yourself for Jaws to be severely nerfed if it still exists at all.

 

 

Probably be you'll have to roll for it, meaning no guaranteed 3-4 Jaw priests running around.

 

Oh you'll definitely have to roll for it - it won't be the Primaris Power for sure (probably the "6").  It will also likely be 2 Warp Charges and not be an "instant death" mechanic anymore.  They seem to have been removing those mechanics from the game in 6th.  I'd be happy if Living Lightning was the Primaris.

 

Also, be prepared for the Runic Weapon psychic defense to be severely nerfed - look what they did to Runes of Warding.