Help against IG

[Nasse]

Okay, so I have a game of 40k set up for this weekend, 1000 points against Imperial Guard. My list consist heavily of Deathwing with a Ravenwing Attack Squadron and a tactical squad with a librarian for support because I'm poor.

Now if I can guess right, he's gonna have a ton of mechanized vets supported by those multi-missile launching tanks. I wanted to know if I even have a chance for a draw? I've played against him with my Dark Eldar previously and I was utterly devastated. By turn 4 I had barely silenced his missiles and hadn't even touched his mech troops! What units are best for dealing with armies like this?

[Rizara]

Take a cyclone missile launcher on the death wing unit, dw assault them with the primary target being his manticore. Your ravenwing element needs to focus on popping the transports. If you can take a meltagun on the bikes and a multimelta attack bike. Get him hoofing it and out of transports and try remove entire troop units. You will be outnumbered but you have better armor and high toughness. I assume you are taking Belial so attach him to the squad that deep strikes in so they can land accurately. Just remember, manticore should be your primary target. It doesn't,t have to be destoyed just pray its weapon system gets knocked out. Assault cannon can be good to if oh can get a rear shot. As for your army you can,t really afford to go towards objectives per say, he will outnumber you so opt to remove him from getting objectives, then go for at least one after you have removed his troops. Really hard to say what exactly to take as I don't know what you can take, and what the if player has in his list other than what you have mentioned. Best of luck

[Tenebris]

The more points an IG commander invests in vehicles the less bodies he has to crew them. Pop the armor and watch his veterans exposed to your fire. Veterans come in three flavors on a mech list, plasma vets, melta vets and flamer vets with three special weapons for squad. Indentify the Chimeras which carry the dreaded plasma and flamers and pop them first, than find out which Chimera has the melta vets and stay as far as possible from it with your vehicles. Use your alpha strike to destroy his Manticore (a nasty bugger) and his most dangerous veterans. Split fire can be of great help to you here.

 

As an old school IG player I know what brand of punishment the IG can deliver but also the tricks to win against them. And the tricks are to have a clear target priority and destroy units piecemeal. The soft sport of the Guard is its discipline, kill two or three veterans and you force the squad to roll for discipline, if they are unlucky and a commissar is nearby a sergeant dies. 

 

A note for all terminator players, Deathwing included. The true killer of terminators is the humble lasgun. A squad can force a ton of saves for your terminators and they will quickly loose some. In this game you will have to focus mostly on the storm bolter, use it to fire tons of shells on the squads while you use the heavy weapons to pop vehicles with split fire. 

 

A flamer build is great too, in fact it is perfect to fight the guard. 

 

So to recap:

 

- Identify the passengers of each Chimera, beware of plasma, avoid the melta and keep an eye for three flamers. Range will be everything in this battle.

 

- Exploit the weakness of the guard, discipline. Inflict casualities to force discipline checks, they are bound to loose some if there is no commissar or officer nearby.

 

- Manticore: S 10, AP 4, 24''-120'', A perfect target to deepstrike nearby and thus be under its range.

 

- Chimera: 12, 10, 10, Terminator Storm Bolters have a chance to glance the rear, keep in mind when you Split Fire.

[Nasse]

The more points an IG commander invests in vehicles the less bodies he has to crew them. Pop the armor and watch his veterans exposed to your fire. Veterans come in three flavors on a mech list, plasma vets, melta vets and flamer vets with three special weapons for squad. Indentify the Chimeras which carry the dreaded plasma and flamers and pop them first, than find out which Chimera has the melta vets and stay as far as possible from it with your vehicles. Use your alpha strike to destroy his Manticore (a nasty bugger) and his most dangerous veterans. Split fire can be of great help to you here.

 

As an old school IG player I know what brand of punishment the IG can deliver but also the tricks to win against them. And the tricks are to have a clear target priority and destroy units piecemeal. The soft sport of the Guard is its discipline, kill two or three veterans and you force the squad to roll for discipline, if they are unlucky and a commissar is nearby a sergeant dies. 

 

A note for all terminator players, Deathwing included. The true killer of terminators is the humble lasgun. A squad can force a ton of saves for your terminators and they will quickly loose some. In this game you will have to focus mostly on the storm bolter, use it to fire tons of shells on the squads while you use the heavy weapons to pop vehicles with split fire. 

 

A flamer build is great too, in fact it is perfect to fight the guard. 

 

So to recap:

 

- Identify the passengers of each Chimera, beware of plasma, avoid the melta and keep an eye for three flamers. Range will be everything in this battle.

 

- Exploit the weakness of the guard, discipline. Inflict casualities to force discipline checks, they are bound to loose some if there is no commissar or officer nearby.

 

- Manticore: S 10, AP 4, 24''-120'', A perfect target to deepstrike nearby and thus be under its range.

 

- Chimera: 12, 10, 10, Terminator Storm Bolters have a chance to glance the rear, keep in mind when you Split Fire.

Um, yes, about that...

I don't have any vehicles.

And last time I played him, he had three manticores. 

Anyway, so my current list is here, using almost all of my models:

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/273085-dark-angels-1000-points-help-needed/

Not including the DV IC and Company Master.

Of course I was thinking of getting either more terminators or something my local crafts store has to bolster my ranks, but I'm not sure how much money I will have, whether or not I'm gonna pre-purchase CoH 2, and what the crafts store even has in stock anymore.

 

I will however try to remember these points.

[Tenebris]

Hmm go flamer heavy. The plasma cannon can be switched for a heavy flamer and the plasma guns for something similar. Belial should go TH/SS and charge him in the Manticore while keep your two DW squads under the 24'' range, they should last for some turns, enough to use those powerfists of theirs to pop the Manticores.

 

Be aware that your opponent will expect you to do exactly that so I doubt that he will move his veterans in the first turn, well not over the Rapid Fire range.

 

The RW bikes can be used as a tank hunter unit if you give them a melta or as a flamer unit to clear his transports of survivors once the terminators will deal with them. I am unsure which role your tacticals will cover since they will be dangerously exposed to a whole range of weapons. I would say that you can use the points of the Librarian and the plasma cannons for something to deal with transports.

 

Hmm a Nephilim would be a scary thing for those points.   Forget that, too expensive.

 

Well the Librarian should go with the Tactical squad and use Divination to bolster their shooting but cling to cover like a madman for the Manticores will only be able to shoot this squad if you deep strike properly.

 

The first two turns are the most critical for you, he can afford to loose his infantry up to turn three than he will be hard pressed. Pop transport, charge squad and keep repeating until there is no one left of the Guard.

 

If you stay in melee you are safe from both his Manticores and his Plasma Guns. An important note, he will most certainly choose to sacrifice his sergeants in duels, be aware that a power fist will be wasted each turn on a sergeant so it is worth considering to get some lightning claws or power weapons to strike at higher initiative in the squad. 

 

Do not underestimate the Guard in melee, your terminators have power fists and they will strike last, before that you will be forced in many saves. 

[Nasse]

A Nephilim would be good/cool, but the crafts store hasn't stocked new models since...well they don't even have the new necrons. Unfortunately the local club is not enough to support the store's miniature sales, they only get paints these days, if even those.

I think they have some Dreadnoughts, Predators, Vindicators, Devastators, Land Raiders, veterans, some old metal figures no longer in production...

But at least their prices are still a few price hikes behind the current prices :D

Of course a Nephilim or the armoured spearhead (2 vindicators and one whirlwind I think?) would drain my whole half-month's pay.

[Tenebris]

Well have a read on the edited post than lets discuss on.

 

As for the addition, hmm, I would go for a shooty dreadnought than, it is fluffy for the DA and very versatile, cheaper also in points and money. Two autocannons can do wonders. 

[Nasse]

The cost-to-points ratio of Rhinos is the one reason I don't want to get one. 35 euro for 35-40-something points? I just can't justify it. I'm glad mechanized is not the only way to live anymore.

But yes, I've always wanted a dreadnought. I always drool over my friend's miniatures, especially when I see them assembled. I can barely keep my fingers off of them. I also considered a squad of assault terminators to make some close-combat specialist additions to my squad, and hopefully a terminator librarian with some left-overs from my deathwing command squad kits and various other sources.

And I've forgotten to mention it before, but the reason the tac squad is there to sit on my home base objective and hold it while I wreck the enemy's sh- stuff with my terminators and bikers in his deployment zone.

Unfortunately it won't work here of course, because he can lob his stuff across the board. 

 

I wonder though, should I DWA on the first or second turn? If I came in second, the 2nd terminator squad wouldn't have to scatter thanks to the biker's beacon, but if I came in 1st I could start disabling his vehicles from the start. I suppose since I have to remove his squads from the game at such a rapid pace (I have what, 25 models on the table against his 60-70?) first turn would be it?

[IndigoJack]

Keep in mind, that if you DWA second turn, you've just removed a whole turn of shooting against your terminators. I'm not saying either or, just something to consider.

[Brother Immolator]

Enscircle the transports when the oportunity presents iteself with your bikes, then proceed to assault them with melta bombs or melta guns. Once poped the cargo wont be able to make a forced dissembark due it have no access points free, therefore you can destroy entire squads in a single round.

[Nasse]

Keep in mind, that if you DWA second turn, you've just removed a whole turn of shooting against your terminators. I'm not saying either or, just something to consider.

That's true. However, I'd risk getting tabled in turn one with his everything bearing down on my tac squad and 3 bikers.

 

 

Enscircle the transports when the oportunity presents iteself with your bikes, then proceed to assault them with melta bombs or melta guns. Once poped the cargo wont be able to make a forced dissembark due it have no access points free, therefore you can destroy entire squads in a single round.

I'll have to remember that, sounds like a nasty move.

[IndigoJack]

Enscircle the transports when the oportunity presents iteself with your bikes, then proceed to assault them with melta bombs or melta guns. Once poped the cargo wont be able to make a forced dissembark due it have no access points free, therefore you can destroy entire squads in a single round.

 

Unfortunately, that doesn't work as well with melta weapons since you run the risk of blowing up the transport and providing a crater for them to disembark into.

[Brother Immolator]

 

Enscircle the transports when the oportunity presents iteself with your bikes, then proceed to assault them with melta bombs or melta guns. Once poped the cargo wont be able to make a forced dissembark due it have no access points free, therefore you can destroy entire squads in a single round.

 

Unfortunately, that doesn't work as well with melta weapons since you run the risk of blowing up the transport and providing a crater for them to disembark into.

Yup thats a risk, however even so there is barely enough space for all the models. If anything it helps to whitle them down. Plus not all of them will survive the explosion due to  their armor.

 

Also having them encircled they practicaly are out of the fight, awaiting to be charged. Yes they will shoot for one turn, but you cant avoid that.

[Aegnor]

Isn't there an argument for DWA first turn - while your DW are off the board, they're not doing anything useful, and you're likely letting at least one Manticore get an extra shot off in the meantime.

 

Also, in my experience Ravenwing squads become priority targets when your enemy knows you have incoming terminators. I don't think I've yet been able to get my Ravenwing into a position that is useful for DS-ing AND had them survive til the next turn.

[Nasse]

Yes, I decided to DWA on the first turn, but that's the last of my worries right now.

[Aegnor]

Guess one other piece of advice is to not sweat it too much. If your opponent is spamming veterans in Chimeras and Manticores, he's obviously trying to take a pretty hard list. You've got the model collection you've got based on your priorities for your money. Try to have fun, try some stuff and enjoy the game on that basis.

 

Is it a friendly, or is there something riding on this? Will he let you proxy things like a weapons on a model (eg calling the plasma gun on the DV Ravenwing squad a melta, having a CML on a terminator) or does it all need to be WYSIWYG?

[Nasse]

We once proxied High Elf white lions as Dark Eldar incubi. So no, I don't think it's too strict on WYSIWYG. I was just asking for advice because I want to get back at him after that humiliating defeat.

Of course now he decides to bring Valkyries instead of Manticores...

[Tenebris]

In fact it is easier now. If you deep strike in his half of the board his Valkyries are almost useless since you are under their range and they have to fly over you. The lascannons are a tough nut but if you equip your squads with one or two TH/SS models than you can use their 3++ to minimize the damage from the flyer weapons.

 

Indeed your tactical squad will eat most of the enemy fire and you should be very careful with cover and line of sight to cut the losses to minimum. Again a Dreadnought with twin-linked autocannons can be a nice addition to your army, his flyers will focus on it and its weapons have a chance to score several hits. 

 

Assault Cannons are also a great thing if he brings fliers, just force some saves and if something gets trough he is in trouble. Still keep in melee every turn that it is possible, avoid a direct line of sight to your tactical squad and keep your Ravenwing squadron always on the move. Hunt rear armor with your bikers and be smart with Split Fire, in melee try to kill his special weapons guardsmen if possible with some clever positioning.

 

While the Librarian if of some benefit with Divination to the tactical squad I think that his points should better be used to buy a dreadnought. The other 60 points should be easy to find in your army if you swap all those plasma weapons for flamers, melta guns or missile launchers. 

[Nasse]

Oh yes, I forgot to mention, but if I can muster enough reinforcements we can up the points to 1250; my opponent is bringing both lists, so I wouldn't have to necessarily drop anything.

Edit: And I'm not saying he will bring Valkyries, just that I remember him carrying a box for one. He might, but I presume he'll bring the missile spam.

[Rizara]

Not to mention, the valkyries don't arrive till turn 2 or later, so that gives you first turn to pop all his transports on the board and burn through some troops.  Manticores have a minimum range to fire, this leaves anything outside of 24 inches of them exposed to fire, but anything under he can't shoot at.  So your termies and bikes can easily close the distance, your tac squad on the other hand will be left out in the open, so they need to stay in cover.  My suggestion is to break the 10 man tac squad into two smaller 5 mans with a lascannon in each.  Put them in cover and turn them into mini deve squad.  they are basically shooting down long range to help pop another manticore, while termies/ravenwing focus down a second.  If your inside his deployment zone,even on a 4ft board, it will most likely not be able to shoot with the third depending on if you focus on the two outside manticore.  This leaves the manticore in the middle basically have to move or fireing at the tacs in cover.    If he takes 3, they will either all be clumpped together, or spread out, meaning only the two on the edge can fire and give support to units attacking the other flank, due to their minimum range.  Eitherway, you could effective remove two manticore that first turn, leaving the rest of your turns to focus on his chimeria/last manticore.    In a 1000 point game, it seems he plays to win, and is spamming units, so you have to play against his strategy.  As mentioned, if he is playing mech, he doesn't have alot of bodies, thus not as many lasguns, and his units he is playing is designed with long range in mind.  Remember your ravenwing will get a jink roll, so they need to move 12 inches or more, which easily helps them clear the board, and if your bikes wont be in range to fire a melta, then turboboost them instead first turn.   Close the gap, get under his range, and open the tin cans.    While heavy flamers are nice, you also have to remember death wing can't assault that first turn they arrive via deathwing assault, but their guns are twinlinked.  This means you need to bring somethign that can punch those tanks at a short distance. 

 

This means, if you play it right, Ravenwing anti tank should pop a chimeria if possible, deathwing anti tank should focus on manticore, if the ravenwing were able to expose a veteran squad, split fire and shoot the open squad with twin linked storm bolters.  Also try to get the deathwing in the rear shot of several tanks, this way they can attempt to split fire if need be and shoot at the rear armor, which is often a 10.  Pretty easy to get some 6s for glances on chimerias and other tanks with twin linked stormbolters.  

 

best of luck.

[Nasse]

Now I'm excited; the store that sold Warhammers here is having a clearance sale on them: 20% off of all figures! Of course this has taken it's toll on their stock; they only have a box of DA veterans, a box of sniper scouts, a Dreadnought and a box of Close Combat terminators left. I could get a predator too, but it's the chaos version.

I'm gonna have a field day tomorrow when I get my wage.

[Rizara]

well get the chaos version, the only difference is it comes with a sprue for the chaos spikey bits, otherwise its the exact same kit as a normal predator. 

[Brother Immolator]

well get the chaos version, the only difference is it comes with a sprue for the chaos spikey bits, otherwise its the exact same kit as a normal predator. 

And the lascannons are bit...dragony.

[Nasse]

 

well get the chaos version, the only difference is it comes with a sprue for the chaos spikey bits, otherwise its the exact same kit as a normal predator. 

And the lascannons are bit...dragony.

I thought the dragon heads for the guns were a part of the Chaos spiky sprue?

[Gillyfish]

Last I heard they were, but I honestly don't know. The DA can do ornate, so don't sweat it if they are daemonic faces. :)