Doomgivers (Alt Timeline)

[Lord Marshal Ragnrok]

This is a drafting thread for my Doomgivers Legion. All rights reserved. Feedback Welcome!

 

Note: For some reason the text below, which is from a word doc, did not paste perfectly.  You should still be able to understand it, but if you have questions please feel free to ask.

 

 

Doomgivers Legion Structure and Organization

Legion Command: The Lord Marshal

§ 
Legion HQ is the operating base or naval vessel
of the Commanding Officer (The Lord Marshal or First Marshal with Mournival, if
The Lord Marshal is away)

§ 
If above are N/A then it is The Vigilant and
then Lorn V

§ 
The Dark Council

§ 
Consists of 12 members: the Mournival and the
First Captain of the Legion, Ancient of Rites, Regent of Lorn V, Legion
Ancient, Master of the Forge, Castellan of The Vigilant, Chief Apothecary,
Senior Representative of the Fleet

§ 
They form an elite cadre of senior officers who
help lead the Legion

§ 
The members of the Mournival are the ranked
above all other members of the Dark Council

• The
  Mournival

• Each
  member is given the title/rank of Marshal: First Marshal (2^nd
  in Command of the Legion), Chief Sorcerer, Master of the Immortals and Master
  of Sanctity.

• Ancients/Consuls
  of the Legion (Senior Staff Officer Cadre)

• Ancients
  (Legion Ancients, Standard Bearers, Equerries, Ancient Venerable Dreadnaughts)

• First
  Marshal and First Captain of the Legion are both Equerries to The Lord
  Marshal

• Ancient
  of Rites – Revered Venerable Dreadnaught, Ancient Rylanor

• formerly
  of the Emperor’s Children, survived Heresy and placed in secret slubber
  by The Lord Marshal, until the formation of the Legion

• Responsible
  for guidance of aspirants and new members and watches his brothers for
  signs of treachery

• Works
  alongside Chaplains

• One
  of the most revered members of the Legion

• His
  existence is kept a secret to the outside (does not see battle)

• Close
  advisor to The Lord Marshal

• Senior
  representatives of the Armoury, Librarus/Sorcerer Cadre, Apothecarion,
  Masters of the Fleet, Master of the Forge, Castellan of The Vigilant,
  Regent of Lorn V.

• Regent
  of Lorn V – Saul Tarvitz

• formerly
  of the Emperor’s Children, survived the Heresy and recruited by The
  Lord Marshal

• his
  identity and existence is a closely guarded secret

• close
  advisor to The Lord Marshal

• Ghostshroud

• Legion
  Champion

• First
  Company

• Nominally
  First Chapter as it is under The Lord Marshal’s personal command

• Honour
  Guard

• Planetary
  Domains

• Primary
  Base is secretly occupied and fortified Lorn V

• The
  Vigilant (Ramilles Class
  Star-fort)

• The Soul Ravager (flagship battle
  barge)

• Several
  times larger than normal battle barges

• Can
  hold the entire First Chapter

• Operates
  under The Lord Marshal’s command, although often commanded by its
  captain

• Cruiser
  modified by sorcerous power and ancient technology

• Stronger
  and faster than any frigate should be

• Can
  call upon The Warp Kraken for a period of time

• Has
  its own space marine crew that operates independent of the rest of the
  legion and answers only to The Lord Marshal

• The
  Spectre Mortis (heavily modified stealth cruiser)

• Battle
  Barges, Battleships (Emperor, Retribution, Apocalypse, Oberon, Gloriana
  class), Battlecruisers (Armageddon, Mars, Overlord class), Strike
  Cruisers

• Cruisers
  (Lunar, Gothic), Grand Cruisers (Repulsive, Avenger class),
  Dauntless-class light cruisers

• Capital
  Class Warships

• Secondary Escort
  Vessels

• Led/represented
  by Master of the Forge

• All
  weapons, power armor, and vehicles

• Vehicles
  include: razorbacks, predators (including annihilator), whirlwinds,
  land raiders (all currently used moderns) and land speeders

• Led/represented
  by Chief Apothecary

• Dropships
  and Drop Pods

• Led
  by Chief Sorcerer

• Chief
  Sorcerer -> Legate Sorcerer/Librarian -> Cohort
  Sorcerer/Librarian -> Company Sorcerer/Librarian

• Led
  by Master of Sanctity/High Chaplain

• High
  Chaplain -> Legate Chaplains -> Company Chaplains

• Legion
  Armoury

• Legion
  Apothecarion

• Legion
  Librarus/Sorcerer Cadre

• Legion
  Chaplaincy

• Auxiliary
  Army (Ex-Imperial Guard units)

• Legion
  Support Corps (Victuallers, Commissary, Legion Serfs, Indentures, Servitors,
  etc.)

• Legion
  Assets:

Chapters – Each
Chapter consists of 1000 marines and follows the standard organization with the
exception of the First Chapter, elements of the First Marshal’s Chapter and The
Thousand Immortals (3^rd Chapter)

Legion Marines: about
12200

  Chapter I – First Chapter

• Under
  personal command of The Lord Marshal

• 1200
  marines, all veterans of the Legion

• Terminators
  of this chapter use both Cataphractii and Indomitus Pattern Terminator
  Armor

• Ghostshroud
  bodyguards

• heavily
  resemble Heresy Era Deathshroud and Justaerin

• First
  Company

• Company
  Commander: First Captain (of the legion)

• personal
  bodyguards/most elite veterans of Legion

• an
  entire company of warriors in terminator armor

• most
  resemble standard Imperial space marine terminators and Heresy Era
  Morlocks and modern uncorrupted Death Guard Terminators

• Second
  Company

• Companies
  follow normal structure with the defining exceptions listed here

• Large
  number of Armageddon Squads

• Companies
  3-12 of Legion are divided in to 2 battalions as normal

• Company
  assets are normal except for a higher number of high quality vehicles and
  equipment

  Chapter II

§ 
Under personal command of First Marshal (at
present – may not always be this particular chapter)

§ 
Personal bodyguards of First Marshal

§ 
Normal chapter organization

§ 
Companies 13-23

  Chapter III –
The Thousand Immortals

§ 
Lead by Lucius the Reborn

§ 
Usually stationed on The Vigilant when not
called to combat

§ 
Only called to battle by command of The Lord
Marshal

§ 
Only appear as full chapter

§ 
No battalions

§ 
Has its own independent companies called Centennials,
numbered 1-10 – therefore normal chapter-company organization skips 3^rd
chapter

§ 
Limited number of Rubric Terminators

§ 
All Rubric Marines (armored suits animated by
the resurrected souls of fallen warriors of the legion) lead by specially
trained Sorcerers

§ 
Chapter chaplains are specially trained to
commune with these fallen warriors

§ 
Very few armored vehicles, most support elements
are Reverent Dreadnaughts (those few who were so revered in life that their
souls are allowed to animate a dreadnaught’s body)

  Chapter IV (this chapter and all others adhere the
following structure)

§  Chapter
Command: Chapter Master
(Alternatively Lord Commander, Warsmith, or Dark Apostle based on preference)

§  Some of these titles are used at lower ranks,
but this does not present a problem as most Chapter Masters are known by name
or nickname/other title

§  Legate Chaplain

§  Legate Sorcerer/Librarian

§  Chapter Champion

§  Chapter IV consists of Companies 24-34 (all
chapters after the 3^rd follow normal company numbering)

• Battalion
  I

• Battalion
  Command: Commander

• Battalion
  Advisors

• Cohert
  Sorcerer/Librarian

§  Battalion
Standard Bearers

•  

• Battalion
  Command Unit/Bodyguard

• Battalion
  Assets:

• Naval
  vessels

• Drop
  Pods and Gunships

• Techmarine Covenants

• Apothecarion
  Sections

• Librarus
  Sections

• Reconnaissance
  Sections

• Five
  Companies

• Battalions
  number five companies, each of a hundred Legionaries – First Company
  of the battalion (not of legion) is composed of chapter Veterans and
  other elite units, II, III and IV are line (battle or assault)
  companies and the V Company is comprised entirely of specialist troops
  such as dedicated Assault, Devastator units (usually this is a Reserve
  Company)

• The
  CO of the first Company of each standard chapter held the rank of War
  Captain/Senior Captain.

• Company
  Command: Captain

• Company
  Standard Bearer

• Company
  Command Bodyguard Squad (up to 10 marines, Company Champion and one veteran
  sergeant)

• Company
  Assets:

• Heavy
  Support Squads (10 Space Marine Legionaries)

• Assigned
  Veteran or Specialist Squads (Various)

• Gunships

• Rhino
  or Razorback Armoured Transports

• Tank
  Detachments

• Fast
  Attack – Land Speeders

• Dreadnaughts

• Techmarines

• Apothecaries

• Company
  Sorcerer/Librarian(s)

• Company
  Chaplain

• 10
  Squads

• 10 marines led by a sergeant

• Tactical, assault, devastator, or
  Armageddon squad

• Companies may include specialist
  Armageddon Squads

• Most of these squads are
  veterans and so are more numerous in the veteran companies

• 10 marines with bolters and close
  combat weapons such as chain swords

• specialist combination of
  tactical and assault squads into one extremely flexible unit

• Battle Company organization (most
  of the legion)

• 6
  Tactical Squads

• 2
  Assault Squads

• 2
  Devastator Squads

 

• Assault
  Companies organization

• All Assualt squads

• may
  consist of space marine style assault marines, raptor style marines

• may
  include some assault terminators

• may
  or may not have jump packs

• Any
  company can be designated a Reserve Company

• Battalion
  II

• Last
  five companies of chapter

• Companies
  6-9 are line companies or reserve companies

• Last
  company is a reserve fast attack unit consisting of assault squads and
  land speeders (comparable to the Ravenwing of the Dark Angels)

• Recruitment
  and Training Unit – all scouts, usually assigned in small squads to
  companies throughout chapter

  Chapter V-XII

·        
Companies 35-122

[chillin]

Doomgivers are not a legion. Only the legions are legions, doomgivers would be a chaos army.

if your going to put that much work into them, you might as well call them the right thing

carry on.

[Lord Marshal Ragnrok]

no something can reach the strength of a legion and be called one. also there are warbands and loyalist chapters with the word legion in their names

[chillin]

You are incorrect sir. Only the pre-heresy, 1st founding, once primarch led,  LEGIONS are legions. Has nothing to do with reaching a certain "strength". If you can produce a codex, or book written by GW or BL that has a chapter, or warband or chaos army that is not one of the know 1st founding legions, with the word "legion" in their name will gladly admit I am wrong (and be shocked). Sure any one can make a DIY army and CALL it a legion, nothing to stop you, but it doesnt make it one,  and no one that knows anything about fluff and canon is going to believe you. You can call your VW an audi too, nothing to stop you, doesnt make it one, and no one that knows anything about cars is going to believe you.

But whatever

Have fun.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

If you want to call them the Doomgivers Legion, that's fine.  A rose by any other name smells just as sweet, and all that.  But this is a Chaos Marine forum, and there is only thing -- just one -- I could find in your document that sounds Chaotic, and that is that your head psyker is called a Sorcerer.  Oh and you said something Rubric Terminators too.  Everything else in your command structure on down uses Loyalist terminology, and in many cases contains elements they are no longer recognized by the Traitor Legions or most Chaos warbands.  Examples include Chaplains and a Master of Sanctity; how can a force committed to an unholy cause demand sanctity?  Some of your highest officers are titled Marshal; no Chaos Marine has ever used that term since it is the provenance of the Black Templars and the Adeptus Arbites.  You have Razorbacks and Land Speeders; not in service with Chaos Marines.  You have Devastator Squads; another Loyalist term, since similarly armed Chaos squads are called Havocs.

 

The size and structure of your force is also pretty amazing for a Chaos warband.  It uses a steel-clad structure and chain of command more reminiscent of a Loyalist force than a Traitor one.  You lay claim to over 12,000 Space Marines.  That's a force that could conquer an entire sector of the Imperium, hands-down, before a relief force could be raised, much less shipped off to fight you.  I mean, that's more force than the combined strength of every Loyalist Chapter sent to fight Huron Blackheart during the Badab War.  12,000 Marines is a HUGE number.  In fact, if not for that number, I'd have thought that was intended as a Loyalist force because the naming conventions and structure you've outlined.

 

And last but not least, Saul Tarvitz is dead.  He died on Istvaan III.  Even if he didn't, why would he fight for a Chaos Space Marine force, seeing as how he was loyal to the Imperium?  The same applies to Ancient Rylanor, who was also on Istvaan III (though he, at least, may have survived).  And why on God's Green Earth does this force, with no apparent connection to the Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus, have a body called the Mournival?

 

I'm sorry brother, I can see just how much work you've put into this, but it's not functional within the bounds of the fluff GW has given us.  It's like you took everything you liked about the first three books of the Horus Heresy series and threw it in a pot with the Black Templars and a few tid bits of Chaos stuff for flavor and set it to "mix."

[Vesper]

 

If you can produce a codex, or book written by GW or BL that has a

chapter, or warband or chaos army that is not one of the know 1st

founding legions, with the word "legion" in their name will gladly admit

I am wrong (and be shocked).

Legion of the Damned ?

Doom Legion ?

Mentor Legion ?

Tempest Legion ?

[Iron Father Ferrum]

You are incorrect sir. Only the pre-heresy, 1st founding, once primarch led, LEGIONS are legions. Has nothing to do with reaching a certain "strength". If you can produce a codex, or book written by GW or BL that has a chapter, or warband or chaos army that is not one of the know 1st founding legions, with the word "legion" in their name will gladly admit I am wrong (and be shocked). Sure any one can make a DIY army and CALL it a legion, nothing to stop you, but it doesnt make it one, and no one that knows anything about fluff and canon is going to believe you. You can call your VW an audi too, nothing to stop you, doesnt make it one, and no one that knows anything about cars is going to believe you.

But whatever

Have fun.

 

Off the top of my head? Loyalist Chapter, the Doom Legion. Colors are silver and green. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Doom_Legion

 

Ahhh, ninja'd!

[Lord Marshal Ragnrok]

Predator Legion, a chaos warband. Source:  Codex Chaos Space Marines 6th Ed

 

Doom Legion, former sm chapter who turned into the Vectors of Pox warband. Source:Codex Space Marines 5th Ed

 

There you go.

[Lord Marshal Ragnrok]

If your gonna critic the post, critic what is WRITTEN. no background info is written at this time. the only info to be analyzed at this time is the organization.  when i write the background info it show why they organized as such.  They are in here because they are technically chaos.   My future writing will reveal that they are nothing like the other chaos marines.  Also, there is evidence of non-first founding chaos space marine units that are above 10k strong.  Also, until the fate of Saul and Rylanor are officially stated by GW, one can write what they want about them.

 

However, thanks for helping prove that i was correct about the use of legion.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I *did* criticize what you wrote.  I can't criticize what you didn't write because, well, you didn't write it yet.  Again, I apologize if it feels like I'm stomping on your dream army, dude, but. . . it doesn't work.

 

Plus, under your comment about Tarvitz and Rylanor, that means that I can go build background for a warband that is led by Alpharius, with a company under the command of Little Horus Aximand, whose Chief Apothecary is Meros the Red Angel, and whose flagship is the Iron Hands battlebarge Fist of Iron.  Because, you know, none of their fates has been written about by GW or the BL yet.  Do you see how wildly out of control this can get?  And besides, if you do lay claim to those two characters, what happens when GW or FW or BL does later detail their fate?  If Rylanor escaped on a Stormbird and rejoins the war effort, or Tarvitz becomes one of Garro's Knights Errant?  What do you do then?  Completely rewrite your entire force's backstory?

 

 

...oh, and how exactly did those two Heresy-era personalities survive to the current age?  Do they keep 'em locked up in a stasis cage and only let 'em out once every thousand years to answer a question?

[Vesper]

Ahhh, ninja'd!

There will be other battles .

Legion Marines: about

12200

There. Overkill.

Abaddon is supposed to have roughly a ton of marines (ten times more than the WB, which makes the BL the big bad wolves in black (yay !)), but even Huron can't claim to have as many marines as your 'legion'. You should contemplate downgrading it to something more likely, like a chapter sized warband or something.

EDIT : and yeah, using named characters from the HH doesn't help making the whole thing believable. Not at all.

Stay humble, make everything by yourself. The same goes for Lorn V, a planet that came up during a DoW game... Really buddy, you should consider coming up with something fresh that cames from you instead of mixing already existing stuff in a weird way.

[Lord Marshal Ragnrok]

the 1st founding legions, well the largest of them, had around 100000 or more marines.  even with great loses, the Black Legion still has the Doomgivers beat numerically.  Huron definitely has something close to thousands of marines according to the math of several of the sources. although he seems to have acquired that extremely fast i must say.

[Lord Marshal Ragnrok]

I *did* criticize what you wrote.  I can't criticize what you didn't write because, well, you didn't write it yet.  Again, I apologize if it feels like I'm stomping on your dream army, dude, but. . . it doesn't work.

 

Plus, under your comment about Tarvitz and Rylanor, that means that I can go build background for a warband that is led by Alpharius, with a company under the command of Little Horus Aximand, whose Chief Apothecary is Meros the Red Angel, and whose flagship is the Iron Hands battlebarge Fist of Iron.  Because, you know, none of their fates has been written about by GW or the BL yet.  Do you see how wildly out of control this can get?  And besides, if you do lay claim to those two characters, what happens when GW or FW or BL does later detail their fate?  If Rylanor escaped on a Stormbird and rejoins the war effort, or Tarvitz becomes one of Garro's Knights Errant?  What do you do then?  Completely rewrite your entire force's backstory?

 

 

...oh, and how exactly did those two Heresy-era personalities survive to the current age?  Do they keep 'em locked up in a stasis cage and only let 'em out once every thousand years to answer a question?

Technically yes, you could write all of that. im not going that far, simply taking the survivors of the massacre. i do realize they are probs dead. and they are actually a minor part of my legion's story. it could be formed without them entirely. im not stupid enough to make them critical given the likelyhood of their deaths.  its called having some fun with the technicalities while i can.  also, technically technology in the 40k universe and sms biology can make them basically live forever. thats partially why they are so awesome and kick most aliens' asses.

[chillin]

If you can produce a codex, or book written by GW or BL that has a

chapter, or warband or chaos army that is not one of the know 1st

founding legions, with the word "legion" in their name will gladly admit

I am wrong (and be shocked).

Legion of the Damned ?

Doom Legion ?

Mentor Legion ?

Tempest Legion ?

Damn it, ! forgot about legion of the damned ! ( I actually like their fluff and paint scheme and have a few of the oooold skool LotD figs, and reciently got the BL book about them, so you would think they would not hav slipped my mind). I never heard of doom legion or tempest legion, are they actually in C sm or someone DIY that they had stuck on the net. Are you talking about the minators ? bc I've never heard them called a legion but a chapter, never heard/read of the mentor legion. But oh well, even the legion of the damned proves me wrong. I stand corrected marshal. Had to be wrong once in my life sooner or later

[Iron Father Ferrum]

....I'm done, dude.  You're not listening to reason, and your entire project is one big bag of fanboyism.  I've been trying to sue kid gloves, but we'll see how the sharks in the Liber forum treat you after the mods move the thread.

 

Have fun.

[Lord Marshal Ragnrok]

what you reported it? lol. im not a kid fyi, well past that in age and maturity.  if you dont like the reason, then just comment on something else. simple.

 

o and chillin - mentors legion is actually a very interesting concept for a chapter. you should look it up.

[the jeske]

but even Huron can't claim to have as many marines as your 'legion'

actualy doesnt the last new fluff put him at 200k man under him with a marine force only second in size to abadon and larger then any other legion , including the WB and IW which both are huge .

[Tenebris]

Well Huron had around 3k astartes at the time of the Badab war, he fled to the Maelstrom with around 1k, yet in the past few hundred years he gathered I believe around 8k-10k astartes, which are not chaos marines but mostly renegades. Its strength as I see it comes from thousands of guardsmen and pirates much like it did at Badab. 

 

Now I stand here with Ferrum and Vesper both. The whole force above is in the eyes of a lore nazi heresy of the worst kind. It is always nice to have bits of official lore in your warband background but it is always advisable to be humble. The name Legion can stand but it is by no means and indication of strength since the true legions are now disbanded and most of them fled to the Eye with something like 30k astartes each, of which ten millenia of warfare and warp diminished their number.

 

Your concept above looks like a potato mash of several original legion bodies with bits of fanboyism and a lack of knowledge of the 40k background. I am always for a fresh concept, a wise use of established lore and creativity with DIY forces but when one extends the whole idea of DIY too much than it becomes a laughable thing. 

 

A much more advisable route to take would be to start from the concept of a standard marine chapter (1k marines) than identify the command and organization bodies within its limits and only than move in to integrate concepts from chaos lore. At best such a chapter could have something like 2k-3k marines if it is diligent enough to harvest as much geneseed as possible but seen the deterioration of the genes when one is exposed to the warp such numbers are hard to come by. All this without counting the casualities and the difficulty to obtain vehicles, armor, spare parts and weapons once you are renegade and excluded of the Imperial supply lines. 

 

Now if you tone down your idea of warband, and rethink its bodies to make them something unique and not copy pasta from the various legions well than you might have a nice concept in your hands. Be also aware that no matter how disciplined and organized your force was before the fall, Chaos will spread its influence and many such structures within your force, titles and ranks will soon become void for the only thing that implies that you are in command of a chaos warband is the favor of the gods and nothing else bar torture and fear in some cases. 

 

There is also the innate animosity between chaos warbands and even among the members of a single squad that would do quick work of all your established rules, honors and ranks. On the note of the numbers, the only way to achieve the strength of a legion is not by making  astartes but by forcing hundreds of thousands of humans into your service. There is the strength of chaos nowdays, in its countless cults, fallen regiments, warbands of sycophants and degenerate humans which all do the bidding of their astartes lords. 

 

Even a single chaos ship can have 20k human soldiers aboard, a strength that the chaos astartes use while the loyalists are bound not to due to the dictates of the codex. Sure there is the Imperial Guard but it is a separate body with its separate ideas, goals and means while a chaos warband can have ranks upon ranks of vicious soldiers that are very dangerous due to their chaos corruption. Thus here and here alone lies the strength of chaos, not in the power of the chaos marines who are champions but in the combination of warp sorcery, massive armies of humans and the cruel command of the fallen astartes. We did not get the Chaos Culstist for nothing in this edition. 

 

So my advice is to heed the council of your fellow traitors on this forum and create a really nice warband. We are here to help and feel free to ask us if you need ideas, inspiration or council for you seem to invest quite some time in your warband lore and with some points settled it can become an interesting DIY project. 

[Antarius]

Sorry dude. I have to add my voice to the general chorus of "yeah, no."

 

I like homebrews, I like references to other fluff sources/BL and I have no issue with marines dating back to the heresy. I even think it's fine to have your guys be "big fish" (or at least think they are). But this just... I dunno, it just really, really doesn't work. Sorry.

[Vesper]

but even Huron can't claim to have as many marines as your 'legion'

actualy doesnt the last new fluff put him at 200k man under him with a marine force only second in size to abadon and larger then any other legion , including the WB and IW which both are huge .

As far as I remember, he's at the head of an army that is 'more or less as big as a legion'. Second in size to Abaddon, indeed, but never heard of 200k or any number.

You know, when I wrote that bit on Huron, I KNEW you'd come here to talk precisely about it .

[Brother Ambroz]

Yeah man this is really over the top.....

[Vesper]

http://bobsbadmovieblog.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/over-the-top.jpg

[Lord Marshal Ragnrok]

alright, all of you people who cannot think outside of the bloody lore. UNTIL I WRITE ANY BACKGROUND INFO NO MORE COMMENTS.  this has not brought anything useful or new to the table. i know the lore, do not repeat the lore.

[Cmdr Shepard]

It seems things get very "unfriendly" when it comes to DYI fluff and stuff in general.
I'm not taking any side ;) just making a comment on how I perceived this entire situation. 

[Lord Marshal Ragnrok]

thats a fair perception