Solodins

[skarn]

Has anyone tried using these? If so how did they go?

 

This blog (http://www.fritz40k.com/2013/03/6th-edition-40k-grey-knight-build.html) has an article about a 1750pt list using 6 solodins with 30 interceptors that looks really interesting. 

 

 

 

 

[the jeske]

am not getting the build . he freely gives up first blood as soon as paldins hit the table [am assuming he is not walkin any turn 1 and keeps interceptors hidden to use their shunt to outflank or change flanks] , he doesnt have the fire power or the melee power to deal with horde armies either and he has to ignore flyer builds [but then he doesnt have the bodies to do that] . not enough data to judge the build further , specialy as he doesnt give any explanation on how he plans to play them . Specialy on tables without LoS terrain[which happen a lot on tournaments] or when stuff like myst terrain etc is just ignored and not rolled[more or less every tournament I know does that].

[Gentlemanloser]

With potentially only 1 scoring unit of any durability (I'm assuming TGS is used for this), I'm assuming this is designed to go second, and use PC to keep the Solo's in reserves for as long as possible.

 

But there's no where for Draigo/Libby to go (you wouldn't attach them to the interceptors) and Draigo needs to be on board for PC.

 

Dropping solo's last turn by DS to score/contest being your winning strategy seems, iffy, at best.  Especially as the Skulls aren't going to be there at the end of the game.

 

I also don't get the wasted MC points.

 

I don't think many 2k tournament lists would have trouble killing 30 Marines.  Especially if you faced Heldrakes...

 

 

has an article about a 1750pt list

 

The posted list is for 2K, it's mentioned to drop the Libby to get to 1750.

 

That being said, the posted list is only 1,940.

 

I don't get it.  Drop the 60 points wasted on MC and you've still got 120 left.  Drop the 'for fun' Libby at a whopping 255, and do something else with the 375 points...

[Lysere]

Using a solodin in the low point Draigo blob just to get two troops works out fairly well. Using 6 though seems like a good way to lose in any and every possible game mode except maybe scouring.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Wow...I make Solodin armies in my 'worst 40k list ever' joke thread. 30 Interceptors....he had to be drunk. Has he heard of battle cannons or Heldrakes? 

[Gentlemanloser]

To be fair, I'm starting to warm to Interceptors with Incinerators. ;)

 

Shunt bypasses all anti infiltrate/outflank/DS defenses, like Interceptor or Warp Quake.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

To be fair, I'm starting to warm to Interceptors with Incinerators.

Shunt bypasses all anti infiltrate/outflank/DS defenses, like Interceptor or Warp Quake.

Yeah, but they're still *just* Marines. At least with Purifiers, you can keep some stuff at arms length with psycannons and storm bolters. Shunting is pretty much suicide. DK's get away with it because of their statline. Interceptors...eh.

[Gentlemanloser]

Yeah, they're still marines.

 

With T4 and a 3+ Save.  Much more durable than those IG/Xenos equivalents. ;)

[thade]

Shunting is pretty much suicide. DK's get away with it because of their statline. Interceptors...eh.

This is, more or less, the core argument against Jump Marines in general...and it comes from an assumption that everybody uses them (and now Interceptors) in the same goofy way: charging them out in front of everybody and presenting an obvious target.

 

You can use them that way, or you can use them like cavalry. Hold them behind your gunline then use their superior mobility to position them to counter-charge when your gunline gets into a fight. Shunt means a single Interceptor squad can cover a lot of ground quickly for the same purpose, or even leap backfield to support home objectives at need. Don't use jump/teleport infantry just to skirmish blindly. Use them to offer quick support to your rank'n'file.

[Voodoo_Prince]

In my last 3 games my Interceptors have shunted behind my opponent's aegis defence line, it has paid off in 2 of my games as what was behind the aegis was either dead or in combat therefore not allowing my opponent to destroy my stormraven. I rate them!

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Yeah, they're still marines.

With T4 and a 3+ Save. Much more durable than those IG/Xenos equivalents.

Since 3rd edition at least (taking 3rd as being the first stable edition of the game), everyone, their dog, their mother and their retarded cousin have been writing army lists to kill Tactical Marines and Terminators. Our Marines and Terminators are shinier, cooler and pack more of a punch, but they're still expensive and they still die just as easily as the cheaper pleb Marines. Yeah, we're tough, but people make allowances for that by spamming lots of shots or using low AP on us.

This is, more or less, the core argument against Jump Marines in general...and it comes from an assumption that everybody uses them (and now Interceptors) in the same goofy way: charging them out in front of everybody and presenting an obvious target.

Nice strawman. No, that's not the argument I'm presenting at all.

40k is a game dominated by shooting. Briefly, melee has been powerful (3rd edition, maybe some of 4th), but shooting almost always trumps melee in matchups. Shooting happens every turn, and cannot be shut down except if you are dead or in melee. Melee only happens rarely, if at all, but when it does it can be quite decisive.

True LOS makes it very hard to completely shield a unit from being shot up. Even a small Interceptor unit might not be able to hide itself fully. This becomes doubly difficult when your opponent has shooty units that can reposition (vehicles, walkers, Assault/Rapid Fire weapons). So, even flanking hard and screening them as much as possible, your Interceptors can still be shot to pieces if someone gets a bead on them.

Worse than this is the fact that Shunting prevents charges. So, you signal to your opponent your intentions, then give him an entire turn to move+shoot/counter-assault. Poor regular Jump Infantry don't even get a shunt move, so they're stuck trying to Run up a flank and hide for several turns before they get into charge range.

Combined with the loss of charge from Reserve, and Random Charge distance....it takes a lot of planning and very good execution on your part to get units into melee Turn 2 now. Obviously, if you're fighting a melee list this isn't true, but they're much rarer now. IG, Tau, Knights, Necrons and even regular Marines all bring a strong ranged game and Allies means no one except Tyranids is entirely without fire support options.

You can use them that way, or you can use them like cavalry. Hold them behind your gunline then use their superior mobility to position them to counter-charge when your gunline gets into a fight. Shunt means a single Interceptor squad can cover a lot of ground quickly for the same purpose, or even leap backfield to support home objectives at need. Don't use jump/teleport infantry just to skirmish blindly. Use them to offer quick support to your rank'n'file.

The problem with that strategy is you are assuming your opponent will move up. You cannot assume that, especially against shooty lists who like to camp for as long as possible. Tau in particular are quite happy to hang back and nuke all your threats, then clean up objectives late-game. Knights generally must move up and take the mid-field, our 24" guns force us too. Also, hanging back with the Interceptors lets your opponent simply focus them down before they do anything.

In my last 3 games my Interceptors have shunted behind my opponent's aegis defence line, it has paid off in 2 of my games as what was behind the aegis was either dead or in combat therefore not allowing my opponent to destroy my stormraven. I rate them!

How did you manage that? You can't charge after Shunting

[Gentlemanloser]

Shunting is basically deep striking without *all* the drawbacks.

 

If you'd ever consider deep striking a unit of Marines, then shunting is by far a better option.

 

There's no 'shunt' defense, like there is DS (Warp Quake)

No dangerous terrain tests

No scatter

No reserve rolls, you shunt exactly when you want to

You get to place your unit however you want, and not clumped up in a nice little circle

 

You get to shoot, exactly like a unit that has arrived by DS, and can't assault that turn, again, exactly like DS.

 

Shunting is Deep Strike on steriods!

 

 

Briefly, melee has been powerful (3rd edition, maybe some of 4th)

 

All of 4th. :(

 

Harliquis you couldn't shoot at distance, nor slow down.  Who cared little for thier low S, as they rended on the to-hit roll.  Can consolidated from one CC to another, so you couldn't shoot them if close anyway.  And had kill zones.

 

Uhg.

 

Melee was too powerful.  Especially as you normall had more CC attacks than shooting shots, and had twice the number of Assault phases compared to shooting.  We still have the minuses to Leadership rolls from CC, but there was also Fearless/No Retreat! wounds.

[thade]

Interceptors are also rather good at shooting. Koremu often made the (rather mathhammer heavy) point that Assault Marines are better at shooting then at assaulting; that seems especially the case for a unit with storm bolters, potentially psycannons, and mobility that is - strictly speaking - more durable than a Rhino.

 

Your cavalry need not seek out melee: their effective engagement range is 24", and their extreme mobility can help get flank shots, negate cover, and offer emergency support almost anywhere on the table.

[Voodoo_Prince]

Yeah, they're still marines.

With T4 and a 3+ Save. Much more durable than those IG/Xenos equivalents.

Since 3rd edition at least (taking 3rd as being the first stable edition of the game), everyone, their dog, their mother and their retarded cousin have been writing army lists to kill Tactical Marines and Terminators. Our Marines and Terminators are shinier, cooler and pack more of a punch, but they're still expensive and they still die just as easily as the cheaper pleb Marines. Yeah, we're tough, but people make allowances for that by spamming lots of shots or using low AP on us.

>

This is, more or less, the core argument against Jump Marines in general...and it comes from an assumption that everybody uses them (and now Interceptors) in the same goofy way: charging them out in front of everybody and presenting an obvious target.

Nice strawman. No, that's not the argument I'm presenting at all.

40k is a game dominated by shooting. Briefly, melee has been powerful (3rd edition, maybe some of 4th), but shooting almost always trumps melee in matchups. Shooting happens every turn, and cannot be shut down except if you are dead or in melee. Melee only happens rarely, if at all, but when it does it can be quite decisive.

True LOS makes it very hard to completely shield a unit from being shot up. Even a small Interceptor unit might not be able to hide itself fully. This becomes doubly difficult when your opponent has shooty units that can reposition (vehicles, walkers, Assault/Rapid Fire weapons). So, even flanking hard and screening them as much as possible, your Interceptors can still be shot to pieces if someone gets a bead on them.

Worse than this is the fact that Shunting prevents charges. So, you signal to your opponent your intentions, then give him an entire turn to move+shoot/counter-assault. Poor regular Jump Infantry don't even get a shunt move, so they're stuck trying to Run up a flank and hide for several turns before they get into charge range.

Combined with the loss of charge from Reserve, and Random Charge distance....it takes a lot of planning and very good execution on your part to get units into melee Turn 2 now. Obviously, if you're fighting a melee list this isn't true, but they're much rarer now. IG, Tau, Knights, Necrons and even regular Marines all bring a strong ranged game and Allies means no one except Tyranids is entirely without fire support options.

You can use them that way, or you can use them like cavalry. Hold them behind your gunline then use their superior mobility to position them to counter-charge when your gunline gets into a fight. Shunt means a single Interceptor squad can cover a lot of ground quickly for the same purpose, or even leap backfield to support home objectives at need. Don't use jump/teleport infantry just to skirmish blindly. Use them to offer quick support to your rank'n'file.

The problem with that strategy is you are assuming your opponent will move up. You cannot assume that, especially against shooty lists who like to camp for as long as possible. Tau in particular are quite happy to hang back and nuke all your threats, then clean up objectives late-game. Knights generally must move up and take the mid-field, our 24" guns force us too. Also, hanging back with the Interceptors lets your opponent simply focus them down before they do anything.

In my last 3 games my Interceptors have shunted behind my opponent's aegis defence line, it has paid off in 2 of my games as what was behind the aegis was either dead or in combat therefore not allowing my opponent to destroy my stormraven. I rate them!

How did you manage that? You can't charge after Shunting

Shooting with 1 Incinerator, 4 Stormbolthers with psybolt ammo.. If my target survived they ended up charging me (in sheer panic). I feel it was best described as "throwing a spanner in the works!"

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Shunting is basically deep striking without *all* the drawbacks.

If you'd ever consider deep striking a unit of Marines, then shunting is by far a better option.

There's no 'shunt' defense, like there is DS (Warp Quake)

No dangerous terrain tests

No scatter

No reserve rolls, you shunt exactly when you want to

You get to place your unit however you want, and not clumped up in a nice little circle

You get to shoot, exactly like a unit that has arrived by DS, and can't assault that turn, again, exactly like DS.

Shunting is Deep Strike on steriods!

Oh Shunting is better than Derpstrike, no question. That's why I take the teleporter pack on my DK. They still share the same core issue though, which is the restriction on charging. With the removal of Sweeping Advance constant combat in prior editions, I really don't see why charge from Derpstrike/Shunt/Outflank is so OP. Idiots will get caught out, people who deploy properly and screen won't have as huge an advantage.

All of 4th.

Harliquis you couldn't shoot at distance, nor slow down. Who cared little for thier low S, as they rended on the to-hit roll. Can consolidated from one CC to another, so you couldn't shoot them if close anyway. And had kill zones.

Uhg.

Melee was too powerful. Especially as you normall had more CC attacks than shooting shots, and had twice the number of Assault phases compared to shooting. We still have the minuses to Leadership rolls from CC, but there was also Fearless/No Retreat! wounds.

Flying Circus was amusing. However, I recall both then and now that Harlies hate short-range firepower and flamer weaponry. They've nerfed into oblivion all the tricks that made that strategy work though, so its irrelevant now.

Interceptors are also rather good at shooting. Koremu often made the (rather mathhammer heavy) point that Assault Marines are better at shooting then at assaulting; that seems especially the case for a unit with storm bolters, potentially psycannons, and mobility that is - strictly speaking - more durable than a Rhino.

Wut? At bare minimum you are paying 130pts for a squad of Interceptors. Rhinos are 35...

Interceptors are nowhere near as efficient as Henchmen, or Strikes, if you're talking about shooting. They're not intended as a ranged unit, they're meant to get into melee with backfield targets that hate melee (Devs, Havoks, Lootaz, Long Fangs etc). That's why you take incinerators, not psycannon, as incinerators are close-range and help them soften up whatever they're charging.

Your cavalry need not seek out melee: their effective engagement range is 24", and their extreme mobility can help get flank shots, negate cover, and offer emergency support almost anywhere on the table.

Assuming they aren't dead. You've also sunk points into what could've been another Strike or Henchmen squad, but is instead worse than either. Plus non-scoring, unless its 'Scouring' or you have a Grandmaster.

My point is, you might have that threat range, but it means nothing if your opponent just blows you up with guns. Interceptors are too expensive to be left fidgeting around in your DZ, waiting for your opponent to walk into an obvious trap. They're far better employed harassing his advance or threatening his backline support.

Shooting with 1 Incinerator, 4 Stormbolthers with psybolt ammo.. If my target survived they ended up charging me (in sheer panic). I feel it was best described as "throwing a spanner in the works!"

That's pretty much what Interceptors excel at, screwing up enemy plans.

[jeffersonian000]

I've always used my Interceptors as highly mobile fire bases, scooting and shooting as needed with a shunt to get them where they need to be "right now!"  I've even used them to pop right behind an enemy unit that's in CC with my GKT, just to catch them when they break (auto-death to the broke unit).

 

For me, Interceptors offer a very flexible tool kit that adds to my options during any give game, which is worth the premium I play for them.

 

SJ

[thade]

Their mobility is - strictly speaking - more durable than a Rhino. A single shot can ground a unit of GK embarked in a Rhino, putting them in footslogging land; really, so many armies are often kitted out specifically to tackle vehicles, and Rhinos are among the most fragile.

 

Anti-vehicle fire tends to put out less shots-per-volley than anti-infantry fire; that combi-melta/meltagun squad will pop my Rhino and reduce my Strikes to 6"-12" a turn...or it will kill one to two Interceptors and that squad can still move 12"-18" as well as shunt. Transports are so fragile that they're really only effective to "redeploy" your force during Turn 1 in order to account for whatever your opponent set up...as a Rhino's (or even a LR's) survival beyond turn 2 isn't great.

 

Being blown up is really the point of a Rhino; they utterly negate small arms fire and when they're popped, your 3+, 8/9 Ld troops just shrug the wreckage off and carry on...wherever they're standing. Rhinos are less about mobility than they are survivability; jump infantry are the reverse.

[Castellan Alaric]

strikes are better than interceptors?? only thing that strikes have is being troops and cheaper. with interceptors you have a strike squad that behaves like jump infantry. unit of 10 with 2 psycannons and psybolts hit just as hard as a strike squad, and they are MUCH more mobile and able to react to more threats with their teleporter packs.

[Gentlemanloser]

And also cost 30% more to hit just as hard ;)

[thade]

And also cost 30% more to hit just as hard

You're paying for the mobility. And the classiness of it all.

[Brother Maikel]

And also cost 30% more to hit just as hard

Arguably they can hit even harder, since their added mobility means you can get better flanking shots, are better at getting off the charge, can hop up into elevated positions to deny cover saves from intervening models/terrain and in cases where the enemy starts 28-36" away from your closest model you can get more stormbolters and psycannons within effective firing range of the enemy. And that's without shunting.

They might put out the same number of bullets, but if those bullets are hitting vital squishy organs instead of armour plating, they become a lot more effective.

[Gentlemanloser]

Or the Strike gets 30% more Bodies, with more shots to go with it.

 

Swings and roundabouts.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

It's all meaningless anyway. Terminators are our best scoring unit, Purifiers being second. Strikes you bring along for dedicated anti-DS defence, or because you hate Henchmen (you can field two fire support Henchmen squads for the same price as a single Strike squad with dual psycannon).