Damon Prytanis from Betrayer

[Raviusz]

Having finally gotten hold of paperback Betrayer. Which I have just finished reading, one of the most interesting parts for me was the appearance of the Cabal & Damon Prytanis.
 
Is it who i think it is?

 

 

John Grammaticus, Oll Persson or just another Cabal agent?

 
Does anyone have any theories on why the cabal are there and who they sent to infiltrate the word bearers ship?

 

Cracking book by Aaron, Fantastic stuff

[Apothecary Vaddon]

fairly certain it was just another Perpetual ... welcoming Cyrene into the ranks of the Cabal.

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

You might want to edit the last bit as a spoiler Vaddon ;)

[Marshall Bretton]

 

the impression i got is that jon grammaticus is the only perpetual who is actually a cabal agent, all the others like oll and damon are just immortals (thats what the perpetuals seem to be anyway)

that is what i got from reading the alpha legion book (i honestly can't remember th name of it atm) it seemed that jon was the only human the cabal ever deemed to be worthy of joining them, and he was only a low level agent. it seems that him being a perpetual was part of the reason they recruited him, not something he became from joining them

 

[Daemon2027]

John Grammaticus seems to have recruited Oli although Oli may not know who John works for.

[randian]

Why does the Cabal, a supposedly anti-Chaos organization, want to recruit someone as corrupt as Cyrene? She may not be doing the murdering, but she's an apostle of Chaos to the Word Bearers.

[godking]

Having finally gotten hold of paperback Betrayer. Which I have just finished reading, one of the most interesting parts for me was the appearance of the Cabal & Damon Prytanis.

 

Is it who i think it is?

 

 

John Grammaticus, Oll Persson or just another Cabal agent?

 

 

Does anyone have any theories on why the cabal are there and who they sent to infiltrate the word bearers ship?

 

Cracking book by Aaron, Fantastic stuff

Its not J or O Damon specifically mentions  J as his friend.

[Daemon2027]

Why does the Cabal, a supposedly anti-Chaos organization, want to recruit someone as corrupt as Cyrene? She may not be doing the murdering, but she's an apostle of Chaos to the Word Bearers.

But the cable wants a victory for those empowered by chaos to ensure its self destruction, and if they willing to use a weapon of human of humanity (Alpha Legion), why not use an icon of choas. Also, did Cyrene approve of chaos, I thought she did not approve of what had happened to Argel Tal (been a long time since I read the corresponding books so can't remember that to well).

[Wade Garrett]

The Cabal bit came out of nowhere and really didn't seem to have much to do with the rest of the story. (Harpoons. Harpoons on EVERYTHING)

 

I also felt like it cheapened Cyrene and Argel Tal's story in the First Heretic, not to mention that between Betrayer and Angel Exterminatus the Heresy is starting to look like DC comics in terms of returning dead people.

[Daemon2027]

I feel cabals inclusion was due to the need of the greater narrative, but yeah it's not great to keep bringing characters back from the dead.

[Wade Garrett]

For the record, I liked everything else in Betrayer..Heck, I was sure Erebus was going to drag back some horrible daemon spirit and clothe it in Cyrene's flesh, or she'd be irredeemably mad, or something, but she just comes back and everything's cool?

 

Made me want to climb atop a mountain of corpses, lift a chainaxe towards the sky, and scream "AAAAAAAARRRRROOOOON!"

 

A desire which was foiled by a lack of corpse mountains and chainaxe, but still!

[A D-B]

For the record, I liked everything else in Betrayer..Heck, I was sure Erebus was going to drag back some horrible daemon spirit and clothe it in Cyrene's flesh, or she'd be irredeemably mad, or something, but she just comes back and everything's cool?

 

Made me want to climb atop a mountain of corpses, lift a chainaxe towards the sky, and scream "AAAAAAAARRRRROOOOON!"

 

A desire which was foiled by a lack of corpse mountains and chainaxe, but still!

 

Everything sure looked cool.

 

Like at the end of The Monkey's Paw. That knocking was just their dead son coming home. Surely everything would be fine.

[Wade Garrett]

 

Everything sure looked cool.

 

Like at the end of The Monkey's Paw. That knocking was just their dead son coming home. Surely everything would be fine

.

But...but...that would require me to have faith that one of my favorite authors actually knows what he's doing and that there is some sort of grand design that will be implemented that will blow my socks off.

 

I'm not sure I have that capacity anymore, George Lucas poisoned it and George R. R. Martin is doing his best to deliver a coupe de grace on what little remains. Easier to just wail, gnash my teeth, and proclaim the Horus Heresy is RUINED FOREVER.

 

By the way, now that I have no doubt earned your eternal ire with insults thinly veiled as criticism, can I say that I love the way you write the Warriors of the Eye with a...I can't seem to come up with a better phrase than twisted nobility, where the reader can still see, like a fading mist or glimmering mirage, the heroes and champions they could have been, SHOULD have been, were the galaxy a kinder place.

 

In my opinion it makes them both more sympathetic and scarier, to quote C.S. Lewis "All the qualities that make a good man great make a bad man a scourge."

[Captain Idaho]

I'm pretty sure it's a mistake to assume the reference to the Cabal was explanation towards the Perpetuals' allegiance.

 

 

Damon references the Cabal's interest being bad for "people like us", indicating the difference between Cabal and Perpetual as "factions". He wasn't saving Cyrene from the war, but from the Cabal.

 

[A D-B]

 

 

Everything sure looked cool.

 

Like at the end of The Monkey's Paw. That knocking was just their dead son coming home. Surely everything would be fine

.

But...but...that would require me to have faith that one of my favorite authors actually knows what he's doing and that there is some sort of grand design that will be implemented that will blow my socks off.

 

I'm not sure I have that capacity anymore, George Lucas poisoned it and George R. R. Martin is doing his best to deliver a coupe de grace on what little remains. Easier to just wail, gnash my teeth, and proclaim the Horus Heresy is RUINED FOREVER.

 

By the way, now that I have no doubt earned your eternal ire with insults thinly veiled as criticism, can I say that I love the way you write the Warriors of the Eye with a...I can't seem to come up with a better phrase than twisted nobility, where the reader can still see, like a fading mist or glimmering mirage, the heroes and champions they could have been, SHOULD have been, were the galaxy a kinder place.

 

In my opinion it makes them both more sympathetic and scarier, to quote C.S. Lewis "All the qualities that make a good man great make a bad man a scourge."

 

Eternal ire, my balls. I completely agree with your Cyrene criticism in terms of Betrayer. But, like, I'm learning to sacrifice immediate release for the sake of the series, and not tie things up too cleanly in a single book. One of the major notes in the last few HH meetings has been to work more threads together through the series, and there're big plans beyond a (hopefully very emotional and interesting) resurrection of a certain character.

 

Mind you, I'm not asking you to trust me. We've both been burned by the same guys, it seems. I still do these lame, melancholy sighs at sunset when I re-read A Dance with Dragons, and Dany's neverending backslide into irrelevant tedium.

[Trel]

See, I liked the tiny little tie-in to the Cabal, Oll Person, Grammaticus, etc because it does exactly what it's supposed to do: make each volume feel like a piece of a greater whole.  Too many of the HH books feel like standalone novels that do nothing to push or even enrich the storyline.  This one did.

 

My wish is that the author had figured out a different way to do that than bring back Cyrene.  Cyrene, dead, was a complete character and a nice parallel to the Legion's nature.  When the Legion became too corrupt for her character, she could not continue to exist.   It worked.  They no longer had their lifeline to salvation, they were irrevocably damned.

 

Would the story have been as good without Cyrene?  Of course, since Argel Tal had his relationship with Khârn to focus on.  Argel Tal was at a different place and thus had different needs.  To wit, he doesn't have to worry about his spiritual salvation anymore, so he doesn't actually need Cyrene; all he had left was his warrior-brotherhood and that was Khârn's.

 

...and now she's back.  ...and if she comes back, that means Argel Tal will probably have to come back too so they can have a nice, weepy conversation about being dead and damned. 

[Daemon2027]

The story has to come together at some point so I understand the inclusion on some plot points outside the rest of the story. Tbh it didn't ruin Betrayer for me, in fact I like the change in direction for a while. But then I also have enjoyed all the SOIAF books even the ones I'm told are dull (although I'm not sure about all the resurrections despite the author stating he disliked that sort of things in storyline a).

[Wade Garrett]

Now I'm wondering just how the Perpetual work..at first I thought it was something like Highlander Immortals, with old age and disease holding no terrors but death by violence still a possibility. But seeing as Damon got himself immolated in what I assume was warp fire (since, you know, green) and walked it off it seems they may be truly eternal, which I find a bit jarring in the grim darkness of the slightly less far future where even gods may die.

 

And my problem with Dance of Dragons was the ex nihilio appearance of another Targaryen in a manner that seems to fit an authority need to keep the war in Westeros raging while Danny remains on the other side of the ocean doing something or other just a bit too ham handedly for suspension of disbelief.

[Daemon2027]

I think each perpetual is different. John is only alive at the grace of the cable I think., although his power is psychic ability. At least that's the impression I got from Legion.

 

I agree with your other comment but i still like the series, but its probably not the best place to discuss that so I will leave it at that.

[yhta]

well the perpetual are pretty much a remake of the sensei the sons of the emperor, who was pretty much highlander with a bit of jedi, so that is what it gives you that feeling garrett, its posible that BL would put some things new for the serires, lets see what

 

and about dead returning to life, well is quite jarring because the setting really dosent let this happen that much, aside for eliphas the inheretor in DoW series and i actually don like to much the fact that the imperium can only trap of banish deamons, i feels like "the evil will win" with move from grimdark to just depresing, so the whole bring back the dead can be jarring but the series are still on so let see

 

also, i`m really the only one who not hate the star wars prequel?

[lokkorex]

just who is this Cyrene woman anyways?

 

i haven't read neither TFH nor Betrayer and won't be able to read either of them in the near future(still got the siege of castellax and treacheries of the space marines to plow through(loved the Throne of Lies A-DB! )

 

40kwiki and lexicanum both came up with nada on her.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

just who is this Cyrene woman anyways?

 

i haven't read neither TFH nor Betrayer and won't be able to read either of them in the near future(still got the siege of castellax and treacheries of the space marines to plow through(loved the Throne of Lies A-DB! )

 

40kwiki and lexicanum both came up with nada on her.

 

She first appeared in the First Heretic, she is a survivor of Monchoria (or however thats spelt) and became a sort of Confessor to the Word Bearers during their transition to heretics.

She becomes particulary attached to Argen Tal.

 

WLK

[Apothecary Vaddon]

 

just who is this Cyrene woman anyways?

 

i haven't read neither TFH nor Betrayer and won't be able to read either of them in the near future(still got the siege of castellax and treacheries of the space marines to plow through(loved the Throne of Lies A-DB! )

 

40kwiki and lexicanum both came up with nada on her.

 

She first appeared in the First Heretic, she is a survivor of Monarchia (or however that's spelled) and became a sort of Confessor to the Word Bearers during their transition to heretics.

She becomes particularly attached to Argel Tal.

 

WLK

welcome

[Marshal Rohr]

 

 

 

 

Everything sure looked cool.

 

Like at the end of The Monkey's Paw. That knocking was just their dead son coming home. Surely everything would be fine

.

But...but...that would require me to have faith that one of my favorite authors actually knows what he's doing and that there is some sort of grand design that will be implemented that will blow my socks off.

 

I'm not sure I have that capacity anymore, George Lucas poisoned it and George R. R. Martin is doing his best to deliver a coupe de grace on what little remains. Easier to just wail, gnash my teeth, and proclaim the Horus Heresy is RUINED FOREVER.

 

By the way, now that I have no doubt earned your eternal ire with insults thinly veiled as criticism, can I say that I love the way you write the Warriors of the Eye with a...I can't seem to come up with a better phrase than twisted nobility, where the reader can still see, like a fading mist or glimmering mirage, the heroes and champions they could have been, SHOULD have been, were the galaxy a kinder place.

 

In my opinion it makes them both more sympathetic and scarier, to quote C.S. Lewis "All the qualities that make a good man great make a bad man a scourge."

Eternal ire, my balls. I completely agree with your Cyrene criticism in terms of Betrayer. But, like, I'm learning to sacrifice immediate release for the sake of the series, and not tie things up too cleanly in a single book. One of the major notes in the last few HH meetings has been to work more threads together through the series, and there're big plans beyond a (hopefully very emotional and interesting) resurrection of a certain character.

 

Mind you, I'm not asking you to trust me. We've both been burned by the same guys, it seems. I still do these lame, melancholy sighs at sunset when I re-read A Dance with Dragons, and Dany's neverending backslide into irrelevant tedium.

 

You guys aren't going to bring back the Emperor, right?

 

 

Right?

[A D-B]

 

 

 

 

 

Everything sure looked cool.

 

Like at the end of The Monkey's Paw. That knocking was just their dead son coming home. Surely everything would be fine

.

But...but...that would require me to have faith that one of my favorite authors actually knows what he's doing and that there is some sort of grand design that will be implemented that will blow my socks off.

 

I'm not sure I have that capacity anymore, George Lucas poisoned it and George R. R. Martin is doing his best to deliver a coupe de grace on what little remains. Easier to just wail, gnash my teeth, and proclaim the Horus Heresy is RUINED FOREVER.

 

By the way, now that I have no doubt earned your eternal ire with insults thinly veiled as criticism, can I say that I love the way you write the Warriors of the Eye with a...I can't seem to come up with a better phrase than twisted nobility, where the reader can still see, like a fading mist or glimmering mirage, the heroes and champions they could have been, SHOULD have been, were the galaxy a kinder place.

 

In my opinion it makes them both more sympathetic and scarier, to quote C.S. Lewis "All the qualities that make a good man great make a bad man a scourge."

Eternal ire, my balls. I completely agree with your Cyrene criticism in terms of Betrayer. But, like, I'm learning to sacrifice immediate release for the sake of the series, and not tie things up too cleanly in a single book. One of the major notes in the last few HH meetings has been to work more threads together through the series, and there're big plans beyond a (hopefully very emotional and interesting) resurrection of a certain character.

 

Mind you, I'm not asking you to trust me. We've both been burned by the same guys, it seems. I still do these lame, melancholy sighs at sunset when I re-read A Dance with Dragons, and Dany's neverending backslide into irrelevant tedium.

 

You guys aren't going to bring back the Emperor, right?

 

 

Right?

 

In a wheelchair made of psyker bones.