2+/2++ saves

[Goatimus]

Idea:

 

Mutilators
with the mark of Tzeetch for a 2+/4++ save.

 

Allied
Herald (Probably Nurgle for shroud) with the Grimoire of Names targeting them
since they have Daemon USR.

 

That would
give the Mutilators a 2+/2++ save correct?

 

Alternatively
you could take the Mark of Nurgle for a +1T. Making you a 2+/3++ T5.

 

Slow and purposeful would be a problem if you’re going to
march them, but you could fit them in a land raider to get them across the
board faster.

 

Was wondering what else to put in 1500pt list that would
help support this.

 

[Dam13n]

This has already been discussed - you can't get past the 3++ limit imposed by the mark of Tzeentch.

 

The brb is quite clear that set limits are applied last, after all other modifiers.

 

The Nurgle one will work, so long as your opponent ignores the Herald, and any competent player will focus on eliminating him to stop this tactic.

[Goatimus]

Trying to dig around for the post you mentioned and the only one I found ended with it saying to would work.

 

 

Blæh!

 

Never noticed, but according to the codex, MoT and Invul seemingly cannot go below....+3

 

This Phil Kelly fan (what happened to the guy who wrote Dark Eldar :/ ) is almost tempted to believe in some kind of "Lulz" conspiracy between the Game Devs. How can we increase effectiveness of other deities forces while at the same time keep the Lord Mutandis firmly in his shackles. The Trickster God actually.....works best "tears some of his hair off" when coupled with NURGLE or Slaneesh, which is more than a bit....irritating. "Yeah, let them use awesome tzeentchain characters guys, but lets make sure that those awesome Tzeentch characters only have synergy or at least works best with Slaneesh and Nurgle"....

 

Meh...

 

Obviously, this means that the combo I mentioned above would work better on possessed with MoS, FNP banner. Or MoN, since MoN is the rage these days---

 

 

*Grumbles, then leaves for work, having finished his monthly being negative day*

 

No need for concern. It is the MoT that cannot exceed 3++. The Grimoire would be a multiplier extending its power after Mark application. this would allow for a 2++. Almost certainly, although Tzeentch is fickle..

 

 

I was planning on putting the herald with a squad of plague bearers near the back of the army in cover. Need to fill that troop spot for allies and I figure a shrouded, FNP unit in cover might be hard to remove from the board with just shooting. But I'm open to other options, just the first one that came to mind.

[Cmdr Shepard]

Even if it works you have 1 out of 3 chances to downgrade your invul save instead of upgrading it... just keep it in mind ;)

[Sception]

No.  Limits are applied last.  MoT doesn't add to inv. save if the total invulnerable save, including all other modifiers, would be better than 3++.  Make the herald a tzeentch herald and you can pick up the divination power that grants a 4++, then you could bump it to 2++, regardless of mark.  Put them on a skyshield that grants a 4++ on its own, then you could bump them to 2++, again regardless of mark.

 

But daemon + MoT + book doesn't get you to 2++.

[Nehekhare]

the grimoire is such a gimmick...3+ to shoot another squad instead basically.

[zyl-]

I hate to have to point out that this is sort of useless, but it is.

 

Making terminators more or less immune to plasma is half the battle, yes. The other problem is that the other half of the current meta is blobs, which this 2++ does nothing for at all. In the end, I feel like this is going to be a huge waste of your points and effort, because the intelligent enemy will be thinking "hmm.. plasma won't work on them, but I can make him take 40 armor saves a round ^.^" It's been mentioned before that CSM doesn't do as well with deathstar units as it does handfulls of decent units. We should probably stick to strengths on this one.

[Defiant]

A good player will def pick up on the 'plasma-proof' terminators with units that force lots of regular armour saves.

I use cultists for this in my army.

[Hellios]

A good player will def pick up on the 'plasma-proof' terminators with units that force lots of regular armour saves.

I use cultists for this in my army.

 

While true... If we assume both players are equally skilled, why would I allow you to swarm my uber-unit. Now you most likely have the advantage... For a number of reasons... Although this will vary from army to army. That being said a GEQ units should be hard to kill or pin down with something else. If you have a lot of smaller units (say Tactical Squads) then I am very likely wasting your special/heavy weapon shots from a number of squads. That helps other stuff I have survive for a couple of turns.

 

II'm not saying this is a good idea... Just that units that can put out a lot of shots are often fairly soft themselves. Although guard blobs with stealth are fun to flush out of cover.

[totgeboren]

Remember that you can only target daemons, so Termies can't be the target of Grimore. And yeah, this is a gimmick that will almost never work on an opponent that had some experience of it, like the murder sword.

You either fail the 3+ roll and your opponent will nuke the unit as you more or less removed its save, or you roll a 3+ and your opponent can just target something else.

 

It can be useful, like if Possessed assault some termies/gks and get a 3++, or for flying Greater Daemons, as if you fail the 3+ roll, they can instead just fly around, whilst with a 3++ save they can take on some really mean opposition in close combat. But over all, I think just about any roll on the greater gifts table is better than the grimore.