Defeating 6th edition TAU

[Vash]

If you don't have anything on the table don't you auto lose in 6th edition?

Anyhow. I am not in the mood to counter this list.

All I can say is that the list I am fielding will take out the flyers with either riptides or broadsides.

Remember that tau have marker lights to improve snapshots hence shooting at flyers.

[Aethernitas]

 

 

 

Dude, it will never Derpstrike, it has railgun range on the ion accelerator, henceforth known as BFG. Markerlights you can killl...I'm more concerned (and delighted as a Tau player) by the Shas'O attachment. With MSS+C&C node, he grants re-rolls and Ignore Cover straight up. 

 

I was talking about my termis/palas deepstriking - not his Riptide. English is not my native tongue so it may have been my bad phrasing.

 

 

Shunting just feeds him to the enemy gunline. They'll plasma/rail/ion him down in moments. DK's are just wasted points against Tau sadly. Too much AP2. 

 

My point exactly tough I can see situations where shunting DK would be handy. Maybe he wan't to keep his his Riptide on max distance at all costs and the Tau player therefore removes him too far from the pack. Time to strike.

 

 

Could work. Broadsides can't take Interceptor and Skyfire...if you survive their twin-linked Snap Shot Interceptor, you might be able to deliver the pain. I'd recommend Purifiers with hammers, you can pack more bodies into the transport, they have 3A on the charge, and they can clean up Tau infantry quite handily (free incinerators means no more Kroot, Pathfinders or Fire Warriors). 

 

No purifiers in my lists. It comes down to termis or palas. Won't tailor and atm my ACL works quite well.

[jeffersonian000]

I haven't faced the new Tau with my Ghostwing yet, so I've only got theory to go on at the moment.  Needless to say, my deep striking rush tactic is not really going to work versus these dudes!  However, Grand Strategy is still a powerful tool with the ability to grant outflank and scout moves to 1-3 units, which can net safetly by getting into assaults early. Its something to think about.

 

As to win lose ratio, I still can't beat 'Nids with my Ghostwing list.  its such a frustion to lose a game without losing a single unit!  I so hate bugs.  And now the Fishies are looking to be a challenge, too!

 

SJ

[Vash]

I haven't faced the new Tau with my Ghostwing yet, so I've only got theory to go on at the moment.  Needless to say, my deep striking rush tactic is not really going to work versus these dudes!  However, Grand Strategy is still a powerful tool with the ability to grant outflank and scout moves to 1-3 units, which can net safetly by getting into assaults early. Its something to think about.

 

As to win lose ratio, I still can't beat 'Nids with my Ghostwing list.  its such a frustion to lose a game without losing a single unit!  I so hate bugs.  And now the Fishies are looking to be a challenge, too!

 

SJ

Outflanking will end in the same result as Deep strike. Interceptor targets all arriving reserves within range. Riptides have 72" range with their Ion Accelerator. 

So Scout move is the only option if you intend to get closer on foot. 

Problem I see with foot slogging is the Tau ability to negate cover. 

[TheDarkOne]

Shunt/Jump NDKs, remove Tau with Heavy Incinerators.  Punch whatevers left.

This.

 

I played Tau last week, the was using 3 full squads of fire warriors with characters covering eachother.

 

Shunting dreadknights in combinations with shooting from terminators and razorbacks and plasma cannons eliminated them handily.

 

Force weapons make the big robots cry.

[Vash]

 

Shunt/Jump NDKs, remove Tau with Heavy Incinerators.  Punch whatevers left.

This.

 

I played Tau last week, the was using 3 full squads of fire warriors with characters covering eachother.

 

Shunting dreadknights in combinations with shooting from terminators and razorbacks and plasma cannons eliminated them handily.

 

Force weapons make the big robots cry.

Close combat in general makes the Riptide cry. He is not equipped for it, nor does he do any good in close combat... he is suppose to shoot :)

[Azatoth]

Well the Riptide and all other interceptors w/o SMS still need LOS to infiltrating/DSing units. So set up some ruins or such for that.

[IndigoJack]

Another thing to remember about tau units with interceptor, is that they won't get markerlight support, so they'll fire at BS3. Yes, the ion accelerator has a large blast firing mode, but scatter and smart positioning (running after deep striking or spreading out when outflanking) will help minimize damage. IMO, the worst part about outflanking/deep striking is that you still have to weather a round of tau firepower before you can hide in assault.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

 

If you don't have anything on the table don't you auto lose in 6th edition?

Wut. No, of course not. The only way to auto-lose is to play Daemons :P

 

 

Anyhow. I am not in the mood to counter this list. 

All I can say is that the list I am fielding will take out the flyers with either riptides or broadsides. 

Remember that tau have marker lights to improve snapshots hence shooting at flyers.

Riptides do very little to Ravens, unless you manage that 6 for a pen. BS3 (assuming you bought Interceptor and Skyfire on him) means 1-2 hits with the ion accelerator. 

Broadsides have to choose between Skyfire or Interceptor, they can't have both systems at once (only one hardpoint). So, he either has to wait for the Ravens to do their thing, or Snap Shot with re-rolls when they show up. Remember, Interceptor prevents you from firing the weapon again in your next turn. Most Tau players are going to go Skyfire as the upgrade, Broadsides can survive most Flyers except Vendettas. 

 

Markerlights have to hit the Ravens to improve the BS. Seeing as you need 6's, thats a pretty big ask. 

 

 

I was talking about my termis/palas deepstriking - not his Riptide. English is not my native tongue so it may have been my bad phrasing.

Terminators/Paladins in general are a bad idea against Tau. Derpstriking just feed them to the enemy. Expensive heavy infantry are great for Tau, the ion accelerators, railguns, plasma rifles and fusion blasters all wreck them. 

 

 

My point exactly tough I can see situations where shunting DK would be handy. Maybe he wan't to keep his his Riptide on max distance at all costs and the Tau player therefore removes him too far from the pack. Time to strike.

Not going to happen. Tau players know their army sucks in melee, they'll stay as far back as max weapon range allows. 72" is the entire board pretty much, so he has zero reason to even move the Riptide, aside from needing a better angle (so laterally, not forward). 

 

 

No purifiers in my lists. It comes down to termis or palas. Won't tailor and atm my ACL works quite well.

So long as you are delivering the Terminators by Storm Raven, that's fine. I went with Purifiers because you can get more manz and therefore more hammer attacks, which means more dead Tau. Hammers are also the only thing getting through Broadside, Iridium or Riptide armour. 

 

 

I haven't faced the new Tau with my Ghostwing yet, so I've only got theory to go on at the moment.  Needless to say, my deep striking rush tactic is not really going to work versus these dudes!  However, Grand Strategy is still a powerful tool with the ability to grant outflank and scout moves to 1-3 units, which can net safetly by getting into assaults early. Its something to think about.

You can't charge without them first getting in a shooting phase. 6th edition goes to retarded lengths to prevent Turn 1 melee. Also, any decent Tau player will use terrain to hinder your approach, not to mention boxing you into killzones for him to focus down. Ravens are our only real hope, and even then you'll only get one turn out of them (before Broadsides blow them out of the sky). 

 

 

As to win lose ratio, I still can't beat 'Nids with my Ghostwing list.  its such a frustion to lose a game without losing a single unit!  I so hate bugs.  And now the Fishies are looking to be a challenge, too!

 

How are you not slapping Nids round the table? Knights usually have zero problems in that matchup. We outshoot them, our force weapons hard-counter their MC spam, their Troops die to our shooting and Purifiers, they have little that can match Terminators/Paladins in melee...

 

 

Outflanking will end in the same result as Deep strike. Interceptor targets all arriving reserves within range. Riptides have 72" range with their Ion Accelerator. 

So Scout move is the only option if you intend to get closer on foot. 

Problem I see with foot slogging is the Tau ability to negate cover. 

Yeah, its rough. Thankfully though, 'TGS' has multiple abilities, so even though Scout is largely useless we can turn on scoring or re-roll 1's. 

 

 

This.

 

I played Tau last week, the was using 3 full squads of fire warriors with characters covering eachother.

 

Shunting dreadknights in combinations with shooting from terminators and razorbacks and plasma cannons eliminated them handily.

 

Force weapons make the big robots cry.

If he was spamming Fire Warriors he deserved to lose. Against a proper list with battlesuit and vehicle support, DK's are toast. 

 

 

Well the Riptide and all other interceptors w/o SMS still need LOS to infiltrating/DSing units. So set up some ruins or such for that.

You can't block LOS to DK's, unless you have a massive wall or something. Don't rely on terrain to screen you, you can't know the setup until the game starts

[Gentlemanloser]

Wut. No, of course not. The only way to auto-lose is to play Daemons

LoL.

Thing is, if you have no minis on the board at the end of a game turn, you auto lose. So you can't start with everything in fliers/reserves, as you auto lose the end of turn 1.

You can't block LOS to DK's, unless you have a massive wall or something. Don't rely on terrain to screen you, you can't know the setup until the game starts

CAVEAT: I IN NO WAY ENDORSE THIS!

It appears that 'modelling for an advantage' is no longer a restriction in 6th edition rules. lol. While you can't bring cover with you on your base, there's no restriction from modelling a sitting/knelling DreadKnight.

Which would make it able to get cover. ;)

[IndigoJack]

 

Wut. No, of course not. The only way to auto-lose is to play Daemons :P

 

LoL.

 

Thing is, if you have no minis on the board at the end of a game turn, you auto lose.  So you can't start with everything in fliers/reserves, as you auto lose the end of turn 1.

 

Not exactly. You could start the game with your whole army in reserves (a full drop pod army for example), so long as there are units on the table by the end of your turn.

[Brother Bobert]

I've had three games againt the new Tau now using a Henchmen GK list with one 10 man termie squad for deepstriking fun.

 

Some things that I've noticed is that we need to hammer some rules into the new tau players heads, Using the skyfire/intercepter to shoot at reserves keeps those guns from being shot in the next turn.  The riptide can have drones attached and as soon as there is more then one attached drone or independant character the avaerage toughness is dropped to 4 from the 6 of the riptide.

 

The general tau shooting does outrange our mid range and sure the overwatch flood from firewarriors can really put a notch in our melee units. Actually I had the 10 temies half wiped out in each game from firewarrior shooting/overwatch. 

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Thing is, if you have no minis on the board at the end of a game turn, you auto lose. So you can't start with everything in fliers/reserves, as you auto lose the end of turn 1.

Not exactly. You could start the game with your whole army in reserves (a full drop pod army for example), so long as there are units on the table by the end of your turn.

No, its not that. I checked, its actually the case (argh why GW, why) you can't Reserve more than half your units. So, in my example list, 3 of the 4 infantry squads have to deploy normally, or both characters and 2 of the infantry units. So, my strategy is illegal anyway.....

CAVEAT: I IN NO WAY ENDORSE THIS!

It appears that 'modelling for an advantage' is no longer a restriction in 6th edition rules. lol. While you can't bring cover with you on your base, there's no restriction from modelling a sitting/knelling DreadKnight.

Which would make it able to get cover.

It would be a restriction at any competent tournament. Not to mention very few people would play you casually if you are being that obstinate about it. He's a big guy, deal with it.

Eh...I'm honestly attempted to just field my Dr Zaius list;

HQ:

Coteaz

(100 points)

(3) Inquisitor w/'Prescience'

(55 points each)

Troops:

(4) 12 x Jokaero

(420 points each)

2k right on the money

Cast 'Prescience', 'Perfect Timing' if I get it on Coteaz

Shooting phase

Rinse and repeat

[Reclusiarch Darius]

 

Some things that I've noticed is that we need to hammer some rules into the new tau players heads, Using the skyfire/intercepter to shoot at reserves keeps those guns from being shot in the next turn.  The riptide can have drones attached and as soon as there is more then one attached drone or independant character the avaerage toughness is dropped to 4 from the 6 of the riptide.

 

You are correct in the first instance. Its a common mistake people make with Interceptor. 

In the second instance, you are wrong. Shielded Missile Drones (the only drones the Riptide can buy for himself) are T6. Provided the SMD's don't die early, you have majority T6 (even with max drones on both Riptide and Shas'O, they're tied, in ties you revert to highest Toughness value). So, the only way to drop the Toughness down to T4 would be to snipe out the SMD's early. 

 

 

The general tau shooting does outrange our mid range and sure the overwatch flood from firewarriors can really put a notch in our melee units. Actually I had the 10 temies half wiped out in each game from firewarrior shooting/overwatch. 

Supporting Fire makes it a nightmare trying to assault their gunline. It's smarter to just dump templates and massed shooting into the Fire Warriors, they're very fragile. 

[Vash]

Well all I can say for the Stormraven. 

As it is depending on getting its cargo out in the second turn it is in play, it needs to be say around 19" away from its intended target. Move 6" to be able to deploy, dismount 6", and charge on an average 7". 

 

This means that the Tau will either go forward, yes forward Tau are not gunline anymore or never reallywas... just a common thinking everyone had... Thus reducing the distance. Sounds stupid? Well getting within fusion blaster range, or perhaps broadsides heavy yield missile pod range (36")  will do the trick. It has worked for me in my 3 games. I don't need to take the raven down with interceptor, remember that. The Tau still has their own turn to take out the raven. It is drop pods, deep strike units where the Tau will use interceptor. 

 

So, with support from marker lights, there will be 24 S7 shots from the broadside unit, if that doesnt do the trick, there are numerous fusion blasters (rip tides can shoot twice with their fusion blasters if they nova charge. So in my case thats 4 twin-linked fusion shots along with 6 Ion accelerator shots.)

 

Interceptor is not a must... Tau will use marker lights if they can. Flying transports don't have interceptor priority!

[IndigoJack]

 

 

Thing is, if you have no minis on the board at the end of a game turn, you auto lose.  So you can't start with everything in fliers/reserves, as you auto lose the end of turn 1.

> 

Not exactly. You could start the game with your whole army in reserves (a full drop pod army for example), so long as there are units on the table by the end of your turn. 

 

 

No, its not that. I checked, its actually the case (argh why GW, why) you can't Reserve more than half your units. So, in my example list, 3 of the 4 infantry squads have to deploy normally, or both characters and 2 of the infantry units. So, my strategy is illegal anyway.....

 

 

 

"Preparing Reserves - ...players can choose not to deploy up to half of their units (rounding up) keeping them in reserves to arrive later. Units that mist start the game in reserve are ingorned for the purpose of working out how many other units may do so. A unit and it's dedicated transport are counted as a single unit for these purposes." BYB, pg. 124

 

"Victory conditions - if at the end of any game turn, one player has no models on the battlefield, his opponent automatically wins." BYB, pg 122

 

So units in transport that must start in reserve don't count towards the limit. This means if you had a full drop pod army, you could technically get your whole army in reserve. It would take creative list writing, and it probably wouldn't be a great army, but it is possible. You have until the end of the game turn to get a unit on the board before you auto-lose.

[Gentlemanloser]

 You have until the end of the game turn to get a unit on the board before you auto-lose.

 

Yup.

 

If (for example) all your turn 1 Drop Pod assault DPs mishap (Warp Quake/Scatter off Board) and are returned to reserves, you auto lose the game at the end of the first game turn (not the player turn).

 

 

Not exactly. You could start the game with your whole army in reserves (a full drop pod army for example), so long as there are units on the table by the end of your turn.

 

Yeah, if you don't have a special rule that allows you to deploy from reserves in the first turn (DPA/DWA/First to the Fray/Hunters from Hyperspace?) and you manage to fit your entire army into units that must start in reserves, you auto lose turn 1.

 

Why you'd ever want to do that is beyond me though. lol.

[Aethernitas]

Some random excerpts from 'him who tears apart my arguments' stating (mostly) conceivably legitimate assumptions gone bad by beeing transmuted into irrevocable facts by adding just a pinch of fairy-dust and garnished by gaping holes in his understanding of very important basic rules.

Wut. No, of course not. The only way to auto-lose is to play Daemons

Shunting just feeds him to the enemy gunline. They'll plasma/rail/ion him down in moments. DK's are just wasted points against Tau sadly. Too much AP2.

Not going to happen. Tau players know their army sucks in melee, they'll stay as far back as max weapon range allows. 72" is the entire board pretty much, so he has zero reason to even move the Riptide, aside from needing a better angle (so laterally, not forward).

If he was spamming Fire Warriors he deserved to lose. Against a proper list with battlesuit and vehicle support, DK's are toast.

I won't go into detail why blurting out statements like those feels so terribly wrong to me. I guess I could stomache them easier if you would make it sound more like your personal opinion (cause thats what it is) and less like universally valid facts.

Apart from the written rules there is nothing absolute in wh40k and the 'most important rule' makes even that arguable. Lists vary. Preferred units vary. Playstyles vary. Terrain varies. Rule interpretations and houserules vary. The willingness to powergame or min/max varies. Meta varies. Your opponents and the races they chose to play vary. You get the idea.

Please add ideas and opinions to the discussion in a constructive manner instead of trying to end the same.

[Vash]

Well I for one can say that Fire warriors don't suck these days. 

I have gotten a battle report from a veteran Tau player, and his main strike force is Fire warriors. He has a well orchestrad play style, making good use of his devilfish and fire warriors. Not classic Fish of fury, and I am not going into detail about it sorry, to long. 

 

But with three units close by he unleaches 105 pulse rifle shots. Supported by marker lights he lands around 70-80 hits. 

And of course this isn't the only thing in his army, he have other things to soften up of finnish of what he starts shooting at. Also he makes sure that what ever his FWs target goes down, as he can't really afford to lose his fire warriors. 

 

I was sceptical to Fire Warrior lists, but after reading his battle report it made me think. 

 

So, don't snort at Fire warrior armies. they are powerful now with their boosts. 

 

An army focusing on Fire warriors will be a mobile army. Taking out the Devilfishes is of course important to cripple them. There will be atleast one Etheral, find him and his unit he has joined and take it out by all means! His ability has a 12" radius. Making a 24" bubble!

 

But to get the devilfishes you need to let the focus away from other things, such as hammerheads, riptides, pathfinders etc. 

[Elric Greywolf]

 

 

 

shunting with a DK and charging the following turn if the DK survives that long - countered by the massive amounts of shots that will rain down on the DK

Shunting just feeds him to the enemy gunline. They'll plasma/rail/ion him down in moments. DK's are just wasted points against Tau sadly. Too much AP2. 

 

So, this was in some part due to the deployment of the enemy (Tau), but shunting my DK worked well for me. T1 I jumped forward and eliminated a squad of Pathfinders. That unit was surrounded by a Hammerhead and a Riptide, but I went for it anyhow. DK died at the bottom of T2, but that had distracted two turns of Riptide and Hammerhead from shooting at my Interceptors (with Incins) and Mordrak&Co. (Yes, I built an anti-Tau list for my first outing against the new book.) He would've killed a Devilfish on T2, but failed his charge range (as usual with me, for some reason).

 

I think if you're prepared to sacrifice your DK, it can be a good distraction while the rest of your army deals with Fire Warriors. Stealth Suits can be neutered by clever Servo Skull placement; in this game, he deployed his SS behind his ADL because my skulls, plus my units, prevented him from going anywhere in my deployment.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

 

Well all I can say for the Stormraven. 

As it is depending on getting its cargo out in the second turn it is in play, it needs to be say around 19" away from its intended target. Move 6" to be able to deploy, dismount 6", and charge on an average 7". 

 

This means that the Tau will either go forward, yes forward Tau are not gunline anymore or never reallywas... just a common thinking everyone had... Thus reducing the distance. Sounds stupid? Well getting within fusion blaster range, or perhaps broadsides heavy yield missile pod range (36")  will do the trick. It has worked for me in my 3 games. I don't need to take the raven down with interceptor, remember that. The Tau still has their own turn to take out the raven. It is drop pods, deep strike units where the Tau will use interceptor. 

Well, he has to choose between blowing you up on 6's with re-rolls in your turn, or waiting till after the Raven has done its job then nailing it. I agree, Ravens won't be Intercepted, because Broadsides can't have more than 2 support systems. The Raven is dead in the Tau turn though, as he'll just turn on Skyfire then pile S8 AP1 into it. Hence, Raven is a perfectly valid delivery platform, provided it doesn't die to an Icarus or something else on the way in (lucky rolls with missile pods maybe). 

 

 

So, with support from marker lights,

Needing 6's to hit. Unlikely, even with a C&C Shas'O you'll need good rolls. 

 

 

 

Some random excerpts from 'him who tears apart my arguments' stating (mostly) conceivably legitimate assumptions gone bad by beeing transmuted into irrevocable facts by adding just a pinch of fairy-dust and garnished by gaping holes in his understanding of very important basic rules.

Ah man, come on. The Daemons thread doesn't matter, its fine if we derail there. Tau are a legitimate threat, so I'd prefer to avoid...oh well, nevermind

 

 

I won't go into detail why blurting out statements like those feels so terribly wrong to me. I guess I could stomache them easier if you would make it sound more like your personal opinion (cause thats what it is) and less like universally valid facts.

Why don't you go into detail though? You obviously want to. I'm happy for you to prove me wrong on any of those statements. 

 

 

Apart from the written rules there is nothing absolute in wh40k and the 'most important rule' makes even that arguable. Lists vary. Preferred units vary. Playstyles vary. Terrain varies. Rule interpretations and houserules vary. The willingness to powergame or min/max varies. Meta varies. Your opponents and the races they chose to play vary. You get the idea.

I agree with all of that...

 

 

Please add ideas and opinions to the discussion in a constructive manner instead of trying to end the same.

I'm not ending debate, clearly, as you're still advocating ideas I completely disagree with. I have my opinions, you have yours. 

 

 

Well I for one can say that Fire warriors don't suck these days. 

I have gotten a battle report from a veteran Tau player, and his main strike force is Fire warriors. He has a well orchestrad play style, making good use of his devilfish and fire warriors. Not classic Fish of fury, and I am not going into detail about it sorry, to long. 

 

But with three units close by he unleaches 105 pulse rifle shots. Supported by marker lights he lands around 70-80 hits. 

And of course this isn't the only thing in his army, he have other things to soften up of finnish of what he starts shooting at. Also he makes sure that what ever his FWs target goes down, as he can't really afford to lose his fire warriors. 

 

I was sceptical to Fire Warrior lists, but after reading his battle report it made me think. 

 

So, don't snort at Fire warrior armies. they are powerful now with their boosts. 

 

An army focusing on Fire warriors will be a mobile army. Taking out the Devilfishes is of course important to cripple them. There will be atleast one Etheral, find him and his unit he has joined and take it out by all means! His ability has a 12" radius. Making a 24" bubble!

 

But to get the devilfishes you need to let the focus away from other things, such as hammerheads, riptides, pathfinders etc. 

Link? I'm genuinely curious. I'm never going to field that style of Tau (I love my battlesuits too much), but S5 spam is a pretty good antidote to the infantry-heavy 6th edition trend. My issue with Fire Warrior spam lists is Devilfish are still overpriced, so you end up with far less support than a more standard Tau list (ie battlesuit heavy). Ethereals give up 2VP when they die, which sucks. I assume he spams Fireblades into three units (for the extra short if they don't move) ? 

 

 

So, this was in some part due to the deployment of the enemy (Tau), but shunting my DK worked well for me. T1 I jumped forward and eliminated a squad of Pathfinders. That unit was surrounded by a Hammerhead and a Riptide, but I went for it anyhow. DK died at the bottom of T2, but that had distracted two turns of Riptide and Hammerhead from shooting at my Interceptors (with Incins) and Mordrak&Co. (Yes, I built an anti-Tau list for my first outing against the new book.) He would've killed a Devilfish on T2, but failed his charge range (as usual with me, for some reason).

 

I think if you're prepared to sacrifice your DK, it can be a good distraction while the rest of your army deals with Fire Warriors. Stealth Suits can be neutered by clever Servo Skull placement; in this game, he deployed his SS behind his ADL because my skulls, plus my units, prevented him from going anywhere in my deployment.

The problem with trading the DK is he's an expensive piece on the board. Boxing in your opponent and getting your Interceptors up alive was a good strategy. Tau players are used to dealing with MC's though (Nidzilla hammered that into the playerbase back in 4th/early 5th). I'm worried my DK is just going to get railed to death Turn 1 (a single Broadside team costs less than him and can reliably blow away 2-3 wounds per turn). In your game you managed to nail the Pathfinders first, which was a good choice (they're a massive force multiplier for any Tau list). 

[Vash]

I have field tested pathfinders and marker drones. Against flyers I get around 1-3 hits from each squad (only need around 2 hits). Then my broadsides open fire with their Twin-linked High Yield Missile Pods. This has taken down Helldrakes (which are AV12 as the raven). I don't have skyfire on my broadsides... 24 shots S7 does the job for me. I have 2 Riptides as back up and they have sky fire. 

So it's not unlikely that 3 units dedicated to mark targets will miss with everything. 

 

Link to the guy with Fire Warriors tactic. 

http://www.advancedtautactica.com/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=19765&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

 

And his battle report

http://www.advancedtautactica.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=19878&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

 

I have been discussing with him in other topics, where he pretty much says Crisis are nothing in comparison to Fire warriors. I have strong disagreements on that point. They have different purposes. 

Thing is... I am having a hard time to fully understand how his list performs so well as he writes. I mean... 33 rifle shots apeartly killed 5 terminators... Even if he hit with 33 shots, he would kill 3.6 terminators. And I highly doubt that he did score 33 hits. He has also invested 244 pts in that unit (but the ethereal boosts his other 2 fire warrior units too). 

 

And the fact that the opponent couldn't counter his Fish of Fury puzzles me too. Against his list, for obvious reasons, I would target the devilfish with his ethereal. I mean... his 4++ save cant save that fish forever. 

Reloading his ethereal into a new fish would require 2 turns. Unloading the unit inside, and reloading with a new unit/ethereal. 

[Gentlemanloser]

How many Pathfinder/Marker Drones + Broadside units does it take to down a single Helldrake?

 

And you can't have Interceptor on all those units can you?  So you can't Intercept Markerlights to help Broadsides that take Interceptor with many units, can you?

[Vash]

How many Pathfinder/Marker Drones + Broadside units does it take to down a single Helldrake?

 

And you can't have Interceptor on all those units can you?  So you can't Intercept Markerlights to help Broadsides that take Interceptor with many units, can you?

 

Vs the Helldrake I have a Riptide wall tactic. To get my suits and vulnerable units to his flame attack he needs to get within 9" of his TL fuision blaster that fires twice. I have two riptides and the both have Interceptor and skyfire (so if he is stupid enough I could get of 4 shots within 9"... but I am guess only 3 shots, and most likely he will stay outside 9" and if he does stay outside 9" he can't shoot at anything that has 3+ save of worse). 

 

Now, I am wondering... why would GK have a Helldrake?

Anyhow, in the games I have faced the Helldrake it has failed both times to take out anything useful. 

 

In one of those games I downed the Helldrake with the broadsides + attached missile drones. It took one marker drone unit with 2 hits, lucky roll to get two marker light hits from the first marker unit (6 in each drone unit and 8 in pathfinder unit). 

Once I had the 2 marks, I unleashed 12 Twin-linked S7 shots and 12 S7 shots (from the drones) at BS3. I scored 16 hits and scored 6 glancing/penetrating hits. 

This broadside unit is not a dedicated anti air unit. It is multi purpose so it has a function even if there are no flyers. Anti transport, anti infantry, anti MC's. 

[Gentlemanloser]

I thought a single unit could only increase BS by 1 Markerlight?  And if you wanted +2 BS, you'd need two Markerlight hits from two seperate units?